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bbfsouthwind

  • Karma: +3/-0
maximum compression ratio wirh iron heads
« on: November 18, 2010, 07:33:59 PM »
Is it possible to be able to run 11.3:1 compression on 91 octane? I would have a custom camshaft designed and motor will be setup at zero deck height.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2010, 07:37:32 PM by bbfsouthwind »
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crewchief22

  • Karma: +66/-0
Re: maximum compression ratio wirh iron heads
« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2010, 09:03:52 PM »
Yes
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"Racing is life!  Anything that happens before or after, is just waiting"    Steve McQueen

The problem with America is stupidity. I'm not saying there should be a capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?

crewchief22

  • Karma: +66/-0
Re: maximum compression ratio wirh iron heads
« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2010, 09:06:29 PM »
Make sure the cam grinder understands what the engine is being used for and what it is equipped with.  They should be able to give you a cam that will make it work.
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"Racing is life!  Anything that happens before or after, is just waiting"    Steve McQueen

The problem with America is stupidity. I'm not saying there should be a capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?

GT Jets

  • Karma: +192/-0
Re: maximum compression ratio wirh iron heads
« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2010, 10:24:19 PM »
You will more than likely want to either have a smaller lift or shorter duration grind than what you would normally use, but can be done.

I agree with talking in depth with your cam guru... :thumbup:

GT
  • Boat #1: 1992 Carrera 20.5 Elite (I/O bitches)
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If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

Time to man up and yank it John!  :banghead:
Ray

enginedoctor

  • Karma: +7/-0
Re: maximum compression ratio wirh iron heads
« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2010, 11:23:46 PM »
Custom cam & proper tuning....you will be good to GO!....
  • Boat #1: 1970 Horizon Cheby powered Jet
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bbfsouthwind

  • Karma: +3/-0
Re: maximum compression ratio wirh iron heads
« Reply #5 on: November 19, 2010, 06:00:36 AM »
Would I see a performance difference between 10:1, having to run a smaller camshaft and less timing?
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GT Jets

  • Karma: +192/-0
Re: maximum compression ratio wirh iron heads
« Reply #6 on: November 19, 2010, 01:52:56 PM »
Would I see a performance difference between 10:1, having to run a smaller camshaft and less timing?


Depends on the cam.... ;)
  • Boat #1: 1992 Carrera 20.5 Elite (I/O bitches)
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If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

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Ray

bbfsouthwind

  • Karma: +3/-0
Re: maximum compression ratio wirh iron heads
« Reply #7 on: November 19, 2010, 04:33:37 PM »
It will be a solid roller. Either ed Curtis from Fti will grind it or rhp from 460ford.com. guess I will go ahead with the kit and then drop it off at the machine shop with my block to be bored fitted and balanced!
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crewchief22

  • Karma: +66/-0
Re: maximum compression ratio wirh iron heads
« Reply #8 on: November 20, 2010, 02:47:39 PM »
You will more than likely want to either have a smaller lift or shorter duration grind than what you would normally use, but can be done.

I agree with talking in depth with your cam guru... :thumbup:

GT

What about running a more normal lift/duration with a very close lobe seperation (106*) to allow some loss of compression due to overlap.  Granted it will cause a narrow power band and very rough idle.
  • Boat #1: '77 Hondo Pantera GT Jet
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"Racing is life!  Anything that happens before or after, is just waiting"    Steve McQueen

The problem with America is stupidity. I'm not saying there should be a capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?

IRRebel

  • Karma: +16/-0
Re: maximum compression ratio wirh iron heads
« Reply #9 on: November 20, 2010, 04:33:06 PM »
What about running a more normal lift/duration with a very close lobe seperation (106*) to allow some loss of compression due to overlap.  Granted it will cause a narrow power band and very rough idle.

I like the sound of this idea!  :thumbup:

Ray
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GT Jets

  • Karma: +192/-0
Re: maximum compression ratio wirh iron heads
« Reply #10 on: November 20, 2010, 05:00:05 PM »
What about running a more normal lift/duration with a very close lobe seperation (106*) to allow some loss of compression due to overlap.  Granted it will cause a narrow power band and very rough idle.


