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PEVCO

  • Karma: +0/-0
Air relief valve for air lock - where to install?
« on: August 06, 2014, 04:02:30 PM »
I have a Dominator 12 S pump with a droop snoop.
I keep getting an air lock when putting the boat in the water.
So I purchased a Air relief valve, but not sure where to install it.
I have a 94 Ultra jet .....there is a square plastic box on the transom that extends 6 inches out, then the round pump housing .
I only want to drill one hole.
Does anyone have experience doing this?

BTW, this is a great forum!!!!

Thanks, in advance
« Last Edit: August 06, 2014, 04:06:03 PM by PEVCO »
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GT Jets

  • Karma: +192/-0
Re: Air relief valve for air lock - where to install?
« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2014, 05:55:03 PM »
You are going to drill a hole into the very top of the bowl just outside that transom assembly (large box). You need to drill a hole and tap it with a 1/4"fmpt tap.

GT
  • Boat #1: 1992 Carrera 20.5 Elite (I/O bitches)
  • Boat #2: 19' Bubble deck Jet BBC Berkeley
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If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

Time to man up and yank it John!  :banghead:
Ray

PEVCO

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Air relief valve for air lock - where to install?
« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2014, 04:11:27 AM »
Is there any chance of drilling into something where as to damage any internal parts.
That box is 6 inches out from the transom to the bowel.
Would 1/2 inch from the end of the box be a good place to drill ?
Just being careful. 
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PEVCO

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Air relief valve for air lock - where to install?
« Reply #3 on: August 19, 2014, 03:00:15 AM »
Anyone have one of these installed in a Dominator 12S pump?
Just where exactly did you drill the hole?
Need measurements.

Thanks
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Flusher

  • Karma: +84/-0
Re: Air relief valve for air lock - where to install?
« Reply #4 on: August 19, 2014, 10:22:47 AM »
Anyone have one of these installed in a Dominator 12S pump?
Just where exactly did you drill the hole?
Need measurements.

Thanks

On the Dominator bowls, we drill them 2.500 inches back from the suction housing surface.  That works out to be about 7.00 inches from the droop surface if you want to try to drill it while on the boat.  That places the check valve at the largest inside diameter.  The wall thickness of the Dominator bowl is just over 3/8” thick in this area.

On the Berkeley bowls, we drill it .250 inches back from the edge where the inside diameter of the suction housing register transitions to the largest inside diameter before the stator vanes.

It looks like your transom adaptor is way back on the bowl.  Like GT said, drill it just behind your transom adaptor, which may be the limiting factor.  It has to be located outside of the boat.  If your transom adaptor causes you to drill further back, you could get into the stator vanes.  If you accidentally drill into a stator vane, it will cause cavitation in this area.

Be careful of breaking through with the drill bit.  The tap drill size for 1/4-18NPT is 7/16” and if not careful, could break through to a depth that could cause internal damage.

The threads on those check valves are pretty questionable.  When you tap, don’t run the tap in too deep.  General rule of thumb when tapping pipe threads is to leave 4 threads on the tap showing.  If you tap that deep, the check valve might not tighten up.  I would leave at least 6 threads showing on the tap and see if the check valve will start in.  You can always run the tap in a little deeper if necessary (in 1/4-turn increments).

Good luck,

Joe
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"I want to roll with my brother Joe" - Joe Bateman - January 29, 1950 ~ November 27, 2013

PEVCO

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Air relief valve for air lock - where to install?
« Reply #5 on: June 05, 2015, 03:51:22 AM »
Could someone post a picture on the placement of a Air Relief Valve on a Dominator 12 S pump.
I started this question last year but have not drilled a hole to mount the valve as yet.
Want to do it right the first time.
Or measurements as well.

Many thanks
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Blue2184

  • Karma: +4/-0
Re: Air relief valve for air lock - where to install?
« Reply #6 on: June 05, 2015, 04:35:46 AM »
I had a placecraft that had a problem air locking ... Can't take credit for it cause it was done on the boat when I got it? But they took the hand hole cover and tapped it with 1/4 tap and then put a 1/4 mip x 1/4 barb and they ran a short pice oh 1/4 hose and had a little bracket fab up and mounted to the back of the head holding a 1/4 ball valve... Just cracked the valve open when you first backed it in the water... It would take about 10 or 15 seconds for it to spit a little water out of the ball valve, close the valve and your good to go!! And no drilling the bowl!?


