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saberjet79

  • Karma: +0/-0
Ford 460 motor build
« on: October 01, 2014, 09:13:51 AM »
Hello all I am new to the site and also jet boats. I just recently bought a 79 20ft saber jet with a 460 in it and a berkely pump. The motor I was told had just been rebuilt... 3 trips on the water the bottom end went out cause the motor builder forgot to put the plugs in down in the lifter valley for the oil crossover... Oops. But I decided to build the motor because of this. I'm going to put SCJ heads on at 72cc roller rockers solid roller cam rpm air gap intake and forged pistons. I have an 800 cfm holley to fuel it. I'm looking to hit around 10.5\1compression. Best I have come up with is that I should be around 550 hp with this set up. I was wondering if anyone knew if my thoughts were correct about horsepower? And also if there is a possibility that I would have to do anything mg to my Berkeley 12 jf pump to make it handle that power? Any info helps!
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Your Mom

  • Karma: +20/-0
Re: Ford 460 motor build
« Reply #1 on: October 01, 2014, 10:41:36 AM »
If your thru trans exhaust... Be careful on cam choice for reversion. Its a good idea to rebuild pump especially if engine will be out on new build knowing you just bought it. You could upgrade to better pump shaft ad stuffer ext...  Build the motor for a jet. Check on exhaust fitting to your style exhaust with those heads.

Kidsplay

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ford 460 motor build
« Reply #2 on: November 03, 2014, 12:51:24 PM »
Go with an open plenum intake not a dual plenum if your running SCJ heads your shooting ur self in the foot as well with still running logged exhaust.. Go to headers if you can


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herrhauptman

  • Karma: +2/-0
Re: Ford 460 motor build
« Reply #3 on: November 04, 2014, 05:53:41 AM »
I have a few suggestions. Instead of Ford heads, why not use  a set of aftermarket aluminum heads? Not only are they lighter, but the exhaust ports flow way better than Ford iron heads. This is where you will see an improvement in performance. Also, I would be inclined to use a cam in the .600" lift, and around 280 degrees duration. This should give you the horsepower you are looking for if you use headers.
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Your Mom

  • Karma: +20/-0
Re: Ford 460 motor build
« Reply #4 on: November 04, 2014, 06:06:09 AM »
Properly ported D3's are just fine an cheaper than aluminum. The non adjustable scorpion roller rocker works great on em. My performer RPM is also working great...Have logs to.

Flusher

  • Karma: +84/-0
Re: Ford 460 motor build
« Reply #5 on: November 04, 2014, 10:15:03 AM »
Also, I would be inclined to use a cam in the .600" lift, and around 280 degrees duration. This should give you the horsepower you are looking for if you use headers.

280 advertised duration or at .050?

I definitely agree on selecting a cam with the most lift for the duration to take advantage of the potential flow of whichever heads you choose.  A solid roller cam WILL require adjustable rockers.

I have been formulating an unofficial survey of lobe centers of some of the quickest NJBA boats.  All have lobe centers in the 114-120 degree range.

Bullet / Ultradyne Cams has some modern aggressive lobe profiles that make big power and don't hammer the valve train.
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"I want to roll with my brother Joe" - Joe Bateman - January 29, 1950 ~ November 27, 2013

Flusher

  • Karma: +84/-0
Re: Ford 460 motor build
« Reply #6 on: November 04, 2014, 10:24:48 AM »
I have a few suggestions. Instead of Ford heads, why not use  a set of aftermarket aluminum heads? Not only are they lighter, but the exhaust ports flow way better than Ford iron heads. This is where you will see an improvement in performance.

I strongly agree here.  Aluminum is also less prone to detonation than iron if you are entertaining the idea of running pump gas.

