SoCal Jet Boats
Tech Talk => Hulls => Topic started by: pipes on June 27, 2014, 06:43:34 AM
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Does anybody have opinions or information about the performance and reliability of advantage boats I'm looking at a 20 foot jet with Droop snoop dominatr Berkeley with the 454 stock interior and paint is stock and mint has been sitting for 6 years in a garage.
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Does anybody have opinions or information about the performance and reliability of advantage boats I'm looking at a 20 foot jet with Droop snoop dominatr Berkeley with the 454 stock interior and paint is stock and mint has been sitting for 6 years in a garage.
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Lots off them out there.
Pics.
-beerjet-
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I don't have any pictures but how would it compare to my Kona
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I don't have any pictures but how would it compare to my Kona
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KONA BOATS
"Benny the Broom" as he was referred to.
His glass work looked like it was laid and pushed around with a broom...
Or so I was told.
-beerjet-
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Here's a couple pics of ours. Bought it new in 89. Advantage builds a solid boat.
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KONA BOATS
"Benny the Broom" as he was referred to.
His glass work looked like it was laid and pushed around with a broom...
Or so I was told.
-beerjet-
yeah that's for sure! The gel coat finish drives me nuts.
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Well now I have three boats! I'm starting to think maybe I have a problem. Just bought 88 20' advantage stock 454 (I'll fix that this winter) dominator jet with droop 100 hours! Boat is mint it's been sitting in a garage for 9 years.
I'll get some better pictures tomorrow
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Well now I have three boats! I'm starting to think maybe I have a problem. Just bought 88 20' advantage stock 454 (I'll fix that this winter) dominator jet with droop 100 hours! Boat is mint it's been sitting in a garage for 9 years.
I'll get some better pictures tomorrow
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That thing is fockin sexy!
Congrats!
-beerjet-
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Here's a couple pics of ours. Bought it new in 89. Advantage builds a solid boat.
just bought this today. I'll post some more pics tomorrow. What do you have for a motor and drive? That's an amazing looking boat you have! Is it all original
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That thing is fockin sexy!
Congrats!
-beerjet-
thank you! Now I've got a little more room for.... well ... something that might pop up:D
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just bought this today. I'll post some more pics tomorrow. What do you have for a motor and drive? That's an amazing looking boat you have! Is it all original
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Had gel similar to yours. In o6 decided to update the gel and interior. We had a mild 30 over 454 with all Edelbrock Performer Plus kit, closed chambered heads and gps'd at 73 mph.
Bottom was straighten when we regelled the boat. That made a big difference. Has a Dominator pump with a ride plate and shoe, also made a big difference. Yours probably doesn't have a fin in the bottom. I recomend it with this hull. I spun mine out twice and took it back to Harry for a fin.
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The best I can get is 59.5 gps! And no it won't hit 60 no matter what I do.
Will a shoe make much difference? How can I get this thing to hit 70? It turns 47-4800 rpm. Place diverter , droop, ride plate
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Spending a bunch of money on the pump and motor will get you 70 mph. Figure a thousand dollars for each mph.
Or* fill up the tanks and ice chest and run it till it breaks.
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I hope the pump picture you posted is old, because with don't see a diverter... Also it sounds like your rpm's are pretty low, what impeller are you running? (I know those dominators are different, than the berks) but it sounds like you're missing something.
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It sounds about right for bone stock.
Would like to know what grate is in it.
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Here's a couple pics of ours. Bought it new in 89. Advantage builds a solid boat.
:)
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It sounds about right for bone stock.
Would like to know what grate is in it.
Yup...
How fast do you want to go?
Lose the rudder, add a Place Diverter (the single most impressive change you can make for the buck).
Lose the anemic vacuum secondary carburetor for a mechanical secondary 850cfm marine
Lighten the interior wherever you can (betting it has plywood everywhere)
Move as much weight to the back as humanly possible.
Make sure the engine compartment is well ventilated, most closed engine compartments run in excess of 130°F, not to HP friendly)
Make sure of the tune i.e.; timing all in at 2500 RPM and max at 36° BTDC, ride plate about 3° up from flat, jetting is at least close, controls are synched correctly (reverse gate out of the way, throttle opens 100% etc.), fuel pressure is adequate.
It is my opinion that 60MPH is what should do.
On an unrelated note, you really need to pull the elbows off the exhaust and replace those gaskets. Looks to me like they are original and need some attention.
With the above changes, you will have a 65 MPH boat. To go faster, you need to lighten the boat by 400#, remove the comfort hook in the bottom, add a loader, a stuffer, and make about another 100 HP. That should theoretically put you at near 70. A lot of money for 5 MPH, but the truth hurts.
If it was my boat, I would add a Diverter, replace the carburetor and go have some fun...
GT
edit; at the very least, make sure you have the light yellow spring in the vacuum pot for the carburetor.
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The best I can get is 59.5 gps! And no it won't hit 60 no matter what I do.
