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Nordic19

  • Karma: +0/-0
Milk shake oil
« on: July 28, 2013, 07:11:45 PM »
I need advice I purchase my 2nd jet boat it's a 1978 nordic mini day it has a 460 ford and a 12jg-a berk. I bought the boat from the original owner, and made a bad purchase I paid to much for the boat and now every trip out is a epic fail.
I brought the boat home from mo with out water testing it the original owner was 93 so I took his word that it ran good. Upon bringing it home we rebuilt the carb and added a edelbrock performer 460 manifold, place diverter, recabled the entire boat, added a gas pedal, changed oil, greased and fixed wiring, removed old carpet.

First water test oil started bubbling out between head and intake, water in oil, found blown intake gasket right bank. I figured I purchased the wrong  gaskets cause there was no hole in the middle for the cross over port. Well new gaskets came and we installed them the middle cross over port is now blocked by the gasket and the rear water ports can't flow thru the manifold cause there is no port.

2nd water test when secondaries open motor would die if you din't let of the gas installed fuel presure gauge presure at 5psi wide open was adjusting rear float and boat started on fire. Lucky  fire extingusure and bucket handy! Retired burn't harness and replaced melted hoses.

3rd water test boat  still would die when 4 barrels opened removed rear float bowl found rubber in bowl. Replace all fuel lines and filter tanks are aluminum and clean.

4th water test boat ran good 53 on GPS 4800rpm tied to dock came out next morning and boat had sank. Lucky it was shallow. Re floated boat towed to trailer found gasket on transom rotted out. Replaced gasket and installed auto bilge pump, changed oil, oil filter and battery.

5th time out boat running good then when letting of gas it would stall found lots of steam coming out of breather. Checked oil and white pulled to trailer (FRUSTRATED)!

My cooling system is piped from jet to a "t" no gate valve then from the "t" one hose to the front bottom of each manifold (log style thru transome.) then from the front top of the manifold to the water pump block off plate, then out the housing on the front of the intake manifold to the back of the "p" trap.

I need to know how to figure out how the water is getting in the oil, how to pipe the cooling system if its not right and if this is the right intake manifold for the boat even though it only has one cooling passage.
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GT Jets

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Re: Milk shake oil
« Reply #1 on: July 28, 2013, 07:43:01 PM »
I need advice I purchase my 2nd jet boat it's a 1978 nordic mini day it has a 460 ford and a 12jg-a berk. I bought the boat from the original owner, and made a bad purchase I paid to much for the boat and now every trip out is a epic fail.
I brought the boat home from mo with out water testing it the original owner was 93 so I took his word that it ran good. Upon bringing it home we rebuilt the carb and added a edelbrock performer 460 manifold, place diverter, recabled the entire boat, added a gas pedal, changed oil, greased and fixed wiring, removed old carpet.

First water test oil started bubbling out between head and intake, water in oil, found blown intake gasket right bank. I figured I purchased the wrong  gaskets cause there was no hole in the middle for the cross over port. Well new gaskets came and we installed them the middle cross over port is now blocked by the gasket and the rear water ports can't flow thru the manifold cause there is no port.

2nd water test when secondaries open motor would die if you din't let of the gas installed fuel presure gauge presure at 5psi wide open was adjusting rear float and boat started on fire. Lucky  fire extingusure and bucket handy! Retired burn't harness and replaced melted hoses.

3rd water test boat  still would die when 4 barrels opened removed rear float bowl found rubber in bowl. Replace all fuel lines and filter tanks are aluminum and clean.

4th water test boat ran good 53 on GPS 4800rpm tied to dock came out next morning and boat had sank. Lucky it was shallow. Re floated boat towed to trailer found gasket on transom rotted out. Replaced gasket and installed auto bilge pump, changed oil, oil filter and battery.

5th time out boat running good then when letting of gas it would stall found lots of steam coming out of breather. Checked oil and white pulled to trailer (FRUSTRATED)!

