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hotrod56cars

  • Karma: +1/-8
checking valve springs
« on: March 12, 2008, 06:29:33 PM »
This is probably going to sound really stupid, but...

How do I check to see if a set of valve springs are good for a certain lift? (0.690)

Can I bolt the head to my bench and put a crowbar on the phoker and measure how far the valve will open?
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NO REGRET$ ... Arguing on the internet is like competing in the Special Olympics / no matter how good you do you're still retarded!!!!!

                                                          1978  19' Mach 1 Tunnel jet

pw_Tony

  • Karma: +12/-0
Re: checking valve springs
« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2008, 06:31:56 PM »
Have to check it on a valve spring checker. It's hard to tell where the bind actually is just by looking at it. Action cylinder heads should be able to check one out for you real quick
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Ralph Brunt

  • Karma: +51/-0
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They are all fukin tasty. My long time favorite, "Dirty Dicks -beerjet-
Glasscutter, Skip, OC2  Nordie and many more nail me good every time, relentlessly, I love those guys!

hotrod56cars

  • Karma: +1/-8
Re: checking valve springs
« Reply #3 on: March 12, 2008, 07:08:28 PM »
Thanks Ralph and pwTony.
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NO REGRET$ ... Arguing on the internet is like competing in the Special Olympics / no matter how good you do you're still retarded!!!!!

                                                          1978  19' Mach 1 Tunnel jet

speedymopars

  • Karma: +6/-0
Re: checking valve springs
« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2008, 07:59:19 PM »
And remember max lift is not the same as when the spring compresses and binds from its natural static height.
Say you have a 2 inch spring, and coil binds at 1.10 height.  The max lift would NOT be .900!



Math is:
installed height - coil bind height - .050 = Max Lift

it's probably installed at 1.80 or so, not at 2 inches, otherwise you would have no seat pressure.

So:

1.80 - 1.1 -.050 = .650 max valve lift.





« Last Edit: March 12, 2008, 08:03:40 PM by speedymopars »
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hotrod56cars

  • Karma: +1/-8
Re: checking valve springs
« Reply #5 on: March 12, 2008, 08:01:44 PM »
And remember max lift is not the same as when the spring compresses and binds from its natural static height.

 installed height - coil bind height - .050 = Max Lift

Say you have a 2 inch spring, and coil binds at 1.10 height.

it's probably installed at 1.80 or so, not at 2 inches, otherwise you would have no seat pressure.

The real math would be:

1.80 - 1.1 -.050 = .650 max valve lift.


That's exactly what I was searching for.  ;)  I'm just not edumedicated enough to finger it out.  :P  Thanks!
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NO REGRET$ ... Arguing on the internet is like competing in the Special Olympics / no matter how good you do you're still retarded!!!!!

                                                          1978  19' Mach 1 Tunnel jet

speedymopars

  • Karma: +6/-0
Re: checking valve springs
« Reply #6 on: March 12, 2008, 08:06:24 PM »
That's exactly what I was searching for.  ;)  I'm just not edumedicated enough to finger it out.  :P  Thanks!

My teachers learned me good.  O0
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speedymopars

  • Karma: +6/-0
Re: checking valve springs
« Reply #7 on: March 12, 2008, 08:13:21 PM »
Oh, and you can check it on the engine, though you have to be really careful to be accurate. Personally I would only use this to get me in the ballpark, not as the end all be all measurement.

Dial indicator zeroed on the retainer, and compress the valve down until it binds. Allow for spring expansion at .050, add a little fudge factor for your comfort level on your tool inaccuracy, and go from there.  If you show you can handle a .600 lift cam, then running a .500 isn't an issue, but I would pull it for a .550.

You could also use a dial caliper instead of a dial indicator, but there again, I would only use it for gross measurements, as there are too many variables that can screw you in the end.



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hotrod56cars

  • Karma: +1/-8
Re: checking valve springs
« Reply #8 on: March 12, 2008, 08:17:25 PM »
I was looking for the formula, the tools required, and the "how to" speedy  ;D  now I know why I'm taking them to a professional when the time comes. You the man  :D  :-*  (we don't have a "you rock!" smiley.)
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NO REGRET$ ... Arguing on the internet is like competing in the Special Olympics / no matter how good you do you're still retarded!!!!!

