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Steinys Revenge

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Ford 460 - Brand new, runs, but has trouble starting
« on: June 28, 2011, 08:49:00 AM »
I just put in a fresh 460 in my '76 Miller and it can be a little hard to start. I haven't put it in the water yet.

I'm wondering if the starter is draining too much power while it's cranking and not letting the distributor get enough spark. The reason I say this is that when you crank it, it wants to fire up in the first split-second but then if you keep cranking it for another moment it sounds like it has no spark. When I start it cold it fires up no problem. If I wait 5 minutes after it's off and warm, it starts no problem. If I try and start it right after turning it off and it's warm, it doesn't want to go.

I'm pretty sure I'm not flooding it. I don't pump the pedal but I do give it maybe 1/8 throttle. Like I said before, this works perfectly if it's cold or if it's been a few minutes since I turned it off.

- Could it be the distributor is not getting enough power while the starter is cranking?
- Is a points distributor enough?
- Do I have good spark plugs?
- Is a 750 carb enough for this motor
- Are 460s just tough to start?

Here are the stats:
Stock DOVE-C heads
Forged pistons, 9.5:1 compression
Edelbrock 750 carb
Airgap Performer RPM intake
Comp Xtreme Marine Cam 34-241-5 (234/244 @0.50)
Comp roller rockers
Mallory distributor/wires - red cap/non-marine? (I think it's a 2556701)
Autolite 45 sparkplugs
Timing is 12-14 advanced at 800-900, 30-32 total
Berkley 12-JC w/A impeller


Also, any guess on how much power this will put out and a possible top speed?

Thanks!
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Nordie

  • Karma: +13/-0
Re: Ford 460 - Brand new, runs, but has trouble starting
« Reply #1 on: June 28, 2011, 09:09:23 AM »
That sounds exactly like you got too much advance in the distributor...what I would do is fire it up warm it up and back the timing off until she cranks over nice n easy...theres always putting a timing light on it, but that trick will put you in the ballpark
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Steinys Revenge

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Re: Ford 460 - Brand new, runs, but has trouble starting
« Reply #2 on: June 28, 2011, 09:14:46 AM »
I put a timing light on it an it's 12-14 degrees at 800-900 rpms/30-32 total after 2500 rpms.

Is that too much? On my Chevys it's always been fine.
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Nordie

  • Karma: +13/-0
Re: Ford 460 - Brand new, runs, but has trouble starting
« Reply #3 on: June 28, 2011, 09:42:46 AM »
that seems pretty good actually, but it's worth a shot...usually the warm engine and slow cranking and easy starting when cold point at timing...the initial seems a little high, but total advance seems pretty good...
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fordfan

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ford 460 - Brand new, runs, but has trouble starting
« Reply #4 on: June 28, 2011, 11:01:57 AM »
What kind of starter do you have I had a problem like that to if the solenoid was warm it didnt like to fire.
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IRRebel

  • Karma: +16/-0
Re: Ford 460 - Brand new, runs, but has trouble starting
« Reply #5 on: June 28, 2011, 11:03:43 AM »
What kind of starter do you have I had a problem like that to if the solenoid was warm it didnt like to fire.

I just went through the same thing on my Chevy. Starter solenoid was a huge part of the culprit, as was the timing as Nordie indicated.........

Ray
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"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways totally worn out shouting 'Holy Shit what a ride!"---Crewcheif22 AKA Keith

Steinys Revenge

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Re: Ford 460 - Brand new, runs, but has trouble starting
« Reply #6 on: June 28, 2011, 12:45:57 PM »
The starter is brand new and it has a remote solenoid. It has no problem cranking, it just doesn't fire up right away.

I think I'll back off the timing and see how it goes.

What do you guys normally run for timing on a 460 like mine?
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IRRebel

  • Karma: +16/-0
Re: Ford 460 - Brand new, runs, but has trouble starting
« Reply #7 on: June 28, 2011, 01:07:14 PM »
The starter is brand new and it has a remote solenoid. It has no problem cranking, it just doesn't fire up right away.

I think I'll back off the timing and see how it goes.

What do you guys normally run for timing on a 460 like mine?

Mechanically? 8*-10* BTDC seems to be the sweet spot, my experience,initially setting it up. Now there's MANY opinions about where the curve comes in and at what RPM, but I've had good luck at full advance coming in around 2500 or so at 30*-32*. I only run mechanicals. Others will have other opinions I'm sure, but that's been where I been at. A LOT depends on yer ignition and abiility to deliver on those parameters. This is why I don't like MSD, but I'll save that for another discusssion. Dealing with a Chebbie now that doesn't like 30*  at 2500.......about to beat it to death with a stick.........

But on a 460, I've set them up with nothing more than 10* BTDC and an eyeball, and the timing light, and performance told me it was dead balls on. Chebbies are Sooooooo timing finicky...........

Ray
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"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways totally worn out shouting 'Holy Shit what a ride!"---Crewcheif22 AKA Keith

Steinys Revenge

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Re: Ford 460 - Brand new, runs, but has trouble starting
« Reply #8 on: June 28, 2011, 01:34:53 PM »
That sounds pretty good. I have it at 12-14 probably. I need to get it in the water and idling and then I'll try 10 initial and 32 total at 2500 RPM. I have a timing spring kit that should let me get the "sweet spot".

Any guess on what kind of power you think these specs will put out? 400hp?
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Your Mom

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Re: Ford 460 - Brand new, runs, but has trouble starting
« Reply #9 on: June 28, 2011, 03:56:57 PM »
On my 460 I have a mallory unilite with 24 degrees advance.  I have it set at about 8-10 at 800-1000rpm and 34 at 3000 all in.  Check your dizzy for its advance, I called malloy and gave em my model #.  Some vary.

Watts420

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ford 460 - Brand new, runs, but has trouble starting
« Reply #10 on: June 28, 2011, 05:17:24 PM »
I have pretty much same set-up as you with the 460, just running dual carbs though. 660's. Mine is at 13 degree's at about 1000 to 1200 rpms. Fires right up. Pretty quick starts. :thumbup:
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farmergord

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Re: Ford 460 - Brand new, runs, but has trouble starting
« Reply #11 on: June 28, 2011, 06:47:54 PM »
almost the same setup 10* initial timing 35* all in , fires right up instantly and with my new carb it even idles
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Steinys Revenge

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Re: Ford 460 - Brand new, runs, but has trouble starting
« Reply #12 on: June 28, 2011, 09:14:43 PM »
I just got back from its maiden voyage and everything was flawless. Once it was in the water it started right up. I can start it any time with no problem. I think she just wanted to get wet....
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Horizonjet

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Re: Ford 460 - Brand new, runs, but has trouble starting
« Reply #13 on: June 28, 2011, 10:51:33 PM »
Dont they all....LOL!   >:D
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