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Redeye1620

  • Karma: +0/-0
Replacing QudraJet with Edelbrock
« on: April 15, 2014, 07:33:05 PM »
I replaced the old Qudrajet carb with a new Eldebrock 650cfm on my 455 Olds. My problem is with the throttle cable. From where the cable mounts to the engine & out to the end that attaches to the carb, the Edelbrock is 2" closer to the front of the engine. Or the cable that opens & closes the carb is 2" to long. (my cable wraps around & mounts on the front of the engine.) Thus I cannot get the carb to idle down. Do you know of anybody who makes a throttle linkage extenstion for the Edelbrock carbs? I saw the Ford adapter, but it doesn't look like it will solve my problem. I need to move the cable attachment, on the linkage, back 2".....Thanks in advance for your expertise....-Rich
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RushinEliminator17

  • Karma: +8/-0
Re: Replacing QudraJet with Edelbrock
« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2014, 07:57:42 PM »
Buy one of these, install it between the carb and manifold, attach the throttle cable to it. DONE
Super simple!


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GT Jets

  • Karma: +192/-0
Re: Replacing QudraJet with Edelbrock
« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2014, 08:01:14 PM »
I replaced the old Qudrajet carb with a new Eldebrock 650cfm on my 455 Olds.

Had a shitty day. So excuse me if this sounds negative... Why would go from 780 CFM down to 650?   :screwy: :screwy: :screwy: :screwy:


My problem is with the throttle cable. From where the cable mounts to the engine & out to the end that attaches to the carb, the Edelbrock is 2" closer to the front of the engine.

Sounds about right. The Carter and the Rottenchester are two completely different animals.

Or the cable that opens & closes the carb is 2" to long. (my cable wraps around & mounts on the front of the engine.) Thus I cannot get the carb to idle down. Do you know of anybody who makes a throttle linkage extenstion for the Edelbrock carbs?

Can you convert it to mount on the rear of the engine and run the cable off the other side? Without a picture being worth the thousands words, I need a thousand words...  ???

I saw the Ford adapter, but it doesn't look like it will solve my problem. I need to move the cable attachment, on the linkage, back 2".....Thanks in advance for your expertise....-Rich

Whose bracket do you have, Holley Marine makes several different ones..

GT
  • Boat #1: 1992 Carrera 20.5 Elite (I/O bitches)
  • Boat #2: 19' Bubble deck Jet BBC Berkeley
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If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

Time to man up and yank it John!  :banghead:
Ray

Redeye1620

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Replacing QudraJet with Edelbrock
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2014, 06:36:48 AM »
Had a shitty day. So excuse me if this sounds negative... Why would go from 780 CFM down to 650?   :screwy: :screwy: :screwy: :screwy:


Sounds about right. The Carter and the Rottenchester are two completely different animals.

Can you convert it to mount on the rear of the engine and run the cable off the other side? Without a picture being worth the thousands words, I need a thousand words...  ???

Whose bracket do you have, Holley Marine makes several different ones..

GT

The bracket I have is stock factory from Hardin Marine.  It bolts to the left front of the intake manifold.  If I move the cable to the rear of the engine, buying a shorter new cable,  then I will be 2" too close to the throttle linkage.

The engine is a new rebuild in a 22" day cruiser.  I went with the Edelbrock carb because my RPMs are limited to 5,000 due to the limits of the stock Jacuzzi YJ pump.  The guy at Summit recommended it saying my low end throttle response  would improve. 

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Redeye1620

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Replacing QudraJet with Edelbrock
« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2014, 06:39:37 AM »
Buy one of these, install it between the carb and manifold, attach the throttle cable to it. DONE
Super simple!

Can this be used with the morse style cable?  If so you have solved my problem Rushin.  Thanks....-Rich
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RushinEliminator17

  • Karma: +8/-0
Re: Replacing QudraJet with Edelbrock
« Reply #5 on: April 16, 2014, 07:42:02 AM »

Can this be used with the morse style cable?  If so you have solved my problem Rushin.  Thanks....-Rich

Yes, I use those with morse cables ALL the time. If you search on eBay, there's sellers who sell them with the square style fork, for other cables. The clamp you want is a hinge, the cable slides in at the 1/8" channel and the hinge locks the cable in place.
If you need a picture explanation, just let me know, I'll take a picture of one I have at the shop.