When you consider the cost of aluminum heads and the out-of-the-box flow capabilities vs. that of ported factory heads, I think you will find you will be $$$ ahead.  And you will have room to grow when you decide to have the aluminum heads ported.  Just make sure the heads are sized appropriately for your engine size and RPM.
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"I want to roll with my brother Joe" - Joe Bateman - January 29, 1950 ~ November 27, 2013

nacho

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ford 460 motor build
« Reply #7 on: November 06, 2014, 12:31:59 AM »
You might wanna take a look at this link    http://pantera.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/5650045562/m/172102126

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Squirrel Master

  • Karma: +7/-0
Re: Ford 460 motor build
« Reply #8 on: November 06, 2014, 08:27:25 PM »
I don't believe that link applies  to his post cuz that's on a 351 and he's building a 460

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saberjet79

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ford 460 motor build
« Reply #9 on: November 06, 2014, 08:36:57 PM »
Ok so I am using aluminum heads not irons. And the guy that is building my already talked to me about doing that to the lifters but yes it is more of a Cleveland motor thing not a 460. I did buy a set of headers for it but now the problem I'm having is finding where to buy the water injection tubes and also I am confused on how they plumb in. The research I have done talks about being careful not to over pressure the block and use gate valves. Is this something that a guy really needs to worry about in a just above mild build like I'm doing?
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Squirrel Master

  • Karma: +7/-0
Re: Ford 460 motor build
« Reply #10 on: November 06, 2014, 08:39:53 PM »
Block pressure has nothing to do with the motor build because the pump feeds the motor water so the pumpkin put on upwards of 200 pound into your motor you just have to run a gate valve on the way in to where you build enough temperature and keep water pressure lower so you don't blow a head gasket out

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  • Boat #1: 1976 Sleekcraft Kauia
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Squirrel Master

  • Karma: +7/-0
Re: Ford 460 motor build
« Reply #11 on: November 06, 2014, 08:40:23 PM »
Oh and by the way my iron heads are ported and polished and they do just fine

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  • Boat #1: 1976 Sleekcraft Kauia
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saberjet79

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ford 460 motor build
« Reply #12 on: November 06, 2014, 09:16:12 PM »
Ok but where can I buy the water injection lines that go to the headers? And I wanted the adjustable valve train and lower cc heads to up my compression.
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daniel.sykes

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Ford 460 motor build
« Reply #13 on: November 07, 2014, 06:37:52 AM »
You can get the water lines at bassettracing.com
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nacho

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ford 460 motor build
« Reply #14 on: November 07, 2014, 09:20:32 AM »
351 or 460 they have the same problem I have a 460 n use to only last me for about 4, 3, or somtimes once n always my botton end it use to go out it was a headache having to rebuild my engine a few times every season till i did the lifter bushing mod n that fix the problem last season I to the boat out about 45 times with no problems I think  Sabert79  shoult look into it  before putting the engine together

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Your Mom

  • Karma: +20/-0
Re: Ford 460 motor build
« Reply #15 on: November 07, 2014, 10:02:44 AM »
Could you get a used set of 460 lines an bend them to the New location? As far as the water flow goes, I run my gate all the way open all the time on my bbf. Bbf can handle it an not as temperamental as BBC or bbo. You could also have the headers hot jet coated an run em dry

keithwidney

  • Karma: +4/-0
Re: Ford 460 motor build
« Reply #16 on: November 07, 2014, 09:09:05 PM »
I have a set of water lines  might  be willing to part  with. Also have thr basset t.
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herrhauptman

  • Karma: +2/-0
Re: Ford 460 motor build
« Reply #17 on: November 08, 2014, 01:11:30 PM »
With regards to your water cooling, I have had good success with an open bypass as well as a regulated bypass.  This setup allows the thermosat to control the engine temperature. The key is to be able to maintain 15- 20 p.s.i. That's how the cooling system is designed, and it works that way, no heating up at idle, and no overcooling at running speed. For what it's worth.
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LakesOnly