My cooling system is piped from jet to a "t" no gate valve then from the "t" one hose to the front bottom of each manifold (log style thru transome.) then from the front top of the manifold to the water pump block off plate, then out the housing on the front of the intake manifold to the back of the "p" trap.

I need to know how to figure out how the water is getting in the oil, how to pipe the cooling system if its not right and if this is the right intake manifold for the boat even though it only has one cooling passage.


Shouldn't say a word, but.... Sounds like a classic case of too much water pressure, you really need to install a valve at the pump of some sort.......

I cannot help but notice that you did not state what water temperatures you were seeing.

Also, we are a visual group, pictures not required, but highly recommended...  ;)

Sorry for the troubles, sounds like you are getting closer each bad outing, don't let it win.... :sly:

You should at this point install some sort of water pressure gauge, temporary would be fine. You should not see more than about 20 PSI at WFO..Anything higher can push water where you don 't want it.  :thumbdown:

GT
  • Boat #1: 1992 Carrera 20.5 Elite (I/O bitches)
  • Boat #2: 19' Bubble deck Jet BBC Berkeley
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If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

Time to man up and yank it John!  :banghead:
Ray

Nordic19

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Milk shake oil
« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2013, 08:16:28 PM »
Temp gauge never moves while boat is running if you shut the boat of and let it sit with the key on it will read temp tell you start the motor and it cools again
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Re: Milk shake oil
« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2013, 08:58:51 PM »
Yup, too much water pressure. A $15 valve and about $6 worth of fittings and you will be in business..

There is a crazy thread on here how to set it up, but basically, put the valve between the jet and the first tee, open the valve up and put the boat in the water, running at idle, start closing the valve until the temperature comes up to about 150 degrees at idle..... Your pretty much done.

When you run the boat hard, the engine temperature will likely fall like a rock, down to probably 120 degrees or so, this is fine, as soon as the engine slows, the temp will rise back up, potentially to about 180, but should come down pretty quickly to settle at the original 150 degrees....

Hope this helps and sorry again for your woes...

Forgot earlier, but welcome to the site..  :thumbup:
  • Boat #1: 1992 Carrera 20.5 Elite (I/O bitches)
  • Boat #2: 19' Bubble deck Jet BBC Berkeley
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If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

Time to man up and yank it John!  :banghead:
Ray

jet fever

  • Karma: +7/-2
Re: Milk shake oil
« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2013, 09:16:20 PM »
Question for you GT

with a gate valve how much pressure do yours block see?
  • Boat #1: 76 Hallett Bubble Deck
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  • Karma: +192/-0
Re: Milk shake oil
« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2013, 09:30:04 PM »
Question for you GT

with a gate valve how much pressure do yours block see?

I have OT headers so the pressure rarely exceeds 18 pounds. The spring in the header control valve is rated at 15PSI, so it gets to that point ans somewhat stabilizes.

If I valve off the headers, it pretty much tops out at 18PSI unless I cavitate the pump, then I've seen it jump to 20+...
  • Boat #1: 1992 Carrera 20.5 Elite (I/O bitches)
  • Boat #2: 19' Bubble deck Jet BBC Berkeley
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If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

Time to man up and yank it John!  :banghead:
Ray

Nordic19

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Milk shake oil
« Reply #6 on: July 28, 2013, 09:31:58 PM »
Alright I ordered a thermostat kit and presure relief kit a bulk head dump and a water presure gauge. How do I know where the water is getting in
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Re: Milk shake oil
« Reply #7 on: July 28, 2013, 09:40:38 PM »
Alright I ordered a thermostat kit and presure relief kit a bulk head dump and a water presure gauge. How do I know where the water is getting in

Why the t-stat kit?

Where are you getting all this crap from...

Oh, you're screwing with me aren't you?   :screwy:
  • Boat #1: 1992 Carrera 20.5 Elite (I/O bitches)
  • Boat #2: 19' Bubble deck Jet BBC Berkeley
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If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

Time to man up and yank it John!  :banghead:
Ray

jet fever

  • Karma: +7/-2
Re: Milk shake oil
« Reply #8 on: July 28, 2013, 09:42:01 PM »
LMAO oh Boy. 