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MPKardell

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Replacing QudraJet with Edelbrock
« Reply #6 on: April 16, 2014, 09:34:14 AM »
My 2 cts: Return it to Summit.  You're going to need a bigger carb for the Olds.  Throttle response isn't an issue with a jet boat.  Go with a double-pumper 850 Holley or Quickfuel (marine versions).
  • Boat #1: 1991 Dana 22' day cruiser
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GeneralLee

  • Karma: +10/-0
Re: Replacing QudraJet with Edelbrock
« Reply #7 on: April 16, 2014, 10:17:50 AM »
Buy one of these, install it between the carb and manifold, attach the throttle cable to it. DONE
Super simple!


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I have one of those laying around. If you want it it's your bro. I also have a 750 Edelbrock sitting around that's got a fresh rebuild. You can have the bracket for free.



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RushinEliminator17

  • Karma: +8/-0
Re: Replacing QudraJet with Edelbrock
« Reply #8 on: April 16, 2014, 11:16:18 AM »
I agree with larger carb... Seen many olds run super lean because of small carbs...
Only a matter of time until you change to a larger carb. It's inevitable.

The change will come sooner than later with your large boat.



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Redeye1620

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Replacing QudraJet with Edelbrock
« Reply #9 on: April 19, 2014, 09:04:49 AM »
I agree with larger carb... Seen many olds run super lean because of small carbs...
Only a matter of time until you change to a larger carb. It's inevitable.

The change will come sooner than later with your large boat.



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Thanks for the offer.  But I think I solved the problem with a "cable extenstion" from Elderbrock. 

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00062YA9E/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I may take you up on the carb offer.  What are you asking, &  include shipping to 95677.

 Thanks to all who enlightened me....-Rich
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GeneralLee

  • Karma: +10/-0
Re: Replacing QudraJet with Edelbrock
« Reply #10 on: April 19, 2014, 07:32:03 PM »
150 bucks. With the bracket.


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lbhsbz

  • Karma: +29/-1
Re: Replacing QudraJet with Edelbrock
« Reply #11 on: April 20, 2014, 04:43:23 PM »

I agree with larger carb... Seen many olds run super lean because of small carbs...


Can you explain how a carb with less airflow capability runs leaner than one that can flow more air?
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GT Jets

  • Karma: +192/-0
Re: Replacing QudraJet with Edelbrock
« Reply #12 on: April 20, 2014, 04:51:56 PM »
Can you explain how a carb with less airflow capability runs leaner than one that can flow more air?

All ears here too...  ;)
  • Boat #1: 1992 Carrera 20.5 Elite (I/O bitches)
  • Boat #2: 19' Bubble deck Jet BBC Berkeley
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If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

Time to man up and yank it John!  :banghead:
Ray

RushinEliminator17

  • Karma: +8/-0
Re: Replacing QudraJet with Edelbrock
« Reply #13 on: April 20, 2014, 05:02:11 PM »

Can you explain how a carb with less airflow capability runs leaner than one that can flow more air?

Smaller carb, smaller supplied  jets...smaller jets less fuel. Less fuel=lean!

Flow chart off?



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GT Jets

  • Karma: +192/-0
Re: Replacing QudraJet with Edelbrock
« Reply #14 on: April 20, 2014, 05:18:03 PM »
Smaller carb, smaller supplied  jets...smaller jets less fuel. Less fuel=lean!

Flow chart off?



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Sorry no.

The only reason a smaller carburetor will run lean is if it was never jetted correctly to start with.

I would have an easier time believing there was an un-adjustable lean is when the carburetor is "too large". Insufficient velocity and incorrect venturi nozzles would be the cause. Smaller venturi, higher velocity, more fuel.

There should be zero issues meeting stoichiometric mixtures with a little bitty..

GT
  • Boat #1: 1992 Carrera 20.5 Elite (I/O bitches)
  • Boat #2: 19' Bubble deck Jet BBC Berkeley
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If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

Time to man up and yank it John!  :banghead:
Ray

RushinEliminator17

  • Karma: +8/-0
Re: Replacing QudraJet with Edelbrock
« Reply #15 on: April 20, 2014, 06:06:30 PM »



Sorry no.

The only reason a smaller carburetor will run lean is if it was never jetted correctly to start with.

I would have an easier time believing there was an un-adjustable lean is when the carburetor is "too large". Insufficient velocity and incorrect venturi nozzles would be the cause. Smaller venturi, higher velocity, more fuel.

