Null


Danger731

  • Karma: +0/-0
How do you read an impellar chart ?
« on: August 06, 2009, 12:15:09 AM »
I have a Ford 460, Jacuzzi jet D impellar

at 4800 rpm  I do about 50 oops MPH (not knots) GPS

What are these impellar charts ? It lists HP down one column , Impellar a,b,s,d... across the top
then lists RPMs to match.

What is the scoop on these charts ?
« Last Edit: August 06, 2009, 09:28:37 AM by Danger731 »
  • Like
    Dislike
    Love
    HaHa
    Angry
    Surprise
    Sad
    Party
76 Sleekcraft Executive 460

Leadsled

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How do you read an impellar chart ?
« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2009, 12:19:15 AM »
In theory, if you take your max rpms and follow that over to what impeller size you have it tells you what h.p. you supposedly have.  I dont think they are the most accurate but more of a ballpark figure.
  • Like
    Dislike
    Love
    HaHa
    Angry
    Surprise
    Sad
    Party

IRRebel

  • Karma: +16/-0
Re: How do you read an impellar chart ?
« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2009, 12:25:15 AM »
I've been trying to understand them as well. Where pro's like Tom at JBP or Glenn (GT Jets) can usually guess what impeller is needed knowing the engine construction, but I think they're more of a guidline to get you into the ball park. Just me.

However, I've not been real clear as to whether you're supposed to aim the max HP you can reach, note that RPM and match it from there, or whether you're really supposed to match the RPM range you plan to operate then match the HP you generate at that RPM to select.

I guess you can read it either way, in reality, and maybe that's the point of it. Depends on what you plan to do with the boat as to how you read it.

Ray
  • Like
    Dislike
    Love
    HaHa
    Angry
    Surprise
    Sad
    Party
"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways totally worn out shouting 'Holy Shit what a ride!"---Crewcheif22 AKA Keith

Leadsled

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How do you read an impellar chart ?
« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2009, 12:35:57 AM »
If you use it to pick an impeller you would have to have an idea of hp and at what range.  Or you might be able to use the chart if you knew your hp and only wanted to top out at a certain rpm, then you might get away with the chart.

Kinda curious as to how many people actually know the hp of thier engines.  I know I sure dont know the exact but I think I have a good ball park figure.

Danger, from the little bit I know, it sounds like you have the correct impeller in your pump but I dont think its a D cut.
  • Like
    Dislike
    Love
    HaHa
    Angry
    Surprise
    Sad
    Party

Danger731

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How do you read an impellar chart ?
« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2009, 12:42:51 AM »
ok , so  I have  a "D" at 4800 RPMs so my BBF is only 200 HP ?!?!

What if i switch to  a "A" impellar, y engine won't spin at 48009 rpm anymore ?, WTF it makes no sense.
  • Like
    Dislike
    Love
    HaHa
    Angry
    Surprise
    Sad
    Party
76 Sleekcraft Executive 460

Danger731

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How do you read an impellar chart ?
« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2009, 12:45:13 AM »
This stuff is Greek to me, why do you think it is not a  D impellar,

Also I doubt this ford 460 is only pushin 200 hP !
  • Like
    Dislike
    Love
    HaHa
    Angry
    Surprise
    Sad
    Party
76 Sleekcraft Executive 460

Leadsled

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How do you read an impellar chart ?
« Reply #6 on: August 06, 2009, 12:47:59 AM »
Sounds to me like you already have an "A" cut or an "AB".  Do you think your engine actually has only 200.  A stock 460 is gonna be in the 330ish range.
  • Like
    Dislike
    Love
    HaHa
    Angry
    Surprise
    Sad
    Party

IRRebel

  • Karma: +16/-0
Re: How do you read an impellar chart ?
« Reply #7 on: August 06, 2009, 12:54:40 AM »
You can't use the charts to "reverse dyno" the engine.

Truth be told, if you are in fact running a D impeller, then you may well benefit from an upgrade. I'd find it hard to beleive that would be in there with a 460, myself. Your engine is simply stopping at 4800, probably, due to the ignition system (Especially if points or theres an RPM limiter stopping you there), or valve springs, as someone recently showed me. You may well have, Should have, a hundred or a couple hundred more HP there to drive a more aggressive impeller!

