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NoRestraint

  • Karma: +0/-0
WOT 3800 RPM
« on: September 14, 2011, 04:01:11 PM »
Ok so I was out at the lake today with my new fuel pump and bassett t-valve, everything works beautifully. However I am only reaching 3800 RPM at WOT and then I start to lose power. Any Ideas? I am running 9 lbs. for fuel, it's the holley black pump so fuel supply shouldn't be the issue. I don't know haha :banghead:
  • Boat #1: 1987 Sleekcraft SST
  • Boat #2: 2001 F350 PSD 7.3
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ka0tyk

  • Karma: +30/-0
Re: WOT 3800 RPM
« Reply #1 on: September 14, 2011, 04:44:51 PM »
how do the plugs look?  hows your fuel pressure at WOT?  i have a gauge on my fuel rail and i just sit back there while my gf floors the gogo pedal. 
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flatjetinc

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: WOT 3800 RPM
« Reply #2 on: September 14, 2011, 04:52:27 PM »
I would check the jets on your secondarys/back bowel on holley. Sounds like a stuck jets or float in a back bowel. Just my newbie opinion.
 :beer:
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mobboss

  • Karma: +15/-0
Re: WOT 3800 RPM
« Reply #3 on: September 14, 2011, 05:47:05 PM »
ok if i were you i would look at what ive done, and then ask was it running right before i started???? if the answer is no . well ... look the first thing as a mechanic your taught is to see if someone has been in there before if not then move on. it could be a lot of things. well good luck.
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NoRestraint

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: WOT 3800 RPM
« Reply #4 on: September 14, 2011, 06:28:49 PM »
Ok it runs the same as when I got it pretty much. Here are some pictures of the plugs
  • Boat #1: 1987 Sleekcraft SST
  • Boat #2: 2001 F350 PSD 7.3
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NoRestraint

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: WOT 3800 RPM
« Reply #5 on: September 14, 2011, 06:31:45 PM »
oh and who has the fastest reaction time to tell me what's wrong with this picture hahahah oh man :screwy:
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NoRestraint

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: WOT 3800 RPM
« Reply #6 on: September 14, 2011, 06:32:48 PM »
I would check the jets on your secondarys/back bowel on holley. Sounds like a stuck jets or float in a back bowel. Just my newbie opinion.
 :beer:
This will be fun because I have never worked on a carb before :thumbup:
  • Boat #1: 1987 Sleekcraft SST
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mobboss

  • Karma: +15/-0
Re: WOT 3800 RPM
« Reply #7 on: September 14, 2011, 06:42:57 PM »
ok it looks a little lean, so lets start with the carb, well the throttle linkage make sure that when you press the gas pedal all the way down that the carb opens all the way. start with the easy stuff first!!!!! oh what size carb do you have and do you know what jets you have??????
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simidan

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Re: WOT 3800 RPM
« Reply #8 on: September 14, 2011, 06:44:31 PM »
Is it just me or is that 45 a little short?
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NoRestraint

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Re: WOT 3800 RPM
« Reply #9 on: September 14, 2011, 07:08:41 PM »
Is it just me or is that 45 a little short?
ding ding we have a winner haha, Hmm I'm not that big of a motor guy yet but aren't all the spark plugs supposed to be the same? :screwy:
  • Boat #1: 1987 Sleekcraft SST
  • Boat #2: 2001 F350 PSD 7.3
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NoRestraint

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: WOT 3800 RPM
« Reply #10 on: September 14, 2011, 07:12:39 PM »
ok it looks a little lean, so lets start with the carb, well the throttle linkage make sure that when you press the gas pedal all the way down that the carb opens all the way. start with the easy stuff first!!!!! oh what size carb do you have and do you know what jets you have??????
  it's a holley 4150 750 cfm. I think I have to continue this project tomorrow since I am running out of light. I'm gonna run up to kragen and at least throw some new plugs in. For an 86' 454 the ac delco plugs should be R44T with a .045 gap right?
  • Boat #1: 1987 Sleekcraft SST
  • Boat #2: 2001 F350 PSD 7.3
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IRRebel

  • Karma: +16/-0
Re: WOT 3800 RPM
« Reply #11 on: September 14, 2011, 07:31:57 PM »
I don't think gap is the problem. Definately lean, lean, lean, although 1 plug looks kinda ok, and probably some timing issues. Yeah, get some decent MATCHING plugs......