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Flusher

  • Karma: +84/-0
Re: Air relief valve for air lock - where to install?
« Reply #7 on: June 05, 2015, 08:32:08 AM »
Primarily, the Prime-a-jet needs to be located at the highest point in the bowl and outside of the transom adapter.  If you look inside a bowl, you will see that wall thickness of the flange where the suction housing bolt holes are is think and transitions to a thin wall thickness of about .300 thick near the bowl vanes.

Your pump setback, transom angle, and transom adapter will somewhat dictate where you are able to locate the Prime-a-jet.  Try to locate it in the transition taper between the suction flange and the thin wall near the bowl vanes so that you have enough meat for the threads.

When you tap the 1/4NPT hole, don't tap too deep.  The threads on the Prime-a-jet aren't very nice.  Typically you would leave about four threads showing, on the tap, at final depth.  I would start out with at least six threads showing and keep checking.  If you tap too deep the Prime-a-jet will not tighten up and will leak.
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"I want to roll with my brother Joe" - Joe Bateman - January 29, 1950 ~ November 27, 2013

PEVCO

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Air relief valve for air lock - where to install?
« Reply #8 on: June 05, 2015, 11:52:37 AM »
I under stand the drill siz, and tap size, it is the exact placement where to "drill a hole on the top" of the the bell housing, that's
where I'm having trouble....that is where a picture of someones installed air relief valve would really help.
Please see my picture.
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Flusher

  • Karma: +84/-0
Re: Air relief valve for air lock - where to install?
« Reply #9 on: June 05, 2015, 12:57:31 PM »
You are limited with that huge transom adapter.  You are going to have to get it as close to the TA as possible.  You really need to pull the bowl so you can look inside and make sure that you are not going to drill into a bowl vane.

IMHO, the ideal location is covered by your TA.  You can still make it work, but you really need to know what you are drilling into on the inside.  Also, everywhere between the angle cut and the TA is the thinnest part of that bowl.  I would consider changing my launching technique.

I will post pictures after work.
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FordLover

  • Karma: +72/-0
Re: Air relief valve for air lock - where to install?
« Reply #10 on: June 05, 2015, 01:07:12 PM »
So the transom adapter, does that mean there was a different pump in there before and you use this adapter to make this one work on this boat?
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Flusher

  • Karma: +84/-0
Re: Air relief valve for air lock - where to install?
« Reply #11 on: June 05, 2015, 01:23:25 PM »
No, it's just the way Dominator chose to cover the hole in the transom.  Some pumps, like Legend, are a little more elegant about the the size of the hole and how it is covered.
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FordLover

  • Karma: +72/-0
Re: Air relief valve for air lock - where to install?
« Reply #12 on: June 05, 2015, 01:29:55 PM »
No, it's just the way Dominator chose to cover the hole in the transom.  Some pumps, like Legend, are a little more elegant about the the size of the hole and how it is covered.

Cool!  I like the way the adapters look.
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Flusher

  • Karma: +84/-0
Re: Air relief valve for air lock - where to install?
« Reply #13 on: June 06, 2015, 12:08:25 AM »
Here are pictures of the pump out of 000.  It is located 2.250" back from the suction housing surface at the 12:00 position and is approximately 6-15/16" from the droop surface.
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"I want to roll with my brother Joe" - Joe Bateman - January 29, 1950 ~ November 27, 2013

Flusher

  • Karma: +84/-0
Re: Air relief valve for air lock - where to install?
« Reply #14 on: June 06, 2015, 12:51:31 AM »
The suction flange tapers down to the thinnest wall thickness at 2.300" aft of the suction surface.  Looks like the bowl vanes will start to interfere with anything beyond 3.400 aft of the suction surface.  The edge between the outside diameter of the bowl and the first taper is approximately 4.325" aft of the suction surface.  If you have enough room between that edge and your transom adapter to locate the center of the Prime-a-jet a minimum of 1-3/8" (1.375) and a maximum of 3-1/16" (3.063) forward of said edge, you shouldn't drill into a bowl vane.  Hope this helps.

