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spectralen

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Can Oil weight cause Dist. gear pin to break? New
« on: October 15, 2017, 07:28:52 AM »
 I have a 460 with a Mallory magnetic distributor that's got about 3 short seasons on it. The roll pin broke recently and the gear is not a press fit now. Talking with a mechanic friend of mine, he says that the 20w50 valvoline racing oil in my jet boat never gets thin enough because of the lake temperature, causing constant stress to the gear and roll pin. He is not a marine or jet boat mechanic.
 I just ordered a Davis Unified HEI ( DUI ) because most of what I read seems that Mallory pins break more frequently or Mallory owners are just talking about this problem more than others.
 I have a bunch of the Valvoline Racing 20w50 because it is high in zinc for my non roller cam.
 Should I be concerned about the oil weight with my new distributor?
« Last Edit: October 19, 2017, 05:27:37 PM by spectralen »
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spectralen

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Re: Can Oil weight cause Dist. gear pin to break?
« Reply #1 on: October 15, 2017, 10:09:44 AM »

 Here are some pics of the gear wear at the bottom end of the teeth and the pad at the bottom that I thought was suppose to ride on the block. I just put a used pin in for measuring.
 Should the teeth wear be more in the middle of the gear?
 Should the bottom pad be more shiny? Maybe it's not riding on the block and the roll pins are absorbing too much torque from the cam gear?
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bobjthomson

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Re: Can Oil weight cause Dist. gear pin to break?
« Reply #2 on: October 15, 2017, 11:30:50 AM »
That’s the first time I have heard oil could do that , from the picks the splines are not fully engaged so u have more load on one part , more sheering weight


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427 wilder

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Re: Can Oil weight cause Dist. gear pin to break?
« Reply #3 on: October 15, 2017, 12:05:03 PM »
There are two different type of roll pins. There is the standard type and the type that looks like a carpet that is rolled up. Meaning multilayered this is the type msd distributor come with. The wear on your gear does look to be on the low side, I would take a flashlight and look at the camshaft gear itself just to be safe. I have seen thicker oils give the stand/regular roll pins a problem. Some guys used to drill a very small hole in the front oil plug directly behind the distributor gear. This would help with premature wear a .030/.040 hole is good.


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spectralen

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Re: Can Oil weight cause Dist. gear pin to break?
« Reply #4 on: October 15, 2017, 12:22:59 PM »
 Drilling a hole would mean pulling the engine apart, I assume?
 When you say you've seen the thicker oils causing issues, is that on fresh water cooled boat motors or automotive?
 I want to make sure I can prevent this from happening with ny new HEI.
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427 wilder

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Re: Can Oil weight cause Dist. gear pin to break?
« Reply #5 on: October 15, 2017, 03:10:51 PM »
The plug is located behind the timing chain. So you would need to remove the timing cover and chain to access it. Remove it drill it clean it reinstall it. 20/50 can be thick on start up once it is warm it should be fine but if you decide to run it up at a higher rpm while the oil is cold it can build a lot of oil pressure. The more oil pressure the harder it is on the distributor pin.


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LakesOnly

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Re: Can Oil weight cause Dist. gear pin to break?
« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2017, 07:28:06 PM »
I have a 460 with a Mallory magnetic distributor...The roll pin broke recently and the gear is not a press fit now...a mechanic friend of mine...says that the 20w50 valvoline racing oil in my jet boat never gets thin enough because of the lake temperature, causing constant stress to the gear and roll pin...
Absurd.  Oil temps are hotter in jet boats than in passenger car vehicles, and so your VR 20W-50 oil will be thinner than in a passenger car engine, not thicker.

If you want to prevent roll pin shearing then be sure to properly set your distributor thrust clearance along with everything else requiring setup. 