I didn't quite get your first post. It's spinning to 3800 rpm max, and for how long before it seems to "lose power" and rpms drop? What impeller is in there, and what pump, for that matter. Could be important.

Personally, I wouldn't run anything under an 850 in any BB jet boat if I could help it. But at 3800 RPM on a 454, you certainly aren't running out of carb. And that is where I'd be looking. As said, secondaries not opening, severe jetting issues, as lean as you are, and the very low rpm, I'd be swapping carbs. But I have a few extra around here to do that with. At the very least, run it, then look down it's throat, not running, and open the thing up manually and see if the squirters are working on all four corners at least, but you're look at a carb overhaul at minimum. 

Ray   
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Nixonnow

  • Karma: +4/-0
Re: WOT 3800 RPM
« Reply #12 on: September 14, 2011, 07:41:57 PM »
I have a bbc 454 in my boat and I run the ac delco R43T and they work fine.
  • Boat #1: 1974 Hallett Bubbledeck
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NoRestraint

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: WOT 3800 RPM
« Reply #13 on: September 14, 2011, 07:43:09 PM »
I don't think gap is the problem. Definately lean, lean, lean, although 1 plug looks kinda ok, and probably some timing issues. Yeah, get some decent MATCHING plugs......

I didn't quite get your first post. It's spinning to 3800 rpm max, and for how long before it seems to "lose power" and rpms drop? What impeller is in there, and what pump, for that matter. Could be important.

Personally, I wouldn't run anything under an 850 in any BB jet boat if I could help it. But at 3800 RPM on a 454, you certainly aren't running out of carb. And that is where I'd be looking. As said, secondaries not opening, severe jetting issues, as lean as you are, and the very low rpm, I'd be swapping carbs. But I have a few extra around here to do that with. At the very least, run it, then look down it's throat, not running, and open the thing up manually and see if the squirters are working on all four corners at least, but you're look at a carb overhaul at minimum. 

Ray
Thanks Ray, so do you thing I should start with timing?
  • Boat #1: 1987 Sleekcraft SST
  • Boat #2: 2001 F350 PSD 7.3
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NoRestraint

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: WOT 3800 RPM
« Reply #14 on: September 14, 2011, 07:45:00 PM »
I have a bbc 454 in my boat and I run the ac delco R43T and they work fine.
Thank you sir, wasn't sure
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GT Jets

  • Karma: +192/-0
Re: WOT 3800 RPM
« Reply #15 on: September 14, 2011, 07:46:02 PM »
Your list of things to check is a short one.....


1- look for some ski ropes, duct tape, baseball cap, plus size woman's bra etc in the pump or on the pump shaft.

2- Check the timing at above 2500 RPM, I disagree with the lean statements at this time, did you hear a "popping" at WOT?

3- How fast do you feel the boat was going? GPS? are you sure the tach is running right? (be surprised how many times this is the issue).

4- Does the throttle linkage go WFO? Not with your hand at the carburetor, but with the foot on the long skinny pedal.... I have seen some carburetor installs have a linkage clearance issue with some cable mount brackets.



To add, you did not mention what ignition you are running, this has a gigantic influence on what the plug gap should be..... ;)

GT
  • Boat #1: 1992 Carrera 20.5 Elite (I/O bitches)
  • Boat #2: 19' Bubble deck Jet BBC Berkeley
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If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

Time to man up and yank it John!  :banghead:
Ray

IRRebel

  • Karma: +16/-0
Re: WOT 3800 RPM
« Reply #16 on: September 14, 2011, 07:55:33 PM »
Thanks Ray, so do you thing I should start with timing?

No, I think the carb should come off and be carefully gone through and rebuilt, myself. But I'm not there looking at it either to know for sure that's the issue. But I HAVE seen plugs look like that, that weren't really lean, it was all in timing. My own boat was one. But you're only getting 3800 RPM (Provided the tach is RIGHT), and as lean as the plugs look to me, which would indicate to ME, anyway, the secondaries on your 4150 aren't even in the same playground when the rest of the boat has already picked teams and started the game.  Could be something else, but that's where I'd look first. 

Ray 
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GT Jets

  • Karma: +192/-0
Re: WOT 3800 RPM
« Reply #17 on: September 14, 2011, 07:58:52 PM »
Also sorta slipped my mind, be careful with plug selection, it depends what heads you have, if you run a long reach plug where a short reach is needed, it can get expensive in a hurry....