With dry exhaust this would be ideal. Wet exhaust, no bueno... :sly:

And I mean DRY exhaust. ;)
  • Boat #1: 1992 Carrera 20.5 Elite (I/O bitches)
  • Boat #2: 19' Bubble deck Jet BBC Berkeley
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Ray

Nordie

  • Karma: +13/-0
Re: Re: maximum compression ratio wirh iron heads
« Reply #11 on: November 21, 2010, 09:58:22 AM »
Yeah dont do it...my cam is on 106...you would half to run a shut off valve at the drivers seat cause otherwise reversion will be the game...i just run dry pipes and the heat sucks
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bbfsouthwind

  • Karma: +3/-0
Re: maximum compression ratio wirh iron heads
« Reply #12 on: November 22, 2010, 04:23:49 PM »
I already have a shutoff valve that I'm plumbing into my setu :banghead:p. My only debate left is the 4.5" or 4.3" stroke in the stock block. Will the shorter stroke last longer and be able to handle more abuse or does it really matter?
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Marcsrollin

  • Karma: +33/-0
Re: maximum compression ratio wirh iron heads
« Reply #13 on: November 22, 2010, 04:55:35 PM »
4.500 all the way!
  • Boat #1: 1978 TX-19 Youngblood
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Taco'd "a person or people that show up with one lake lice and a family of 50 and cram 3 people at a time on it with no disregard to boating rules or ethics. Usualy crap in toilets and throw shit paper in trash cans. Hang out at the boat ramp like its a swimming hole. Have zero insurance on anything they own and dont give two shits less about your property."

GT Jets

  • Karma: +192/-0
Re: maximum compression ratio wirh iron heads
« Reply #14 on: November 22, 2010, 07:43:03 PM »
  • Boat #1: 1992 Carrera 20.5 Elite (I/O bitches)
  • Boat #2: 19' Bubble deck Jet BBC Berkeley
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If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

Time to man up and yank it John!  :banghead:
Ray

bbfsouthwind

  • Karma: +3/-0
Re: maximum compression ratio wirh iron heads
« Reply #15 on: November 22, 2010, 08:09:20 PM »
Okay so 2 votes for 4.5" stroke. As soon as I find my calipers to measure my bore I will order the kit. One more question, is it worth the extra money to get the lightweight I beam rods over the h beams? The I beams are 300 more
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LakesOnly

  • Karma: +15/-0
Re: maximum compression ratio wirh iron heads
« Reply #16 on: November 23, 2010, 12:16:55 PM »
Is it possible to be able to run 11.3:1 compression on 91 octane? I would have a custom camshaft designed and motor will be setup at zero deck height.
Although it is technically possible to have 11.3:1 c/r and run on pump gas in a naturally aspirated engine combo, it is very tricky and not a plug-and-play deal.  Too much spark advance and/or too lean on the fuel and the BBF will detonate a hole into a piston or two without your ever hearing it. The power advantages with increased compression ratio is a game of diminishing returns, and so 10:1 is much, much safer than 11.3:1 while the drop in power between these two c/r's is not something that you will feel in the seat of your pants with a jet pump behind the engine.

LO
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LakesOnly

  • Karma: +15/-0
Re: maximum compression ratio wirh iron heads
« Reply #17 on: November 23, 2010, 12:21:51 PM »
What about running a more normal lift/duration with a very close lobe seperation (106*) to allow some loss of compression due to overlap.  Granted it will cause a narrow power band and very rough idle.
Such cams are typically intended for high power, high rpm use, and so while cylinder pressure is bled off at lower rpms, the timing events are cause for the cylinder filling in the upper rpm band to be more efficient, ie packing the cylinders with air.  Not much bleed off up there...as just a mis-matched combo as probable detonation.
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LakesOnly

  • Karma: +15/-0
Re: maximum compression ratio wirh iron heads
« Reply #18 on: November 23, 2010, 12:25:22 PM »
My only debate left is the 4.5" or 4.3" stroke in the stock block. Will the shorter stroke last longer and be able to handle more abuse or does it really matter?
The 4.5 stroke fits.  4.3 stroke is the overall better package for the 385 Series blocks and will have greater longevity, balance for less, have slightly greater structural integrity, better rod ratio, better ring pack (in some cases), etc.
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bbfsouthwind

  • Karma: +3/-0
Re: maximum compression ratio wirh iron heads
« Reply #19 on: November 23, 2010, 06:21:24 PM »
The 4.5 stroke fits.  4.3 stroke is the overall better package for the 385 Series blocks and will have greater longevity, balance for less, have slightly greater structural integrity, better rod ratio, better ring pack (in some cases), etc.