Get a new gear for your Mallory, they’re no more susceptible to shearing pins than any other brand—they are just more popular so you will find more inquiries with the brand mentioned.
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LakesOnly

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Re: Can Oil weight cause Dist. gear pin to break?
« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2017, 08:13:02 PM »
There are two different type of roll pins. There is the standard type and the type that looks like a carpet that is rolled up. Meaning multilayered this is the type msd distributor come with. The wear on your gear does look to be on the low side, I would take a flashlight and look at the camshaft gear itself just to be safe. I have seen thicker oils give the stand/regular roll pins a problem. Some guys used to drill a very small hole in the front oil plug directly behind the distributor gear. This would help with premature wear a .030/.040 hole is good.
The best spiral-wound pins do offer slightly more load bearing capacity than the standard slit pins, but only perhaps 5%.  A 5% difference in pin strength is not likely in itself going to make the difference in a pin shearing, and in fact if you are shearing pins then there are other more significant culprits.

The typical range in engine oil viscosity as typically used in these engines is not enough to be a "make or break" deal in shearing pins (ie, from 10W-30 to 20W-50), and in fact the oil pump's bypass piston setting (ie, peak oil pressure) plays a far greater roll in how much load a distributor gear may be subjected.

An extra splash or squirt of oil to the meshing cam and distributor gears--particularly the bronze distributor gears--can substantially diminish tooth wear and increase gear life indeed; unfortunately it is not going to do anything to help prevent roll pin shearing.

Judging by the tooth wear focused around the lower third of the gear, I think it would be wise to check distributor gear positioning on the shaft and also the thrust clearance.
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spectralen

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Re: Can Oil weight cause Dist. gear pin to break?
« Reply #8 on: October 15, 2017, 08:14:45 PM »
 I've read other posts you have wrote in about this issue and it makes sense about the thrust and the gear not sitting on the block. Can you tell by the look of my gear, in the pics I posted, that it's not fully riding on the block? I would think the bottom pad would have a more shiny finish to it.
 I am installing an HEI and want to make sure I set it up properly. I also want to sell my Mallory and know it won't be prone to failure for whoever buys it.
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spectralen

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Re: Can Oil weight cause Dist. gear pin to break?
« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2017, 09:38:41 AM »
 
 Measured the gear at: 4.035  with end play pulled,
                                  4.012  with end play pushed in.

 Factory wants  between 4.031 and 4.038. I'm perfectly in the middle.
 Wonder why my gear is wearing not in the middle and roll pin breaking?
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spectralen

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Re: Can Oil weight cause Dist. gear pin to break?
« Reply #10 on: October 16, 2017, 09:41:24 AM »

  I'm just going to through in the spirol pin, like MSD uses, and call it good.
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LakesOnly

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Re: Can Oil weight cause Dist. gear pin to break?
« Reply #11 on: October 18, 2017, 09:11:58 AM »
Measured the gear at: 4.035  with end play pulled,

Factory wants  between 4.031 and 4.038. I'm perfectly in the middle.
Wonder why my gear is wearing not in the middle and roll pin breaking?
After measuring and setting the gear position on the distributor itself, you need to physically check it in the block.  All blocks are not the same--some may have wear on the thrust pad, for example.
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spectralen

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Re: Can Oil weight cause Dist. gear pin to break?
« Reply #12 on: October 18, 2017, 10:38:16 AM »
After measuring and setting the gear position on the distributor itself, you need to physically check it in the block.  All blocks are not the same--some may have wear on the thrust pad, for example.

  I was thinking that the blocks might be different.
  What if I clean the oil off the area of the block that the gear rides on, put some ink or a magic marker on the bottom of the gear and quickly install the dist. in position, remove and look for ink on the block? If it leaves ink on the block and has some end play could it be called good or am I missing something?
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spectralen

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 Have a new Davis Unified Marine Distributor, aka  DUI. I had to send it back because the housing was chipped and cracked, and the cap wouldn't fit right. OK, a week later, it comes today and everything looks cool, except now the gear must be bottoming out on the block because the housing won't touch. Spending almost $400 on a new Dist. because of a broke gear pin is turning into a nightmare. I researched the heck out of this company and couldn't find anything bad. It looks like I might have to send it back a second time.
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