GT
  • Boat #1: 1992 Carrera 20.5 Elite (I/O bitches)
  • Boat #2: 19' Bubble deck Jet BBC Berkeley
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If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

Time to man up and yank it John!  :banghead:
Ray

NoRestraint

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: WOT 3800 RPM
« Reply #18 on: September 15, 2011, 03:56:27 PM »
Ok I got my pitot tube today so we will know how fast I am going tomorrow, put new plugs in, and I guess I need to go buy a timing gun  :D
  • Boat #1: 1987 Sleekcraft SST
  • Boat #2: 2001 F350 PSD 7.3
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mobboss

  • Karma: +15/-0
Re: WOT 3800 RPM
« Reply #19 on: September 15, 2011, 04:35:14 PM »
good luck tomorrow, try to keep a running tab on how it runs not just at wot but at all speeds you know how it starts cold and hot how it idels, 1/4 throttle 1/2 throttle 3/4 and full. hell bring a note pad.these are all things that will help you. have fun.
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ka0tyk

  • Karma: +30/-0
Re: WOT 3800 RPM
« Reply #20 on: September 15, 2011, 04:42:38 PM »
interested in what the problem could be.  i had like a 63/71 set of jets in my 650 carb and it ran awesome at WOT still... but it sputtered in between and my plugs looked lean.  i changed to 75/80 and now it runs awesome and the plugs have a nice little brown around around the insulators like they should.... is it a vac secondary carb?? do you even feel the secondaries kick in at all?  mine makes a very audible "weeeee" sound...
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IRRebel

  • Karma: +16/-0
Re: WOT 3800 RPM
« Reply #21 on: September 15, 2011, 05:42:25 PM »
interested in what the problem could be.  i had like a 63/71 set of jets in my 650 carb and it ran awesome at WOT still... but it sputtered in between and my plugs looked lean.  i changed to 75/80 and now it runs awesome and the plugs have a nice little brown around around the insulators like they should.... is it a vac secondary carb?? do you even feel the secondaries kick in at all?  mine makes a very audible "weeeee" sound...

Your "weeeeeeeee" sound is likely a vacuum leak in the secondary diaphragm brother............shouldn't hear anything other than a little more "whoosh" sounds than normal if the scoop is facing forward. Otherwise, probably wouldn't even hear that.

Ray
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"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways totally worn out shouting 'Holy Shit what a ride!"---Crewcheif22 AKA Keith

ka0tyk

  • Karma: +30/-0
Re: WOT 3800 RPM
« Reply #22 on: September 15, 2011, 06:06:21 PM »
Your "weeeeeeeee" sound is likely a vacuum leak in the secondary diaphragm brother............shouldn't hear anything other than a little more "whoosh" sounds than normal if the scoop is facing forward. Otherwise, probably wouldn't even hear that.

Ray

new vac diaphragm.  i dunno... weee woosh, its only when they open up that i hear it and then it goes away once they're open. 
my point is that when my carb was jetted really lean at least it would run and it ran fine at idle and WOT and it stumbled inbetween.  i still hit 5k even with those small jets. 
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Beaveretriever

  • Karma: +34/-0
WOT 3800 RPM
« Reply #23 on: September 15, 2011, 08:49:53 PM »
Try the float levels, or maybe even a dirty fuel filter.


The beav
  • Boat #1: 1981 Eliminator Daytona 19' Jet
  • Boat #2: 2003 22' Placecraft Deck boat
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IRRebel

  • Karma: +16/-0
Re: WOT 3800 RPM
« Reply #24 on: September 15, 2011, 09:30:54 PM »
new vac diaphragm.  i dunno... weee woosh, its only when they open up that i hear it and then it goes away once they're open. 
my point is that when my carb was jetted really lean at least it would run and it ran fine at idle and WOT and it stumbled inbetween.  i still hit 5k even with those small jets.

Perfect example. The diaphragm is not leaking, but the housing is. Shoulda been more specific on my part. Working for now, but just so you know next year when you change the diaphragm, you got a warped cover or something that should be stoned out, just sayin.

I'm still thinking this poor guys secondaries are not even thinking about coming to the party.............yeah, a 4150 Mechanical, and the butterflies are opening, but no fuel to support the secondaries???? Ceramic filter in the bowl clogged? metering block clogged up? could be many things, but I think that carb needs to come apart.

Ray



Ray
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