I'll be calling you in the next few days
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GlassCutter

  • Karma: +31/-0
Re: maximum compression ratio wirh iron heads
« Reply #20 on: November 23, 2010, 07:39:03 PM »
I think Moses just showed up with a new set of tablets.   :o    I imagine the waters will be parting any minute.
  • Boat #1: 1973  Wriedt Montara 23
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Also, I will kiss bare male ass in the middle of the Vegas Strip  . . .  I will post pics if I need to.  --  IRRebel 2013

"Go ahead Rivertard does it.  Take a video though."

"If you did it in a dodge it would have shifted perfectly ran a thousand miles per hour and got optimum fuel mileage!"  Nordie  2012

enginedoctor

  • Karma: +7/-0
Re: maximum compression ratio wirh iron heads
« Reply #21 on: November 24, 2010, 12:16:54 AM »
never heard that before  :sly:
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IRRebel

  • Karma: +16/-0
Re: maximum compression ratio wirh iron heads
« Reply #22 on: November 24, 2010, 01:22:13 AM »
never heard that before  :sly:

 ;D Funny stuff! But true. You're in the bestest hands in the world with Dave and Paul, to be sure! I stand corrected on my earlier post. I meant it for ME and noone else.

All us motor heads easily, and collectively, say "Yeah, go ahead and do it, and then also do this while you're at it"  when it's not us that have to live with the result of some truly unuseable monster we've built, or grenade in many cases!  ;) . I'm guilty as hell of this.

I'm not throwing Nordie under the bus here, more me throwing MYSELF under the bus, but he is really experienceing the results from that. Killer motor, blower cam specs, dry headers, etc, etc. One bad ass BBC. BUT, the everyday use, ease and flexibility of maintenance, just being able to simply launch the damn thing with many on board and have a fun day on the water is an excercize in futility. All that is gone now. Now, kids, or you, will get burned on the pipes if you get within 10 feet of them even an hour after beaching and on the water you're not only looking around while driving, watching guages, running the throttle, F/R lever, Diverter, and NOW you add in a water valve for the headers depending on RPM......Takes a lot of the pleasure out of a pleasure craft.

Ignore my earlier post liking the idea of the blower cam. Listen to Paul and Dave, drop the C/R (Mill off the pistons, cheaper than new ones if they're good pistons), use a lil more agressive STD cam available everywhere if max HP is what your after. You will get far more HP from proper cam selection for the intended real life useage, induction system planned, C/R that is flexible, and a bottom end to support the package than C/R will give you alone on pump gas. Just MHO.

Me? Yeah, custom blower cam on my Moo, among other things, but I got 5 others here to play around with everyday as well!  ;) That boat is designed to do and prove something and accomplish only ONE thing.   :thumbup:

Ray
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"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways totally worn out shouting 'Holy Shit what a ride!"---Crewcheif22 AKA Keith

LakesOnly

  • Karma: +15/-0
Re: maximum compression ratio wirh iron heads
« Reply #23 on: November 24, 2010, 11:51:12 AM »
I think Moses just showed up with a new set of tablets.   :o    I imagine the waters will be parting any minute.
Is this sarcasm?  I guess not everyone's opinion is allowed on some discussion forums.  :-\

LO
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GlassCutter

  • Karma: +31/-0
Re: maximum compression ratio wirh iron heads
« Reply #24 on: November 24, 2010, 01:00:24 PM »
On the contrary, it was the highest compliment I could come up with on short notice.   Every post I have ever read from you is helpful and informative.  Please take no offense, none was intended. 
  • Boat #1: 1973  Wriedt Montara 23
  • Boat #2: 1978 Spectra 20 460/Berkley
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Also, I will kiss bare male ass in the middle of the Vegas Strip  . . .  I will post pics if I need to.  --  IRRebel 2013

"Go ahead Rivertard does it.  Take a video though."

"If you did it in a dodge it would have shifted perfectly ran a thousand miles per hour and got optimum fuel mileage!"  Nordie  2012

 


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