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GAWnCA

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Intake Manifold Questions
« on: December 27, 2007, 07:33:50 AM »
I picked up a used Edelbrock Performer 460 manifold.  The ports were a much better fit to the ports in the heads.  In the photo below you will see a hole in the carb mounting area, circled in yellow.



Question 1 is, what is this hole for and how can I block it off?  The carb doesn't come close to covering it.  Question 2 is, would the plug located just to the right of the numbers 460 be a good place to install a water pressure gauge?

Thanks.
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speedymopars

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Re: Intake Manifold Questions
« Reply #1 on: December 27, 2007, 08:23:14 AM »
#1 - EGR port? Don't know. You could always tap and plug it.

#2 - Yes.

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GAWnCA

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Re: Intake Manifold Questions
« Reply #2 on: December 27, 2007, 08:27:19 AM »
Speedy,  I think you are right about the EGR port but my carb doesn't have any provisions for that nor do I want one.  #2, I thought the same thing but just wanted to double check with someone else.  Thanks, Greg
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OC2Vegas

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Re: Intake Manifold Questions
« Reply #3 on: December 27, 2007, 09:14:14 AM »
How am horrifide that you guys would even think about not using your smog equipment on your boats motors! You know the pollution you guys put out effects everyone on this planet! I think someone should call and report this site to the EPA as a site that knowingly spreads information on how to dismantle or not even hook up smog equipment.....




























































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Jetaholic

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Re: Intake Manifold Questions
« Reply #4 on: December 27, 2007, 09:31:47 AM »
Actually if it were EGR there would be provisions for mounting an EGR valve.

I'm thinking it's actually for choke heat...for a carb that uses exhaust heat to run the choke.
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GAWnCA

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Re: Intake Manifold Questions
« Reply #5 on: December 27, 2007, 09:34:46 AM »
Quote from: Jetaholic on December 27, 2007, 09:31:47 AM
Actually if it were EGR there would be provisions for mounting an EGR valve.

I'm thinking it's actually for choke heat...for a carb that uses exhaust heat to run the choke.

So, can I just cut an aluminum plate and block it off?  I don't know that I can tap and plug the hole because of the angle. 
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Jetaholic

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Re: Intake Manifold Questions
« Reply #6 on: December 27, 2007, 09:37:13 AM »
Quote from: GAWnCA on December 27, 2007, 09:34:46 AM
So, can I just cut an aluminum plate and block it off?  I don't know that I can tap and plug the hole because of the angle. 

Why not try to tap it with a pipe tap and install a pipe plug? I would think you would get a much better seal that way.
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GAWnCA

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Re: Intake Manifold Questions
« Reply #7 on: December 27, 2007, 09:44:25 AM »
Quote from: Jetaholic on December 27, 2007, 09:37:13 AM
Why not try to tap it with a pipe tap and install a pipe plug? I would think you would get a much better seal that way.

Well, it's on the motor and for the time being I was thinking a plate would be easier than pulling the intake off and having to buy new gaskets and then re-silicon everything back together.  I've got some 3/32" aluminum plate I can cut and make fit.  How would it effect the the tunning process?

Besides, If I go taking things apart, my builder may not take to kindly if something goes wrong and it was his fault in the first place.  ;D
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Jetaholic

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Re: Intake Manifold Questions
« Reply #8 on: December 27, 2007, 09:51:05 AM »
Quote from: GAWnCA on December 27, 2007, 09:44:25 AM
Well, it's on the motor and for the time being I was thinking a plate would be easier than pulling the intake off and having to buy new gaskets and then re-silicon everything back together.  I've got some 3/32" aluminum plate I can cut and make fit.  How would it effect the the tunning process?

Besides, If I go taking things apart, my builder may not take to kindly if something goes wrong and it was his fault in the first place.  ;D

The only problem with the plate option is that you don't really have much area around the hole to fasten it to. This can create an exhaust leak right there. Unfortunately I don't think you will get a positive seal unless you tap it and install a pipe plug.

I realize you don't wanna have to pull the intake again and get new gaskets and all that bullshit, but when you're building a performance engine there's little to no margin for error or cutting corners. Remember, in performance engine building you always want it done right and done right the first time. It may be a small headache now, but think of the much larger headaches you'll save yourself down the road.
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speedymopars

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Re: Intake Manifold Questions
« Reply #9 on: December 27, 2007, 11:49:31 AM »
I would tap it and put the plug in. The penalty for failure on this one isn't that great. The exhaust will just push it out (but still try and keep the shavings to a minimum). If you match the tap and plug up right, you probably won't even have any shavings in the soft aluminum (of course you could use vasoline to trap the gunk and clean it afterwards).
That is what I would do- your mileage may vary.
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speedymopars

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Re: Intake Manifold Questions
« Reply #10 on: December 27, 2007, 11:52:52 AM »
Actually - before you do anything - verify the hole goes through to the exhaust passage. It may just be a hot air column that the choke runs off of - and in that case, you don't need to do anything.
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GAWnCA

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Re: Intake Manifold Questions
« Reply #11 on: December 27, 2007, 12:34:01 PM »
Quote from: speedymopars on December 27, 2007, 11:52:52 AM
Actually - before you do anything - verify the hole goes through to the exhaust passage. It may just be a hot air column that the choke runs off of - and in that case, you don't need to do anything.

