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quick olds

  • Karma: +3/-0
Berk jc to jg conversion?
« on: July 10, 2015, 02:36:36 AM »
Had a late night idea lol i know you can weld the bolt circle ring to end of a c bowl after machining and i was wondering if i buy the ring or do i have to make one? I happen to be a machinist and the shop im working in would more than likely be ok with letting me use a mill. Also do i just deck it flat or do i have a number as to how much i need to take?  Or am overall length of the bowl should i take more? Less if possible i know nothing about pumps amd am willing to learn but wiuld like to do this right the first time. Boat is a 18 ft 73 anthony. Medium weight layup. jot super thick but not see thru either Engine builder is estimatimg 700hp by around 6000 rpm. Not sure what other info i need to give.
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Your Mom

  • Karma: +20/-0
Re: Berk jc to jg conversion?
« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2015, 06:56:13 AM »
I would ad a bit more than just a ring...The vanes will be sticking out if you make it the same length as G bowl. The aggressors, dominators an AT's are about 2" longer then the G. It will end up giving you just a tad more length in exit which helps in lift/control. Heres a pic of one I sold...blue bowl. I'd call Jet boat performance an chat with them as I think they were converting em years back.

I had of few of these to...sold em though. bowl to nozzle extentions...
 
« Last Edit: July 10, 2015, 07:00:00 AM by Your Mom »
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quick olds

  • Karma: +3/-0
Re: Berk jc to jg conversion?
« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2015, 11:53:05 AM »
Ok cool i can make anything i need i just need to know how to go about it. Thanks for the info.
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TJS Nordic

  • Karma: +2/-0
Re: Berk jc to jg conversion?
« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2015, 11:50:01 AM »
I also have a C bowl I want to convert. I can machine and TIG weld pretty well. However a couple things come to mind. What is the best way to hold the bowl to the mill table? I am thinking machining a stepped aluminum bushing on the lathe which fits into where the bowl cap resides. Then the center hole in the aluminum bushing would have a hole in it to allow the hold down stud that goes to the base of the slot in the mill table hole down T-slot holder.
The next thing that confuses me is how do you go about indexing so the bolts on nozzle adapter pin is in the exact location on where they should be. What I mean is making sure the steering pin is in the same centerline as it should be. This is where bolt hole placement in the machined ring becomes most important. Cause after you cut off the C bowl stub you kind of loose your pin location. Anybody have any tricks for this or am I over thinking this. Maybe mount the whole C bowl on the mill table and indicate where the pin should be a zero out the DRO on you X axis. Then use a slitting saw on the mill to cut off the C bowl stub while keeping the bowl bolted to the mill table. The after you get the bowl milled to the height you want to have your ring already bolted to the nozzle adapter and set it on the bowl and from your DRO X axis original zero again most likely against a locating pin in the bore of the steering pin bore of the g bowl nozzle adapter. Find some way to hold it down and tack weld while still the work is bolted to the mill. Remove from mill and full weld. Thoughts?
Kind of hard to explain without a pic. There is a great site that has bolt circle drilling without a rotory table. I will post the link tonite, it works great with a DRO.

Flusher

  • Karma: +84/-0
Re: Berk jc to jg conversion?
« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2015, 02:06:32 PM »
Put a couple 1/2-13 set screws or 27/64 diameter pins in the top two suction holes.  Pull firmly against the back of the table as you tighten the nut on the stud (in the middle T-slot) passing through the shaft bore.  Just use a thick washer on the surface were the bowl plug seals under the nut.

Cheers,

Joe
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"I want to roll with my brother Joe" - Joe Bateman - January 29, 1950 ~ November 27, 2013

Flusher

  • Karma: +84/-0
Re: Berk jc to jg conversion?
« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2015, 02:07:06 PM »
Try to leave the vanes as long as possible.
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"I want to roll with my brother Joe" - Joe Bateman - January 29, 1950 ~ November 27, 2013

TJS Nordic

  • Karma: +2/-0
Re: Berk jc to jg conversion?
« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2015, 05:11:43 AM »
Put a couple 1/2-13 set screws or 27/64 diameter pins in the top two suction holes.  Pull firmly against the back of the table as you tighten the nut on the stud (in the middle T-slot) passing through the shaft bore.  Just use a thick washer on the surface were the bowl plug seals under the nut.