The only way to know is to A: have the engine dyno'd, or B: step up the impeller and see what happens!

B is probably cheaper, first, and probably more correct.

I don't know about Jacuzzi's, but every Berk I've ever seen factory attached to ANY big block was an A impeller.

GPS'ing at 50 knots on a D impeller at 4800 rpm, I agree, not reasonable, really. But stranger things have happened I suppose!

Ray
  • Like
    Dislike
    Love
    HaHa
    Angry
    Surprise
    Sad
    Party
"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways totally worn out shouting 'Holy Shit what a ride!"---Crewcheif22 AKA Keith

Leadsled

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How do you read an impellar chart ?
« Reply #8 on: August 06, 2009, 12:54:49 AM »
For reference.
  • Like
    Dislike
    Love
    HaHa
    Angry
    Surprise
    Sad
    Party

IRRebel

  • Karma: +16/-0
Re: How do you read an impellar chart ?
« Reply #9 on: August 06, 2009, 01:09:44 AM »
As I already said, confused myself immensely on these charts.

Hypothetically, and REALLY hypothetically speaking  >:D, where does say 900 or so HP at 6000rpm fall onto those charts? (Theres a few of them on here, so not a far reach!). :sly:

E impeller?  ;D

Ray
  • Like
    Dislike
    Love
    HaHa
    Angry
    Surprise
    Sad
    Party
"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways totally worn out shouting 'Holy Shit what a ride!"---Crewcheif22 AKA Keith

Leadsled

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How do you read an impellar chart ?
« Reply #10 on: August 06, 2009, 01:12:52 AM »
You can't use the charts to "reverse dyno" the engine.

Probably not very accurate but could "ballpark it"

GPS'ing at 50 knots on a D impeller at 4800 rpm, I agree, not reasonable, really. But stranger things have happened I suppose!

50 knots = 58mph.  D impeller would be spinning much higher than 4800 to reach that speed.  58mph is pretty respectable in a 21 ft boat and sounds about to par with the results of an "A" cut impeller.
  • Like
    Dislike
    Love
    HaHa
    Angry
    Surprise
    Sad
    Party

Leadsled

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How do you read an impellar chart ?
« Reply #11 on: August 06, 2009, 01:20:07 AM »
Right off of Berkeley's site.  Might be of help.


To illustrate an impeller choice, a ski boat was run with a C and A impeller. It had 185 hp, V-8 engine which turned the C impeller at 4300 rpm, required 182 hp, with a top speed of 42 mph. It turned the A impeller at 3700 rpm, requiring 162 hp, with a top speed of 40 mph. The loss of 20 hp, due to the lower maximum rpm, only dropped the top boat speed 2 mph. The rpm required for all other boat speeds was 500 less for the A impeller, which lowered the noise level considerably.
  • Like
    Dislike
    Love
    HaHa
    Angry
    Surprise
    Sad
    Party

IRRebel

  • Karma: +16/-0
Re: How do you read an impellar chart ?
« Reply #12 on: August 06, 2009, 02:09:46 AM »
Noise level? who cares about noise level!  >:D ('cept 2SAv, keeps his noise in the 'rage just to satisfy the tree huggers!)

J/K Actually makes some sense, to the Green crowd maybe. But if you think about it, saving the world from noise pollution while running a gas guzzling, air polluting v-8, horsing around for no apparent reason on a lake or river seems a bit diverse from that theory, don't it?  O0

Ray
  • Like
    Dislike
    Love
    HaHa
    Angry
    Surprise
    Sad
    Party
"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways totally worn out shouting 'Holy Shit what a ride!"---Crewcheif22 AKA Keith

crewchief22

  • Karma: +66/-0
Re: How do you read an impellar chart ?
« Reply #13 on: August 06, 2009, 05:48:22 AM »
But if you think about it, saving the world from noise pollution while running a gas guzzling, air polluting v-8, horsing around for no apparent reason on a lake or river... O0

Ray

Sssshhhh, one of "them" might hear you.  Then what are we gonna do? 
  • Boat #1: '77 Hondo Pantera GT Jet
  • Like
    Dislike
    Love
    HaHa
    Angry
    Surprise
    Sad
    Party
"Racing is life!  Anything that happens before or after, is just waiting"    Steve McQueen

The problem with America is stupidity. I'm not saying there should be a capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?