There should be zero issues meeting stoichiometric mixtures with a little bitty..

GT

I don't remember the op saying he had a correctly jetted 650 carb, did I miss something?

GT, I disagree with you...wouldn't be the first time.




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  • Karma: +192/-0
Re: Replacing QudraJet with Edelbrock
« Reply #16 on: April 20, 2014, 06:17:42 PM »
I don't remember the op saying he had a correctly jetted 650 carb, did I miss something?

GT, I disagree with you...wouldn't be the first time.




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Then how does a restrictor plate engine run like it's scared... They don't lean out.  ;)

I love it when people disagree with me... No really I do.

Did you notice you didn't back it up?

If I pull a carburetor off of a properly running four cylinder houseboat motor and bolted it to a 496 Chevy, all things being equal, it will not run lean. But it sure will be anemic.

GT
  • Boat #1: 1992 Carrera 20.5 Elite (I/O bitches)
  • Boat #2: 19' Bubble deck Jet BBC Berkeley
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If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

Time to man up and yank it John!  :banghead:
Ray

RushinEliminator17

  • Karma: +8/-0
Re: Replacing QudraJet with Edelbrock
« Reply #17 on: April 20, 2014, 06:38:10 PM »

Then how does a restrictor plate engine run like it's scared... They don't lean out.  ;)

I love it when people disagree with me... No really I do.

Did you notice you didn't back it up?

If I pull a carburetor off of a properly running four cylinder houseboat motor and bolted it to a 496 Chevy, all things being equal, it will not run lean. But it sure will be anemic.

GT

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/auto-racing/nascar/nascar-basics/nascar-safety4.htm

This article states points contrary to what you indicate.

Also, don't know if you noticed, I don't post here much...especially in terms of in depth subjects such as this one...I don't need to write out a lengthy explanation of my view point ( like others do ) for you or any else  to immediately jump to a conclusion that isn't factual!

Truthfully,  you know as well I I do, that an out of the box afb 650 will not run right on a 455 in a heavy jet boat. Call it anemic if you'd like...


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GT Jets

  • Karma: +192/-0
Re: Replacing QudraJet with Edelbrock
« Reply #18 on: April 20, 2014, 06:47:07 PM »
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/auto-racing/nascar/nascar-basics/nascar-safety4.htm

This article states points contrary to what you indicate.

Also, don't know if you noticed, I don't post here much...especially in terms of in depth subjects such as this one...I don't need to write out a lengthy explanation of my view point ( like others do ) for you or any else  to immediately jump to a conclusion that isn't factual!

Truthfully,  you know as well I I do, that an out of the box afb 650 will not run right on a 455 in a heavy jet boat. Call it anemic if you'd like...


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Well I hate to say it, but your link 100% confirms what I just said. " Restrictor plates are placed between the carburetor and the intake manifold to reduce the flow of air and fuel into the engine's combustion chamber, thus reducing horsepower and speed."

Did I say or do something to piss you off?


For the record, the air flow "pulls" the fuel into the engine, less air, less fuel. I have a pretty good understanding of how a carburetor works. For that matter EFI. I was not saying a 650 CFM carburetor was the right choice on a 455, what I did say was that it will not run lean.

I also piggy backed onto what  lbhsbz stated, you're not pissing in his Corn Flakes...  :-\ WTF?

GT

  • Boat #1: 1992 Carrera 20.5 Elite (I/O bitches)
  • Boat #2: 19' Bubble deck Jet BBC Berkeley
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If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

Time to man up and yank it John!  :banghead:
Ray

GT Jets

  • Karma: +192/-0
Re: Replacing QudraJet with Edelbrock
« Reply #19 on: April 20, 2014, 06:52:10 PM »
Also too, I type almost as fast as I can talk, so that's why you get to experience verbal vomit at times.
  • Boat #1: 1992 Carrera 20.5 Elite (I/O bitches)
  • Boat #2: 19' Bubble deck Jet BBC Berkeley
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If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

Time to man up and yank it John!  :banghead:
Ray

RushinEliminator17

  • Karma: +8/-0
Re: Replacing QudraJet with Edelbrock
« Reply #20 on: April 20, 2014, 06:57:17 PM »

Well I hate to say it, but your link 100% confirms what I just said. " Restrictor plates are placed between the carburetor and the intake manifold to reduce the flow of air and fuel into the engine's combustion chamber, thus reducing horsepower and speed."