Will a shoe make much difference? How can I get this thing to hit 70? It turns 47-4800 rpm. Place diverter , droop, ride plate
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What is your ride plate mounted to?
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Here's a couple pics of ours. Bought it new in 89. Advantage builds a solid boat.
Wow..... What a badass boat.... Did you re gel it? Or is that original?
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Thanks guys. These pictures were taken the day I bought it. Since then I've added a place diverter tuned the engine with new cap rotor points plugs wires exhaust and riser gaskets fuel filter set the timing and the dwell. Installed a new blower fan for engine compartment (leave it on to try and reduce temperature).
I'll get some pictures of the bottom of the boat along with the intake.
What's the difference between a loader and a stuffer? Would just a shoe be enough? Can you ever overload a pump? What's a comfort hook and how much of a job is it to remove it?
Thanks for everyone s help here. I probably would not own a jet boat if it wasn't for you
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I'm thinking about how to make more horsepower . So to make it breath better what headers , intake and carburetor? I'd prefer to not tear into the engine just yet. But when I do the new parts I put on now I'd like to reuse.
Are these good heads?
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Had gel similar to yours. In o6 decided to update the gel and interior. We had a mild 30 over 454 with all Edelbrock Performer Plus kit, closed chambered heads and gps'd at 73 mph.
Bottom was straighten when we regelled the boat. That made a big difference. Has a Dominator pump with a ride plate and shoe, also made a big difference. Yours probably doesn't have a fin in the bottom. I recomend it with this hull. I spun mine out twice and took it back to Harry for a fin.
what did the performer plus kit consist of? What exhaust and carburetor do you have? Do you have a loader or stuffer? Stock impeller? Any idea how much horsepower you have now?
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Thanks guys. These pictures were taken the day I bought it. Since then I've added a place diverter tuned the engine with new cap rotor points plugs wires exhaust and riser gaskets fuel filter set the timing and the dwell.
Points? Right there is and easy fix. Buy a Pertronix conversion kit. Where is your timing at?
Installed a new blower fan for engine compartment (leave it on to try and reduce temperature).
How many vents does the compartment have?
I'll get some pictures of the bottom of the boat along with the intake.
What's the difference between a loader and a stuffer?
Loader is a device to help square up the load on the impeller, it is mounted in the intake in place of rock grate. A stuffer is a device installed on the front of the bowl between the stator and the impeller to reduce unnecessary "mixing" in the transition area of the impeller.
Would just a shoe be enough?
For what? If you are looking to install a shoe to just add speed, just wait until you have another 100 HP. It looks to me like it already has one anyway.
Can you ever overload a pump?
Absolutely.
What's a comfort hook and how much of a job is it to remove it?
A hook is like a trim tab, but molded into the bottom of the boat, they are used to prevent the boat from porpoising. They are a major job to remove.
Thanks for everyone s help here. I probably would not own a jet boat if it wasn't for you.
Sorry.... :-\
GT
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I'm thinking about how to make more horsepower .
IMHO your best bet would be to build another engine leaving old faithful rock and roll.... :thumbup: :thumbup:
So to make it breath better what headers , intake and carburetor?
Headers? are you out of your mind? Leave what you have (IMO)
850 CFM mechanical secondary Holley or Quick Fuel have proven themselves over and over again. An open plenum Air Gap RPM has been one of my favorites since they came out.
I'd prefer to not tear into the engine just yet. But when I do the new parts I put on now I'd like to reuse.
Leave it alone... It sounds like it runs spot on, you did not buy a river rocket, when you build the new motor make sure it is what you want.
Are these good heads?
For what? ;)
GT
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Yeah I'm starting to think just run it hard with maybe another carburetor and start to collect parts for a new build
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If you get the complete casting number from the heads, they can be identified, They look to be decent heads, but without the cast number, it would be WAG.
GT
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I'll get the casting numbers. Can you tell if these are open or closed chambered heads
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I'll get the casting numbers. Can you tell if these are open or closed chambered heads
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With the number I can... ;)
So can you. :sly:
www.mortec.com (http://www.mortec.com)
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I'll get the casting numbers. Can you tell if these are open or closed chambered heads
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I'm sorry for thread jacking but what's the difference between open and close chambered heads and what are the pros/cons of either?
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I'm sorry for thread jacking but what's the difference between open and close chambered heads and what are the pros/cons of either?
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I'm trying to figure that out???
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If you get the complete casting number from the heads, they can be identified, They look to be decent heads, but without the cast number, it would be WAG.
GT
where do I find the casting numbers? Under valve covers?
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What have I got here? How should I improve it?
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I'm trying to figure that out???
I'm sorry for thread jacking but what's the difference between open and close chambered heads and what are the pros/cons of either?
You can look at this several different ways.
To tell by looking at them, an open chamber head has very small quench areas opposite the spark plug pocket (or a"at the top" as it where). The closed chamber head has a combustion chamber that resembles a bathtub only surrounding the valve area. This gets all muddled up when you look at late vs. early closed chambers, almost like the terminology changed.
