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beerjet

  • Karma: +81/-0
Piston numbers
« on: September 12, 2008, 11:24:01 PM »
Where can I look up some numbers that are on my pistons . The tops say GM 963550  ???

-beerjet-
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GT Jets

  • Karma: +192/-0
Re: Piston numbers
« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2008, 12:29:44 PM »
Most times, piston part numbers are for the OEM, difficult to get info on the OEM because they are not really public P/N's, I had a bunch of old pistons in a recycle drum and we were playing around with P/N on them (slow week), could only figure out about 25%, some of them had no numbers at all.

What info do you need off them?
  • Boat #1: 1992 Carrera 20.5 Elite (I/O bitches)
  • Boat #2: 19' Bubble deck Jet BBC Berkeley
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If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

Time to man up and yank it John!  :banghead:
Ray

beerjet

  • Karma: +81/-0
Re: Piston numbers
« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2008, 12:49:13 PM »
Just wondering what the number reference to . I've been running my motor for a long time and has yet to let go . Pulled it out of the boat last night and took the heads off since I never knew what the motor has internally . I dont even know what cam is in it . I call it my miracle mystery motor ! I've had the motor apart before but never knew what to look for . Here is where I'm at now . Everything so far looks real good (surprisingly enough) so far , I'm seriously considering putting it back together .  :-\

-beerjet-
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GT Jets

  • Karma: +192/-0
Re: Piston numbers
« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2008, 12:56:55 PM »
Just wondering what the number reference to . I've been running my motor for a long time and has yet to let go . Pulled it out of the boat last night and took the heads off since I never knew what the motor has internally . I dont even know what cam is in it . I call it my miracle mystery motor ! I've had the motor apart before but never knew what to look for . Here is where I'm at now . Everything so far looks real good (surprisingly enough) so far , I'm seriously considering putting it back together .  :-\

-beerjet-

Amazing when something actually works the way its supposed to, sometimes your better off leaving well enough alone...

It seems like my stuff taps me on the shoulder and says "what about me", guess I should take your approach and ask it how it's doing once in a while :-\
  • Boat #1: 1992 Carrera 20.5 Elite (I/O bitches)
  • Boat #2: 19' Bubble deck Jet BBC Berkeley
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If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

Time to man up and yank it John!  :banghead:
Ray

beerjet

  • Karma: +81/-0
Re: Piston numbers
« Reply #4 on: September 14, 2008, 02:35:13 AM »
Wellllll ......... Maybe   ;D So as to stay on topic here , let me finish opening up this can O'beans . Some of you might know that I've had this boat/motor combo for a few years now . I bought it 8 or so years ago on the notion that it ran and fired right up . Score right ! Wrong , the first 2 times I took it out it left me stranded So everything came apart (except the motor) and got replaced . After all the replacing and prepping and testing and tuning , it has served me as a family boat for almost 5 or so years and the last 2 or so years they have served me (as well as can be expected) at the circle races . Aside from flat footing this mill with no oil pressure at parker and a slew of unmentionable other things I've subjected this motor outside of actually running  :screwy: I finally decided to yank the heads (which I've done before) , Pull the cam which I HADN'T done before , and see what I actually had since I never got any specs on the motor . I didnt know what cam it had ! You should have see figure out how it had a solid lifter cam it it  :D It only took a day ! Little by little me and my great friend "Capt. Ron " threw a gnarly tune up down on this chevy with great results.

So this is what I got . Please ! if you see something of concern , let me know , I'd hate to put it back together and kill it because of something stupid .

As far as I know It's a 2 bolt 454 and the casting numbers prove that , just dont know the exact bore or pistons for that matter .





The heads are 049's and have some obvious intake port work done to them and some nice "Magnum" type rocker arms and thats all I know .







Pulled the mystery cam out today and low and behold , it's a "Clay Smith" grind .





Solid/Flat tappet . Hows that wear pattern look ??? Any concerns ??? The cylinder walls look good.

-beerjet-


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Ralph Brunt

  • Karma: +51/-0
Re: Piston numbers
« Reply #5 on: September 14, 2008, 06:47:40 AM »
i hope you didn't mix up the lifters, they will have to go back on the same lobe they came off of
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CHEAP, FAST, RELIABLE...PICK 2 CANT HAVE ALL 3
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They are all fukin tasty. My long time favorite, "Dirty Dicks -beerjet-
Glasscutter, Skip, OC2  Nordie and many more nail me good every time, relentlessly, I love those guys!

jet boat performance

  • Karma: +25/-0
Re: Piston numbers
« Reply #6 on: September 14, 2008, 09:26:17 AM »
Omar ,just from the pics things look pretty fair ,everthing depends on you budget and what your going to do with the motor and what your going to expect out of it I'm at home so I cant look up the numbers but I Think thats actually 3963550 and is likely a Ls6 piston at around 10 to 11.25 to one compression depending on combustion chamber size  Tom
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beerjet

  • Karma: +81/-0
Re: Piston numbers
« Reply #7 on: September 14, 2008, 10:51:27 AM »
i hope you didn't mix up the lifters, they will have to go back on the same lobe they came off of
The lifters are all perched above there respective bore  ;) .