                                                          1978  19' Mach 1 Tunnel jet


429heads

  • Karma: +3/-0
Re: checking valve springs
« Reply #10 on: March 12, 2008, 09:18:30 PM »
 talked to Terry Manton to day a bout a write up on push rod and valve parts rockers etc. He told me to day that in couple day his site will have the most asked questions 10 on list this will be #3 push rods valve springs and how to index for the proper push rod length his dad Noel Manton started me on how set push rod length 27 years ago  , The biggest rip off out there is to buy a cam lifters springs (and push rod, How does cam grinder know if the block is decked or cylinder head milled 10 tho 40 tho or more 100 long valves Cleve valves in 460 motors Chev valves in sbf heads they don't now what rockers that you are or can use push rod 50 long to 250 one of the(one nascar shop check five different set of rockers on the same motor five different push rod lenghts 50 to 250 long circle track mag )Noel is a spring engineer they make 1000 of push rods per day. Noel has started to make a new lash cap top alcho motors that is a retainer and lash cap all in one He is building their own rockers to. One way to check your valve spring pressure is to have a on head spring checker (all racer should have one in box to check when setting valve lash) that set over the rocker and you pull on it to read pressure any one racing or has big cam needs spring  checker and check   spring pressure all the time roller cams need to be checked all the time,
you can buy hyd spring checker on ebay for $70.00 you can buy dial calipers from harbor freight for less than ten dollars you set and hyd Gage in vice and compress spring check
compression at almost coil  bind, then you can check  valve in head and check spring seat to bottom of retainer no spring, and check spring at distance to see Wat  pressure you have next. then check cam card  for seat pressure and in stalled height this will get you close they make up set retainers shim's spring cups all make a difference in the valve train set
up . I have lots of special tools to do this but you can get by this way I have Gage's to set
spring height to tell me valve seat length from seat to tip of valve so all valve are the proper length these tell me if i need to cut spring seat deeper or bigger or for spring cups all big springs need be to set at cam specs. some times guide boss has to be cut down big lift and retainer hits seal bad news coil bind can happen retainer needs to match springs some
retainer use lash caps to help in roller walk roller should run center of valve big lift cams some times need lash caps then you have heads done by the loco machine shop and are they going to do it rite, on way if take your heads some place and thy don't ask for cam card grab you heads and run. you can do most of this with mag base IND and snap gages dial caliper vise deg wheel clay used head gasket spring pressure Gage, on head spring Gage,  If some of you want i will take picture so you can see it being done I will set up on
my motor in my  shop                                                                   
 www.mantonpushrods.com you can call Terry at 951-245-6565 or Noel 951 674 2212 like I say do it rite or by a basssas boat
and a pole,   The are at lake Elsinore Ca 92530 Birch Street Suite 4
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pw_Tony

  • Karma: +12/-0
Re: checking valve springs
« Reply #11 on: March 12, 2008, 09:23:51 PM »
Good write up Elwood, don't worry you'll get those pesky period marks down one day. Hey I understood it  ;D
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hotrod56cars

  • Karma: +1/-8
Re: checking valve springs
« Reply #12 on: March 12, 2008, 09:51:57 PM »
Good write up Elwood, don't worry you'll get those pesky period marks down one day. Hey I understood it  ;D

X2 

How come building a wanabe 800 HP engnine isn't easier?  :banghead:  :banghead:  :banghead:
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NO REGRET$ ... Arguing on the internet is like competing in the Special Olympics / no matter how good you do you're still retarded!!!!!

                                                          1978  19' Mach 1 Tunnel jet

rebel

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: checking valve springs
« Reply #13 on: March 12, 2008, 10:08:10 PM »
X2 

How come building a wanabe 800 HP engnine isn't easier?  :banghead:  :banghead:  :banghead:

X3...    and if it was easy, it would be so much damn fun  ;D

-Rebel
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Ralph Brunt

  • Karma: +51/-0
Re: checking valve springs
« Reply #14 on: March 13, 2008, 01:29:48 AM »
X2 

How come building a wanabe 800 HP engnine isn't easier?  :banghead:  :banghead:  :banghead:
it is easy, making it live is the hard part ;)
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CHEAP, FAST, RELIABLE...PICK 2 CANT HAVE ALL 3
Quote
They are all fukin tasty. My long time favorite, "Dirty Dicks -beerjet-
Glasscutter, Skip, OC2  Nordie and many more nail me good every time, relentlessly, I love those guys!

 


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