GT don't yell at me I had nothing to do with this
« Last Edit: July 28, 2013, 09:44:16 PM by jet fever »
  • Boat #1: 76 Hallett Bubble Deck
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Re: Milk shake oil
« Reply #9 on: July 28, 2013, 09:43:58 PM »
All you need is a super cheap run of the mill 3/4" gate valve and a couple barb fittings... Take all that other crap and call it white man's magic.


With logs, you do not need a dump valve, if you do, there is a chance you could fry the exhaust hoses, the boat will then sink to the bottom like a silver dollar.

  • Boat #1: 1992 Carrera 20.5 Elite (I/O bitches)
  • Boat #2: 19' Bubble deck Jet BBC Berkeley
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If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

Time to man up and yank it John!  :banghead:
Ray

GT Jets

  • Karma: +192/-0
Re: Milk shake oil
« Reply #10 on: July 28, 2013, 09:44:37 PM »
LMAO oh Boy.


Your telling me, my blood pressure just went up ten points....  :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
  • Boat #1: 1992 Carrera 20.5 Elite (I/O bitches)
  • Boat #2: 19' Bubble deck Jet BBC Berkeley
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If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

Time to man up and yank it John!  :banghead:
Ray

GT Jets

  • Karma: +192/-0
Re: Milk shake oil
« Reply #11 on: July 28, 2013, 09:46:14 PM »
GT don't yell at me I had nothing to do with this

I was going to ask you the same damn thing... :sly:
  • Boat #1: 1992 Carrera 20.5 Elite (I/O bitches)
  • Boat #2: 19' Bubble deck Jet BBC Berkeley
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If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

Time to man up and yank it John!  :banghead:
Ray

jet fever

  • Karma: +7/-2
Re: Milk shake oil
« Reply #12 on: July 28, 2013, 09:47:09 PM »
He got it cause he doesnt want to Jerry rig it.

sorry GT I got one to come to the Dark Side mmmmaaahhhhhhhhhh
  • Boat #1: 76 Hallett Bubble Deck
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Nordic19

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Re: Milk shake oil
« Reply #13 on: July 28, 2013, 09:49:02 PM »
I ordered it all from cp performance I got the dump fitting to pipe the relief valve out of the boat
http://www.cpperformance.com/p-410-water-pressure-relief-kit.aspx
http://www.cpperformance.com/p-14351-polished-aluminum-460-ford-thermostat-kit.aspx
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jet fever

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Re: Milk shake oil
« Reply #14 on: July 28, 2013, 09:50:39 PM »
Okay last thing I'll comment is this

the gate will work they are on  99% of these boats

Both ways work and one way may be a little more precise
  • Boat #1: 76 Hallett Bubble Deck
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Nordic19

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Re: Milk shake oil
« Reply #15 on: July 28, 2013, 09:51:38 PM »
Will that intake work and how is the water getting in the oil
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Re: Milk shake oil
« Reply #16 on: July 28, 2013, 09:52:22 PM »
I ordered it all from cp performance I got the dump fitting to pipe the relief valve out of the boat
http://www.cpperformance.com/p-410-water-pressure-relief-kit.aspx
http://www.cpperformance.com/p-14351-polished-aluminum-460-ford-thermostat-kit.aspx


You don't need any of that stuff.

If it makes you feel good, go for it. But totally unnecessary, somebody took the valve off and this caused the issue... Plain and simple.
  • Boat #1: 1992 Carrera 20.5 Elite (I/O bitches)
  • Boat #2: 19' Bubble deck Jet BBC Berkeley
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If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

Time to man up and yank it John!  :banghead:
Ray

GT Jets

  • Karma: +192/-0
Re: Milk shake oil
« Reply #17 on: July 28, 2013, 09:57:15 PM »
Will that intake work and how is the water getting in the oil

The weakest gaskets on the Ford IMHO is the intake gasket at the water ports.