Omar ,just from the pics things look pretty fair ,everthing depends on you budget and what your going to do with the motor and what your going to expect out of it I'm at home so I cant look up the numbers but I Think thats actually 3963550 and is likely a Ls6 piston at around 10 to 11.25 to one compression depending on combustion chamber size  Tom
Thanks Tom , I wanna say the 049's are a 122cc open chamber head .

-beerjet-
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jet boat performance

  • Karma: +25/-0
Re: Piston numbers
« Reply #8 on: September 14, 2008, 12:41:21 PM »
The lifters are all perched above there respective bore  ;) .
Thanks Tom , I wanna say the 049's are a 122cc open chamber head .

-beerjet-

according to what I remember put you around 10 to 1 , perfect to make some power NA and still run pump gas if you keep the timing down !
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beerjet

  • Karma: +81/-0
Re: Piston numbers
« Reply #9 on: September 14, 2008, 01:26:41 PM »
For Long Beach I was running leaded 112 and the timing was at 36 degrees . I was gonna bump it up to 38 with the good gas .

-beerjet-
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enginedoctor

  • Karma: +7/-0
Re: Piston numbers
« Reply #10 on: September 14, 2008, 02:34:30 PM »
I agree w/Tom...Those look like Ls6 pistons. I will look them up for you tomorrow
at work.  The heads are +/- mid 70's truck heads,open chamber about 120cc.
BUT I would have that CAM CHECKED...Pics. won't work.
It looks like the lobes are worn beyond the case hardness.
Typically the r/w hardness should be +/- 48/52 and the lobe taper
should be  +/-  .0015/ .002 for proper lifter rotation. Have it inspected just to
be safe......As Ralph said,  do not mix up the cam followers!
Also check the block out for cam walk    (for wear behind the cam gear on the block)
And correct as needed.  ;)
  • Boat #1: 1970 Horizon Cheby powered Jet
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GT Jets

  • Karma: +192/-0
Re: Piston numbers
« Reply #11 on: September 14, 2008, 04:09:31 PM »
The wear issue behind the cam gear is also caused by high performance oil pumps that "draw" the camshaft rearward as well as the rotational forces of the lifters, the best solution I have ever heard of is to get a Cloyes cam gear thrust washer, or similar, and drill a small (1/64") hole in the block at the oil passage into the face of the thrust surface to help lube the thrust, one word of caution though, don't do it if not planning on a new camshaft because it will cause a different lifter to cam lobe alignment and premature camshaft failure...

The LS6's had 10.5:1 comp. with open chamber heads, closed was 11.25:1 (Tom's memory still works.).

Camshaft condition can be checked with a dial indicater and a degree wheel, but takes forever and a day...the cheat is a good magnifying glass and what you are looking for is porosity in the lobe sufaces, if there is any porosity at all, its almost guaranteed the cam has reached its useful life, its backwoods but has proven itself over the 35+ years experience of my dads machine shop. IMO when it doubt, change it out...

As far as lifter assignment, keep the boxes lifters com in.. you can put the lifters in the box in the order they cam out in and all you have to do is mark the lower part of the box as "front" and keep the lid on it and put in a safe place, if someone bumps the motor while on a stand the lifters could fall and you just bought a camshaft (been there and done that).

Ignition timing...go and buy a cheap OEM knock sensor for a late model (1988-1999) Chevy truck ($20) and install it in the 1/4"NPT water drain hole in the block, buy the Help line repair plug for it too, then run the wire to the dash to a high intensity shift light with a 12V source going to the other lead of the light, the light can be mounted temporary, the knock sensor is a piezio diode and "makes" when a knock is present, causing the light to "flash", its cheesey but cheap, then keep advancing the timing to advanced until it will give an occasional "flash" upon accelleration, then back the timing down 2-3*, your done, don't forget to index the distributor when done incase the dizzy needs to be removed for any number of reasons....

All of this comes from making all of the possible wrong moves over the last 20+ years of playing with big block Chevy's and having to do stuff twice, so take it or leave it.



Good luck.....

GT
« Last Edit: September 14, 2008, 08:49:14 PM by GT Jets »
  • Boat #1: 1992 Carrera 20.5 Elite (I/O bitches)
  • Boat #2: 19' Bubble deck Jet BBC Berkeley
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If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

Time to man up and yank it John!  :banghead:
Ray

beerjet

  • Karma: +81/-0
Re: Piston numbers
« Reply #12 on: September 14, 2008, 04:43:45 PM »
Thats for all the info guys . It's going to sit like this for a while because I have no money . I'll look into at least a new cam and lifters .

Last time I opened the motor up I replaced the bicycle timing chain (ton of slack) and put in a Lunati set with the torrington bearing . Think it reusable ?