Did I say or do something to piss you off?


For the record, the air flow "pulls" the fuel into the engine, less air, less fuel. I have a pretty good understanding of how a carburetor works. For that matter EFI. I was not saying a 650 CFM carburetor was the right choice on a 455, what I did say was that it will not run lean.

I also piggy backed onto what  lbhsbz stated, you're not pissing in his Corn Flakes...  :- WTF?

GT

GT, your not pissing me off...

You said that restrictor plate engines run like they are scared...
My understanding of that analogy is " fast"
Reducing horsepower and speed is quite opposite, no?

Also, what makes a 650cfm carb a wrong choice for a 455?





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RushinEliminator17

  • Karma: +8/-0
Re: Replacing QudraJet with Edelbrock
« Reply #21 on: April 20, 2014, 06:58:53 PM »

Also too, I type almost as fast as I can talk, so that's why you get to experience verbal vomit at times.

Wish I could do that!! By the time I write one sentence, I have to correct it 10 times and loose the rest of what I am trying to express


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rush1

  • Karma: +18/-0
Re: Replacing QudraJet with Edelbrock
« Reply #22 on: April 20, 2014, 07:03:41 PM »
Then how does a restrictor plate engine run like it's scared... They don't lean out.  ;)

I love it when people disagree with me... No really I do.

Did you notice you didn't back it up?

If I pull a carburetor off of a properly running four cylinder houseboat motor and bolted it to a 496 Chevy, all things being equal, it will not run lean. But it sure will be anemic.

GT
lol make one hell of a governor on a 496 air pump

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  • Karma: +192/-0
Re: Replacing QudraJet with Edelbrock
« Reply #23 on: April 20, 2014, 07:08:00 PM »
Wish I could do that!! By the time I write one sentence, I have to correct it 10 times and loose the rest of what I am trying to express


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I virtually type for a living sometimes writing 20 page reports on equipment condition and all my work orders are all via computer.

I also do a bit of DDC programming and play with computers days at a time.

What I was saying about the restrictor plate engines running like they are scared, I was basically speaking in terms of they run the same, but with less airflow, that also reduces the fuel flow, the only thing that happens is they make less poo poo... But they do not lean out.

The reason a 650 CFM carburetor is the wrong choice IMHO is that it will be under carbureted for the hp requirements of the jet pump. An automotive engine will seldom if ever see 5,000 RPM for hours at a time. Which is why it would perfectly fine for a station wagon.

The idea on sizing a carburetor on a jet is to lower the manifold pressure enough to keep the VE at it's maximum point possible. The closer to atmospheric pressure you get on a WOT motor, the higher the volumetric efficiency.

Hope that came out right. :(
  • Boat #1: 1992 Carrera 20.5 Elite (I/O bitches)
  • Boat #2: 19' Bubble deck Jet BBC Berkeley
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If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

Time to man up and yank it John!  :banghead:
Ray

RushinEliminator17

  • Karma: +8/-0
Re: Replacing QudraJet with Edelbrock
« Reply #24 on: April 20, 2014, 07:32:46 PM »

I virtually type for a living sometimes writing 20 page reports on equipment condition and all my work orders are all via computer.

I also do a bit of DDC programming and play with computers days at a time.

What I was saying about the restrictor plate engines running like they are scared, I was basically speaking in terms of they run the same, but with less airflow, that also reduces the fuel flow, the only thing that happens is they make less poo poo... But they do not lean out.

The reason a 650 CFM carburetor is the wrong choice IMHO is that it will be under carbureted for the hp requirements of the jet pump. An automotive engine will seldom if ever see 5,000 RPM for hours at a time. Which is why it would perfectly fine for a station wagon.

The idea on sizing a carburetor on a jet is to lower the manifold pressure enough to keep the VE at it's maximum point possible. The closer to atmospheric pressure you get on a WOT motor, the higher the volumetric efficiency.






I'm mostly on my phone typing, so it's not as convenient as an actual keyboard...not that a keyboard for is much better 😜

Let's agree to disagree. I'm sure one day when we meet in person, we can discuss in more detail...

Iv had two customers whose motors had burnt valves... Both times they were running 600cfm carbs.
With my experience, I blame the carbs in both instances.






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