Cheers,

Joe

Thanks Joe. I really appreciate the insite. Yes I was going to put 2 studs/pins in the bowl and get them in the table slot. I like the fact I can use a large alum washer as a hold down instead of turning a bushing. Are there rings for this premade with 5/16-18 blind holes drilled and tapped for a weld on nozzle adapter ring. It does sound like these are not readily sold anywhere, what do you recommend the height of this ring be. Thus my idea would be to turn the ring and make it so it registers into the cut and milled area of the bowl which will allow less fiddling of getting the ring welded on in the “center”. Then I thought about making a long pin/shaft the total length of the nozzle adapter with a moderate slip fit. I can then indicate that pin/shaft once I get the old nozzle stub cut off. Again, cutting off in the mill and using the longer pin shaft for indicating the original C bowl steering bores. Then put the turned ring with a shoulder in the “register”, indicate the pin/shaft and then tack weld. Remove the whole assembly and then full weld. Blanket, insulate the whole assembly and let cool as slow as possible.
I am not a machinist by any means but some of this stuff keeps me awake at night. I am sure you have a JIG for this, correct? I am doing this for my boat project and this is not for any type of gain except self preservation and pride knowing I can do this.
Thanks for your help.
T.J.

Flusher

  • Karma: +84/-0
Re: Berk jc to jg conversion?
« Reply #7 on: August 13, 2015, 07:19:05 AM »
We don't modify the C bowl.  That's one of those performance per dollar spent things.  We do make the ring spacers, but have not done so in the last four years.  The one pictured above is not tapped, but clearance drilled to slip over fasteners threaded into the bowl.

If I was approaching this project, I would base the length primarily on what material I could find.  A Dominator bowl diameter is 7.900 on the droop side.  The inside diameter is 6.250.  A Dominator bowl is about 9-1/2 long and a Berkeley is about 8-1/4 long.  An Aggressor is the longest at about an inch longer than a Dominator, but I don't have one right now to measure.  With that being said, an 8" diameter x 3" of 6061 is a healthy chunk and a substantial investment at $2.99/lb.  I think making it unnecessarily long is not beneficial and cost prohibited.

I would focus first on retaining as much length on the vanes as possible.  This provides water control.  After the impeller pisses off the water, the vanes are there to straighten out the turbulence into laminar flow that can be useful to thrust.  A lot of open volume in between the vanes and droop can promote turbulence and back-flow.  The C bowl has a pretty good transition from the bowl into the nozzle which will be lost when altered.  This transition will now be an effect of whatever droop you install.

Next, I would focus on the the transition on the inside from the bowl into the ring you are making.  If you are feeling ambitious, you might consider lengthening the vanes.

My final opinion on the topic is that the work you are doing should improve performance, otherwise, you are just adding weight.  Foil the trailing edges to smooth the water transition and reduce turbulence.

Of course, the benifits of all of this is diminished if you don't detail the the leading edges of the vanes.

Good luck,

Joe
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"I want to roll with my brother Joe" - Joe Bateman - January 29, 1950 ~ November 27, 2013

Your Mom

  • Karma: +20/-0
Re: Berk jc to jg conversion?
« Reply #8 on: August 13, 2015, 08:16:49 AM »
I have 2 aggressor 9's... they are 10.250 roughly. I made a new ride plate to compensate the length of bowl for cradle to sit at end of bowl. If you plan on adding a droop or any devise that has a bar inside (some droops) or smaller internal diameter, then making the ring go to length of vanes or past will allow for whatever add on.

Flusher

  • Karma: +84/-0
Re: Berk jc to jg conversion?
« Reply #9 on: August 13, 2015, 06:54:31 PM »
You should use no less than 5/8" thick
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"I want to roll with my brother Joe" - Joe Bateman - January 29, 1950 ~ November 27, 2013

 


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