Good luck,

Joe
« Last Edit: June 06, 2015, 12:57:40 AM by Flusher »
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"I want to roll with my brother Joe" - Joe Bateman - January 29, 1950 ~ November 27, 2013

Flusher

  • Karma: +84/-0
Re: Air relief valve for air lock - where to install?
« Reply #15 on: June 06, 2015, 01:05:47 AM »
The suction flange tapers down to the thinnest wall thickness at 2.300" aft of the suction surface.  Looks like the bowl vanes will start to interfere with anything beyond 3.400 aft of the suction surface.  The edge between the outside diameter of the bowl and the first taper is approximately 4.325" aft of the suction surface.  If you have enough room between that edge and your transom adapter to locate the center of the Prime-a-jet a minimum of 1-3/8" (1.375) and a maximum of 3-1/16" (3.063) forward of said edge, you shouldn't drill into a bowl vane.  Hope this helps.

Good luck,

Joe

Minimum distance from edge should be 1-3/8" (1.375).

If you wanted to shoot for the highest point in the pump, that would be approximately 2-1/32" (2.031) from the edge.
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"I want to roll with my brother Joe" - Joe Bateman - January 29, 1950 ~ November 27, 2013

Flusher

  • Karma: +84/-0
Re: Air relief valve for air lock - where to install?
« Reply #16 on: June 06, 2015, 01:06:39 AM »
If you wanted to shoot for the highest point in the pump, that would be approximately 2-1/32" (2.031) from the edge.
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Flusher

  • Karma: +84/-0
Re: Air relief valve for air lock - where to install?
« Reply #17 on: June 06, 2015, 01:15:01 AM »
I hope that you understand that the clocking of bolt holes could be totally random and be the same as the bowl I have here.  Without taking your bowl off and looking inside to see where your bowl vanes actually are, you are shooting in the dark and my numbers really mean nothing.  Should you accidentally drill into one of the bowl vanes, you will substantially disrupt the flow in one and possibly two passages.
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aquaholic72

  • Karma: +54/-0
Re: Air relief valve for air lock - where to install?
« Reply #18 on: June 06, 2015, 04:20:23 AM »
Holy crap!!! I think drill a hole n go! Lol i just got so confused reading all that... i dont think most of our brains work like yours joe!! O0 wow..

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  • Boat #1: 72 aquacraft flatty v-drive
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PEVCO

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Air relief valve for air lock - where to install?
« Reply #19 on: June 06, 2015, 05:52:29 AM »
I appreciate all your efforts in describing what to look for however, if I could find someone that has successfully installed one of these relief valves  on a Dominator 12S pump with a picture that would really help.
There has to be a bunch out there just have to get a picture by someone.
I'm not going to drill a hole until I'm 100 % sure on the location.
My boat sits on a raised shore station  when not in use on a lake where I live out of the water.
So every time I lower the boat it must sit in the water for a short while to allow the air to escape.
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crazyjim

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Air relief valve for air lock - where to install?
« Reply #20 on: June 06, 2015, 04:20:49 PM »
I appreciate all your efforts in describing what to look for however, if I could find someone that has successfully installed one of these relief valves  on a Dominator 12S pump with a picture that would really help.
There has to be a bunch out there just have to get a picture by someone.
I'm not going to drill a hole until I'm 100 % sure on the location.
My boat sits on a raised shore station  when not in use on a lake where I live out of the water.
So every time I lower the boat it must sit in the water for a short while to allow the air to escape.


I think what Flusher is trying to explain to you, is that seeing a picture of someone else's install isn't going to help you.  The bolt holes may be clocked differently, meaning the vanes are in a completely different position. Your best bet is going to be to take the bowl off, and look from the inside. That way there's no chance of you drilling through the edge of a vane.
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PEVCO

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Air relief valve for air lock - where to install?
« Reply #21 on: June 06, 2015, 05:00:15 PM »
I'm beginning to think your correct.....it is such a job to remove the bell housing, but probley the right way to do this.

Thanks to all for your input.
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Flusher

  • Karma: +84/-0
Re: Air relief valve for air lock - where to install?
« Reply #22 on: June 06, 2015, 11:05:41 PM »
Try taking the bowl off without disturbing the suction, engine, etc.
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"I want to roll with my brother Joe" - Joe Bateman - January 29, 1950 ~ November 27, 2013

 


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