Leadsled

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How do you read an impellar chart ?
« Reply #14 on: August 06, 2009, 09:11:40 AM »
Sssshhhh, one of "them" might hear you.  Then what are we gonna do? 

LOL there was another part that I didnt copy and paste that was talking about going for a bigger impeller to cut rpms in order to save wear and tear on family type boats.  Kinda makes sense if you have a cruiser but definately not for smaller boats that have more potential
  • Like
    Dislike
    Love
    HaHa
    Angry
    Surprise
    Sad
    Party

Danger731

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How do you read an impellar chart ?
« Reply #15 on: August 06, 2009, 09:17:05 AM »
Probably not very accurate but could "ballpark it"

50 knots = 58mph.  D impeller would be spinning much higher than 4800 to reach that speed.  58mph is pretty respectable in a 21 ft boat and sounds about to par with the results of an "A" cut impeller.


Not 50 knots,
50 MPH of a portable GPS, the boat is a Sleekcraft Executive 23 footer at 1800 pouinds + me and my son = 2200 pounds, this was in a slight chop but no white caps.
  • Like
    Dislike
    Love
    HaHa
    Angry
    Surprise
    Sad
    Party
76 Sleekcraft Executive 460

Danger731

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How do you read an impellar chart ?
« Reply #16 on: August 06, 2009, 09:20:26 AM »
Truth be told, if you are in fact running a D impeller, then you may well benefit from an upgrade. I'd find it hard to beleive that would be in there with a 460, myself. Your engine is simply stopping at 4800, probably, due to the ignition system (Especially if points or theres an RPM limiter stopping you there), or valve springs, as someone recently showed me. You may well have, Should have, a hundred or a couple hundred more HP there to drive a more aggressive impeller!

The ignition is upgraded to electronic and the seller said no RPM limiter but it does have a MSD box, he may be wrong.

Another question, should a Ford big block be spinnin at 4800 RPM anyways ?

The thing scares me, I'm a SBC fan. Hell a LS1 is lighter and has more HP.
  • Like
    Dislike
    Love
    HaHa
    Angry
    Surprise
    Sad
    Party
76 Sleekcraft Executive 460

Danger731

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How do you read an impellar chart ?
« Reply #17 on: August 06, 2009, 09:27:38 AM »
Right off of Berkeley's site.  Might be of help.


To illustrate an impeller choice, a ski boat was run with a C and A impeller. It had 185 hp, V-8 engine which turned the C impeller at 4300 rpm, required 182 hp, with a top speed of 42 mph. It turned the A impeller at 3700 rpm, requiring 162 hp, with a top speed of 40 mph. The loss of 20 hp, due to the lower maximum rpm, only dropped the top boat speed 2 mph. The rpm required for all other boat speeds was 500 less for the A impeller, which lowered the noise level considerably.

So you loose HP due to the RPM change, I get it now. But It is hard to believe that this 185 HP motor couldn't turn the A impellar faster. It has 185 HP but is only using 162 HP, Why ? shouldn't it spin the A impellar just as fast ?, That is where I am confused, it is not as if the A impellar has a differeng gear ratio or gear reducer.
  • Like
    Dislike
    Love
    HaHa
    Angry
    Surprise
    Sad
    Party
76 Sleekcraft Executive 460

Leadsled

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How do you read an impellar chart ?
« Reply #18 on: August 06, 2009, 09:40:06 AM »
You could say the "A" is more aggresive and also larger.  An example:  It takes 250 hp to turn a "C" 4800.  Because an "A" is larger it takes 350 hp to turn at 4800.  The benefit is that you are moving a lot more water with an "A" at that rpm than with a "C" resulting in more propulsion.
  • Like
    Dislike
    Love
    HaHa
    Angry
    Surprise
    Sad
    Party

Danger731

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How do you read an impellar chart ?
« Reply #19 on: August 06, 2009, 09:42:21 AM »
Are impellars stamped to see the "cut" ?
  • Like
    Dislike
    Love
    HaHa
    Angry
    Surprise
    Sad
    Party
76 Sleekcraft Executive 460

Leadsled

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How do you read an impellar chart ?
« Reply #20 on: August 06, 2009, 09:44:59 AM »
Yes they are stamped but you have to take the bowl off to see it. Unless someone else knows a better way.