The water pressure exceeded what the gaskets could take and probably blew water right into the intake valley. I have seen it a bunch.

You should be fine with just putting back to the way it was originally built, and that would have been with a valve on the pump.

All that other stuff is like "High performance spark plugs"... In other words, a luxury you wont be able to tell you have. That is until it fails...
  • Boat #1: 1992 Carrera 20.5 Elite (I/O bitches)
  • Boat #2: 19' Bubble deck Jet BBC Berkeley
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If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

Time to man up and yank it John!  :banghead:
Ray

Nordic19

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Milk shake oil
« Reply #18 on: July 28, 2013, 09:58:00 PM »
I can cancel the order I just want to have the boat fixed and running good so I can get the interior re done I get the gate valve thing but it looks like its run this way for a long time with out a gate valve it dint have one when I bought it so is there a gasket blown out and what kind should I use
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jet fever

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Re: Milk shake oil
« Reply #19 on: July 28, 2013, 10:01:33 PM »
Okay your Bassett Tee has 15 psi spring how do you know what your block pressure is though.

or are you telling me your block doesnt build pressure because you think it comes out the Headers. I'm trying to grasp this
  • Boat #1: 76 Hallett Bubble Deck
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Re: Milk shake oil
« Reply #20 on: July 28, 2013, 10:04:30 PM »
So the cast iron manifold held the gasket better so I will need to install the gate valve and change the intake gasket again.

Maybe you can answer another question I had a 21 beismeyer day cruiser with a stock 454 berkley jet no diverter and it did 63 on GPS at 5000rpm this nordic only did 53 on GPS it's a lighter boat does the jet need a rebuild
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Re: Milk shake oil
« Reply #21 on: July 28, 2013, 10:06:58 PM »
Okay your Bassett Tee has 15 psi spring how do you know what your block pressure is though.

or are you telling me your block doesnt build pressure because you think it comes out the Headers. I'm trying to grasp this
I have a Pete's plug on the engine, I have stabbed a gauge in there when i built it for testing purposes...

GT
  • Boat #1: 1992 Carrera 20.5 Elite (I/O bitches)
  • Boat #2: 19' Bubble deck Jet BBC Berkeley
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If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

Time to man up and yank it John!  :banghead:
Ray

GT Jets

  • Karma: +192/-0
Re: Milk shake oil
« Reply #22 on: July 28, 2013, 10:08:54 PM »
So the cast iron manifold held the gasket better so I will need to install the gate valve and change the intake gasket again.

Maybe you can answer another question I had a 21 beismeyer day cruiser with a stock 454 berkley jet no diverter and it did 63 on GPS at 5000rpm this nordic only did 53 on GPS it's a lighter boat does the jet need a rebuild

I would think this is pretty balls on...

As for the jet needing a rebuild, hard to say, likely needs to be tuned and potentially played round with, 63MPH is quite impressive for a 21 Beezer IMHO.
  • Boat #1: 1992 Carrera 20.5 Elite (I/O bitches)
  • Boat #2: 19' Bubble deck Jet BBC Berkeley
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If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

Time to man up and yank it John!  :banghead:
Ray

GT Jets

  • Karma: +192/-0
Re: Milk shake oil
« Reply #23 on: July 28, 2013, 10:11:48 PM »
  • Boat #1: 1992 Carrera 20.5 Elite (I/O bitches)
  • Boat #2: 19' Bubble deck Jet BBC Berkeley
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If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

Time to man up and yank it John!  :banghead:
Ray

Nordic19

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Milk shake oil
« Reply #24 on: July 28, 2013, 10:14:43 PM »
Gt jets can you tell me why the old intake had 3 ports I believe the front and back are for cooling water and center for some exhaust cross over. And the new intake blocks the rear ports and the center is there but it sounds like you just leave it block I just hope this isn't causing some of the problems
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