  • Karma: +15/-0
Re: Ford 460 motor build
« Reply #18 on: November 26, 2014, 08:30:22 AM »
I just recently bought a 79 20ft saber jet with a 460 in it...I decided to build the motor...I'm going to put SCJ heads on at 72cc roller rockers solid roller cam rpm air gap intake and forged pistons. I have an 800 cfm holley to fuel it. I'm looking to hit around 10.5\1compression. Best I have come up with is that I should be around 550 hp with this set up. I was wondering if anyone knew if my thoughts were correct about horsepower?...
No-one can estimate your horsepower without camshaft specs.  Also, if your cam is going to be as small as your carburetor and you also must retain the log exhaust, then the heads are a bit of a mismatch for your engine build. Bigger is not always better, and in fact I've removed a lot of CJ heads from 460-powered jet boats and installed passenger car heads in their place and the engine ran a lot happier.  (If your building a larger displacement stroker then the CJ heads might be the better option.)
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LakesOnly

  • Karma: +15/-0
Re: Ford 460 motor build
« Reply #19 on: November 26, 2014, 08:41:04 AM »
351 or 460 they have the same problem I have a 460 n use to only last me for about 4, 3, or sometimes once n always my bottom end it use to go out it was a headache having to rebuild my engine a few times every season till i did the lifter bushing mod n that fix the problem last season I to the boat out about 45 times with no problems I think  Sabert79  should look into it  before putting the engine together
The primary purpose of installing the lifter bore bushings in the passenger car blocks is to prevent oil pressure loss if a lifter pops out of the bore.  Short of the lifter popping out of its bore, the bushings do little for oil pressure safety in a good running engine.  So if your previous rebuilt short blocks are failing in just 1, 2, or 3 trips without popping out a lifter then you have engine rebuild issues and should look for another engine builder.  On the other hand, if you mean to say that you were popping out lifters every 1, 2, or, 3 trips then you have similar issues just the same, and bushing the lifter bores does not prevent the lifters from popping out their bores.

The most common reason for lifters popping out of their bores is over revving, resulting in a bent pushrod, resulting in a lifter getting pushed out of its bore.  Over revving often happens in jet boats when the boat operator stays wide open throttle over a wake and airs out the boat (unloads the impeller) and the engine hits a hi C.  That's not the engine's fault.

We've done thousands of horsepower without bushed lifter bores. The engine needs to be built right and also treated right.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2014, 08:43:34 AM by LakesOnly »
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saberjet79

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ford 460 motor build
« Reply #20 on: January 19, 2015, 07:29:32 PM »
Ok so the headers that I got were thru transom and ended up not working for me so I bough another set of ott Bassett headers with injection lines. I plan on running the gate valve at the the pump, that's easy. But then when it comes to running the water to the block and headers I get confused. Most of the water intakes have ports across from each other and mine are on top. Also my thermostat housing has 3 ports not 2. To make this work do I need to switch out the water intake housing and thermostat or is there something that I'm just missing in the diagram?
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angermgmt

  • Karma: +8/-0
Re: Ford 460 motor build
« Reply #21 on: January 19, 2015, 07:39:52 PM »
With basic plumbing on the 460 you should have a gate valve at the pump the a line that runs to a T.  That T should feed both sides left and right of your water pump cover/housing. From there you should have one outlet from the thermostat housing that is the dump and one that feeds your headers. You can block the third thermostat hole. You should also consider a bypass to ensure proper pressure.


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angermgmt

  • Karma: +8/-0
Re: Ford 460 motor build
« Reply #22 on: January 19, 2015, 08:06:03 PM »
Forgot to mention a basset t valve before the headers


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saberjet79

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Ford 460 motor build
« Reply #23 on: January 19, 2015, 10:48:48 PM »
So then if I want a ball valve to control how much water goes to the headers that goes before the tee valve correct? Or is that controlled by the gate on the pump?
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Your Mom

  • Karma: +20/-0
Re: Ford 460 motor build
« Reply #24 on: January 20, 2015, 08:21:00 AM »
Seen the ball valve on a friends thru trans headers get stuck from a small amount of sand.... Melted the hose an he just made it to the ramp where the boat sat on to keep from sinking. Fubar'd the hull from the ramp. You could run a nice adjustable valve up to/around your seat. Have it open for idle/cruising an shut it for a pass.
http://www.cpperformance.com/p-13241-polished-billet-exhaust-header-water-control-valve.aspx
« Last Edit: January 20, 2015, 08:23:18 AM by Your Mom »
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