  • Like
    Dislike
    Love
    HaHa
    Angry
    Surprise
    Sad
    Party

jet boat performance

  • Karma: +25/-0
Re: How do you read an impellar chart ?
« Reply #21 on: August 06, 2009, 09:52:23 AM »
Welcome to Socal ! I'll admitt I read down the middle of this thread , First although some relationship exists there are no actual "parrallels" between Jacuzzi and Berks respective to the "RPM" charts This is particularly true of the YJ as it actually operates on a different principle (axial flow vs "mixed flow) However forgetting rpms ,power etc I'm not sure why a boat with a 460 CU motor would have a  "C" Impeller "C"s were typically reserved for small CU motors (Small blocks etc) That said a BBF in an average boat should (will) turn a Jacuzzi YJ "B" typically around 5100 RPMs and a WJ "B" aournd 4800 so.... if you extrapilate that, your BBF (which new/stock made 320 hp) should spin that "C" upward to 5K ,  Assuming your tach is correct I would say your "down on power" and I would be looking at motor , tune up and carburation "issues" Please call if we can help you Tom

re ID of the impellers , the nominal measurements are not in any similar to Berk ,If you have the Impeller out I have some Jacuzzi specs and cut charts (somewhere  :screwy:)
« Last Edit: August 06, 2009, 09:56:55 AM by jet boat performance »
  • Like
    Dislike
    Love
    HaHa
    Angry
    Surprise
    Sad
    Party

Stevecat

  • Karma: +2/-0
Re: How do you read an impellar chart ?
« Reply #22 on: August 06, 2009, 09:53:52 AM »
So you loose HP due to the RPM change, I get it now. But It is hard to believe that this 185 HP motor couldn't turn the A impellar faster. It has 185 HP but is only using 162 HP, Why ? shouldn't it spin the A impellar just as fast ?, That is where I am confused, it is not as if the A impellar has a differeng gear ratio or gear reducer.

The different cuts are making small changes to both the amount of water the impeller moves/rev and the effective diameter at which the water mass is leaving the blades. These small changes have a big impact at the RPMS we are talking about. So using gear terms is sort of OK but it's a little different. The bigger the cut size (A bigger than C), the more water/rev AND the bigger the effective diameter. So for any given rpm, an A cut size creates a bigger torque load and power "need" than a smaller cut.

They are more like torque converters in an auto tranny.
  • Like
    Dislike
    Love
    HaHa
    Angry
    Surprise
    Sad
    Party
Boatless
The older I get, the better I was.

Leadsled

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How do you read an impellar chart ?
« Reply #23 on: August 06, 2009, 01:00:32 PM »
First although some relationship exists there are no actual "parrallels" between Jacuzzi and Berks respective to the "RPM" charts This is particularly true of the YJ as it actually operates on a different principle (axial flow vs "mixed flow)

Tom, thanks for clearing this up.  I had no idea that berks and jacuzzi operate completely different as you stated.  Goes to prove that you do learn something new everyday!!
  • Like
    Dislike
    Love
    HaHa
    Angry
    Surprise
    Sad
    Party

Danger731

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: How do you read an impellar chart ?
« Reply #24 on: August 06, 2009, 01:59:55 PM »
I guess before I worry about subjective power issues I need to know which cut and pump I have. There may be no issues at all. The seller said it was a D.
  • Like
    Dislike
    Love
    HaHa
    Angry
    Surprise
    Sad
    Party
76 Sleekcraft Executive 460

 


Null

SMFPacks CMS 1.0.3 © 2026