I just checked and I couldn't be that lucky.  It goes into the exhaust port.  So I guess I'll get my machinist buddy over here and see if we can tap it on the motor.  Damn it nothing is really that easy.  Maybe machine an aluminum plug and JB Weld it in.  :)
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crewchief22

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Re: Intake Manifold Questions
« Reply #12 on: December 27, 2007, 12:58:25 PM »
Check to see if Edelbrock offers the egr spacer that fits the manifold then just put a block off plate at the egr mount.

I'll try to find my Edelbrock catalog when I get home to see if I can get a part #
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GAWnCA

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Re: Intake Manifold Questions
« Reply #13 on: December 27, 2007, 01:08:30 PM »
Quote from: crewchief22 on December 27, 2007, 12:58:25 PM
Check to see if Edelbrock offers the egr spacer that fits the manifold then just put a block off plate at the egr mount.

I'll try to find my Edelbrock catalog when I get home to see if I can get a part #

Chief,  I've driven myself nuts on the Edelbrock web site so it's time to call.  Let me know what you find out.  I can machine a plate out of some 1/4" aluminum that I have if that would work.  Thanks for the help - EVERYONE.  We'll get this figured out yet.  Greg
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Jetaholic

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Re: Intake Manifold Questions
« Reply #14 on: December 27, 2007, 01:17:10 PM »
Quote from: crewchief22 on December 27, 2007, 12:58:25 PM
Check to see if Edelbrock offers the egr spacer that fits the manifold then just put a block off plate at the egr mount.


There is no EGR mount on that manifold. Even though the hole goes clear through to the exhaust port, that is not an EGR hole of any sort. In any event, it needs to be plugged and I still say go the route of tapping it for a pipe plug.
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LakesOnly

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Re: Intake Manifold Questions
« Reply #15 on: December 27, 2007, 01:35:23 PM »
Quote from: GAWnCA on December 27, 2007, 07:33:50 AM
I picked up a used Edelbrock Performer 460 manifold.  The ports were a much better fit to the ports in the heads.  In the photo below you will see a hole in the carb mounting area, circled in yellow.



Question 1 is, what is this hole for and how can I block it off?  The carb doesn't come close to covering it.  Question 2 is, would the plug located just to the right of the numbers 460 be a good place to install a water pressure gauge?

Thanks.
1) That is the EGR port.  The Edelbrock Performer 460 is available with that EGR port and without that EGR port.  You have the EGR port Edlebrock Performer 460.

2) The port where you want to install your water pressure gauge is where the water temp sending unit normally goes, but it is not mandatory to install it here.  Also, remember that this location will show pressure after the water has passed through the engine and is near your dump line, not necessarily inlet pressure.

For a jet boat, that intake is only slightly better than the OEM passneger iron intake; you might want to consider another one if it's not too late.

LO
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GAWnCA

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Re: Intake Manifold Questions
« Reply #16 on: December 27, 2007, 03:09:31 PM »
Quote from: LakesOnly on December 27, 2007, 01:35:23 PM
1) That is the EGR port.  The Edelbrock Performer 460 is available with that EGR port and without that EGR port.  You have the EGR port Edlebrock Performer 460.

2) The port where you want to install your water pressure gauge is where the water temp sending unit normally goes, but it is not mandatory to install it here.  Also, remember that this location will show pressure after the water has passed through the engine and is near your dump line, not necessarily inlet pressure.

For a jet boat, that intake is only slightly better than the OEM passneger iron intake; you might want to consider another one if it's not too late.

LO


Thanks LO 
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crewchief22

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Re: Intake Manifold Questions
« Reply #17 on: December 27, 2007, 07:06:04 PM »
I did some checking (my catalog is from 1994) and this is what I found...

The manifold you have is Performer 460 w/egr part# 3766
The only Ford style egr plate that Edelbrock made does not fit the 429/460 manifold
The standard Performer intake is rated idle-5500 rpm and as LO noted isn't going to be the best choice for a jet boat
If you want to stay with a single carb non tunnel ram I would look for a Victor Jr, Team G or Stealth if available (I don't follow Ford performance parts to closely).

As far as the egr port, if you don't want to tap it a carb spacer with the correct shape should seal it off (I would not make a spacer any less than 1/4" thick and expect it to seal for very long)

Good luck,  cc
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GAWnCA

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Re: Intake Manifold Questions
« Reply #18 on: December 27, 2007, 07:18:57 PM »
Quote from: crewchief22 on December 27, 2007, 07:06:04 PM
I did some checking (my catalog is from 1994) and this is what I found...

The manifold you have is Performer 460 w/egr part# 3766
The only Ford style egr plate that Edelbrock made does not fit the 429/460 manifold
The standard Performer intake is rated idle-5500 rpm and as LO noted isn't going to be the best choice for a jet boat
If you want to stay with a single carb non tunnel ram I would look for a Victor Jr, Team G or Stealth if available (I don't follow Ford performance parts to closely).

As far as the egr port, if you don't want to tap it a carb spacer with the correct shape should seal it off (I would not make a spacer any less than 1/4" thick and expect it to seal for very long)

Good luck,  cc


Thanks CC.  I also did some checking and it seems that Edelbrock only makes a block-off type plate for the small blocks.  I've got a sheet of 1/4" aluminum and think I'll try that and make my own.  This isn't a race boat, just a fun river/lake boat.  So, I'm off to draw up the plate and will cut it out tomorrow.  Thanks for everyone's help and input.

If this plate doesn't work, there's always the tap and plug method to try out.

Greg
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