Performance wise, by themselves it means almost nothing. It all depends on what piston dome/shape you are contemplating or already have.
I do know that if you use a piston designed for an open chamber head with say a 20 or 30 cc dome and install a closed chamber head, they will likely hit on the edge of the chamber, destroying the motor almost immediately.
Flat top pistons or even dish like what would be found on a force inducted motor becomes more of a compression ratio game.
I like open chamber heads for the simple fact that the design is more dynamically sound as far as scavenging and they tend to keep more heat on the entire surface of the piston (which could also be considered detrimental) reducing hot spots in one area which can stimulate some pretty gnarly detonation.
I really don't think there is a wrong answer as long as the chamber size/shape is taken into consideration with the piston dome size/shape.
The open chamber heads tend to build more power at the higher end and low end torque tends to suffer, but non of our jet boats can use any of that low end torque. Not until you get into the high 4,000 RPM does torque even come into play.
I am trying to find an article written by Gromm Racing in San Jose, I don't think it was on the net. It broke down virtually everything you ever wanted to know about cylinder heads and a lit more... It made my head hurt.
That is really all I can think of right now.
GT
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where do I find the casting numbers? Under valve covers?
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Yeah, one of the pictures you posted had a portion of the number showing, but I could not make it out. Under the VC toward the left hand side.
GT
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What have I got here? How should I improve it?
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What you have there is what is known as good stuff... That my friend is a shoe with a rideplate... :thumbup: :thumbup:
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Yeah, one of the pictures you posted had a portion of the number showing, but I could not make it out. Under the VC toward the left hand side.
GT
I thought so. I'll have to get that another day. Thank you sir
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Yeah, one of the pictures you posted had a portion of the number showing, but I could not make it out. Under the VC toward the left hand side.
GT
one last question for now.are these rectangular port?
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one last question for now.are these rectangular port?
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You are looking up it's butt, you need to look down it's throat...LMAO
The "rectangle" refers to the shape of the intake port, not the exhaust. I will look again at that casting number and see if I can figure it out.
GT
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You are looking up it's butt, you need to look down it's throat...LMAO
The "rectangle" refers to the shape of the intake port, not the exhaust. I will look again at that casting number and see if I can figure it out.
GT
well I am an ass man:)
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You are looking up it's butt, you need to look down it's throat...LMAO
The "rectangle" refers to the shape of the intake port, not the exhaust. I will look again at that casting number and see if I can figure it out.
GT
I'm seeing 0208 for the last 4 digits
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I'm seeing 0208 for the last 4 digits
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Which does not compute to anything that I can find, that could be a date stamping.
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Which does not compute to anything that I can find, that could be a date stamping.
ok. Thanks GT I'll have to take it back apart later
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How much horsepower would it take and what modification s would need to be done to the pump to achieve 80 mph. This boat weight is 2400 lbs
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How much horsepower would it take and what modification s would need to be done to the pump to achieve 80 mph. This boat weight is 2400 lbs
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$$$$... Keep in mind the more money you throw into it, the more your gonna be wrenching on it. It's a cruiser, stay with a good reliable turn key engine. If you'd like to go fast and we all do get yourself a smaller lighter boat.
.02
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How much horsepower would it take and what modification s would need to be done to the pump to achieve 80 mph. This boat weight is 2400 lbs
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Probably well over 800hp and extensive bottom work.
That boat was literally designed for 55mph with a very comfortable, wife pleasing ride.
JMHO
GT
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Not to mention, that hull would not be safe at anything over 70mph as far as I am concerned.
GT
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Not to mention, that hull would not be safe at anything over 70mph as far as I am concerned.
GT
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it feels really stable at 60. My 18 kona does 66 so I thought this boat could handle a lot more speed.
When I read about similar boats going 80 plus mph my wheels start turning. The hull on this boat is mint so doing any bottom work seems silly. I'd still like to go faster than sixty
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it feels really stable at 60. My 18 kona does 66 so I thought this boat could handle a lot more speed.
When I read about similar boats going 80 plus mph my wheels start turning. The hull on this boat is mint so doing any bottom work seems silly. I'd still like to go faster than sixty
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Have you ever driven an 80mph vee bottom?
There is nothing stable about it. It is my feeling that 70 is realistic with about 500 ponies and some pump work. I would install a drop through turn fin and make some hp.
80mph from 60 in a vee bottom would be the equivalent of going from 80mph to 210mph in a passenger car.
Jmho.
Buy a gull wing or a tunnel hull if you want to go 80.
People that are telling you they have a fully dressed 20 foot jet river cruiser that does 80+mph are pulling your dick.
Again, my personal opinion.
GT
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I have an 88 classic jet Advantage, I am going through it now , mpd reworked my jg Berkeley, nelson marine build me a 465 ci BBC pushing 500 HP, new windshield, new interior, in paint shop now getting white with red and orange Candy's. Pretty excited to put it back together.