-beerjet-
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beerjet

  • Karma: +81/-0
Re: Piston numbers
« Reply #13 on: September 14, 2008, 07:54:50 PM »
I cant look up the numbers but I Think thats actually 3963550
I snooped around and another piston had the numbers going the other direction and there is 3963550 .  ;)

-beerjet-
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pw_Tony

  • Karma: +12/-0
Re: Piston numbers
« Reply #14 on: September 14, 2008, 08:08:12 PM »
Now those are some domes  ;D Never seen that large on a factory motor, but also the angle of the burn rate on them looks like they are quite old technology too  :-\ Possibly get more power, flow, and fuel mileage with some newer Keith Black or so.

I know GT wrote a long ass thing, but didn't care to read it tonight  ;D But yea the cam looks pretty darn worn, the wear pattern is easily across the whole tip of the lobe.

Could always have the cam sent out and checked on a Cam Doctor, that will let you know right away if it's still in "good condition" for running/making horsepower.

How deep are the pistons in the whole? If it's a standard deck there definetly could be some compression to gain at 0 decking it or possible put them out of the hole some..... but hey it's just money

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enginedoctor

  • Karma: +7/-0
Re: Piston numbers
« Reply #15 on: September 15, 2008, 04:33:34 PM »
Omar... If there is a CAM-Walk/Thrust Wear issue, ISKY Makes a "ANTI-CAM WALK ASSY"
to correct that.........I have machined blocks for them and they work great...Beats scrapping the BLOCK.

AS far as those pistons;  they cross over to a  "TRW  L-2349 ".
They are designed for closed chamber heads, but can be used for open chamber heads too
so long is clearances are checked .  They are L-S6/454 pistons and w/118cc heads
they will get you +/-  10:1 c/r.....so long as all the math is correct.
Good luck and take your time. ;)
  • Boat #1: 1970 Horizon Cheby powered Jet
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beerjet

  • Karma: +81/-0
Re: Piston numbers
« Reply #16 on: September 16, 2008, 05:30:27 PM »
AS far as those pistons;  they cross over to a  "TRW  L-2349 ".
They are designed for closed chamber heads, but can be used for open chamber heads too
so long is clearances are checked .  They are L-S6/454 pistons and w/118cc heads
they will get you +/-  10:1 c/r.....so long as all the math is correct.
Good luck and take your time. ;)

Thanks Dave ! I was cross referencing your numbers on another site and your about right fukin on !

What kind of numbers should a combo like this make ?

850dp
team G intake
049 oval port heads
10:1 comp
Solid flat tappet
Cam #'s 304 258@.050
106 lc
.615 lift
454 cid

I really liked it for a long time and may consider building this motor again for my cruiser .

-beerjet-
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pw_Tony

  • Karma: +12/-0
Re: Piston numbers
« Reply #17 on: September 16, 2008, 05:35:05 PM »
Mid 500's I would say.... What impeller are you running?
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beerjet

  • Karma: +81/-0
Re: Piston numbers
« Reply #18 on: September 16, 2008, 05:40:03 PM »
Mid 500's I would say.... What impeller are you running?
SS A

-beerjet-
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pw_Tony

  • Karma: +12/-0
Re: Piston numbers
« Reply #19 on: September 16, 2008, 05:42:41 PM »
SS A

-beerjet-

I would say that's a little much duartion for that impeller, what lobe seperation is it?

Would you consider cutting down the impeller for a little more Rpm?

JMO
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beerjet

  • Karma: +81/-0
Re: Piston numbers
« Reply #20 on: September 16, 2008, 05:45:04 PM »
I would say that's a little much duartion for that impeller, what lobe seperation is it?

Would you consider cutting down the impeller for a little more Rpm?

JMO
106 . As worn as the motor was , it was only turning 5k

-beerjet-
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  • Karma: +12/-0
Re: Piston numbers
« Reply #21 on: September 16, 2008, 05:47:51 PM »
106 . As worn as the motor was , it was only turning 5k

-beerjet-

106 is an interesting combination with that lift and duration.....hmm....

At 5k RPM you're turning the impeller with all torque..... no horsepower.... Something to think about....

Have you built that on desktop dyno? Just curious..... I wonder what that RPM range on that cam is with that lobe seperation....
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enginedoctor

  • Karma: +7/-0
Re: Piston numbers
« Reply #22 on: September 16, 2008, 05:54:40 PM »


Food for thought.... Consider   "4.310x2bore"   x   "4.250  Stroke "  x 6.283.=    "496/c.i.d."

Remember.... Rotating assy will have to be clearanced/etc.

Fairly  inexpensive short block assy,   if you go cast stuff

research it out.     ;D
  • Boat #1: 1970 Horizon Cheby powered Jet
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enginedoctor

  • Karma: +7/-0
Re: Piston numbers
« Reply #23 on: September 16, 2008, 06:02:07 PM »
Lobe separation....... A BIT TIGHT..... MY OPINION Only ???

As far as rpm goes ;D
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pw_Tony

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Re: Piston numbers
« Reply #24 on: September 16, 2008, 06:11:56 PM »
Lobe separation....... A BIT TIGHT..... MY OPINION Only ???

As far as rpm goes ;D

I concure  ;)
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