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Joecochrane

  • Karma: +0/-0
newbie pump question
« on: May 16, 2014, 09:45:14 AM »
First jet boat haven't even had her in the water yet just trying to learn what I have. My pump says 12jb-a on it  but I was told it looks like a jc and that a jb is a split bowl. From what I gathered A is my impeller any clue what kinda rpm id see out of a mild 455 in a rogers cyclone with this impeller?  And how much bennefit would I see out of a place diveter?  My unrealalistic goal would be a high 60 mph boat that came out of the hole really hard.
  • Boat #1: 1970 rogers cyclone
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I can't afford to go fast but I make up for it by going really loud.

lbhsbz

  • Karma: +29/-1
Re: newbie pump question
« Reply #1 on: May 16, 2014, 11:35:19 AM »
Berk pumps (non insert style) are all the same.  The only difference is the bowl.  You have a C bowl, or one piece bowl.  You can put a diverter, but no droop.  I don't see any reason why that boat shouldn't run in the 60s if the pump is in decent shape.

If you don't know the history on that pump, or if the boat has been sitting for a while, I would strongly suggest replacing the thrust bearing and inspecting the impeller/wear ring/bowl bushings.  Spending a little now can save a lot later.
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Joecochrane

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: newbie pump question
« Reply #2 on: May 16, 2014, 11:42:58 AM »
Whts a good source for a rebuild kit for the pump?
  • Boat #1: 1970 rogers cyclone
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keithwidney

  • Karma: +4/-0
Re: newbie pump question
« Reply #3 on: May 16, 2014, 12:48:50 PM »
Is this Joe Cochrane from anza?
  • Boat #1: 1978 ranger jet
  • Boat #2: 1965 nescher flatbottom
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Joecochrane

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: newbie pump question
« Reply #4 on: May 17, 2014, 12:46:19 AM »
Technicaly Aguanga and right now henderson nevada. And some times on the water in Palo verde ca.
  • Boat #1: 1970 rogers cyclone
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1975_Challenger_461

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: newbie pump question
« Reply #5 on: May 17, 2014, 01:07:18 AM »
I have a c bowl. I would say save your money on the diverter. I spent the money and found real quick that the rooster is only 5-8 feet off the surface. The nozzle is directed down from the get go and the diverter for our bowls doesn't give us much. There are some tech articles on people grinding out the arm and the top of the diverter where it seals with the nozzle. I did this and saw little to no gains. Save your money and run it how it is.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using SoCal Jet Boats mobile app

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"I'm a simple man....
I like lolie pops in my mouth and butter in my ass."

beerjet

  • Karma: +81/-0
Re: newbie pump question
« Reply #6 on: May 17, 2014, 01:49:57 AM »
I have a c bowl. I would say save your money on the diverter. I spent the money and found real quick that the rooster is only 5-8 feet off the surface. The nozzle is directed down from the get go and the diverter for our bowls doesn't give us much. There are some tech articles on people grinding out the arm and the top of the diverter where it seals with the nozzle. I did this and saw little to no gains. Save your money and run it how it is.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using SoCal Jet Boats mobile app
So much of me wants to disagree with you.... And I'll tell you why.
Every hull is different, even the same hull out of the same mold can be different to some degree.
Most boats in those days were being popped out like zits on a fat girls ass.
So they have a tendency to vary and the rogers hulls , 9 times out 10 like a droop which changes the pin angle that the C bowl is at...
Which is why that boat originally came with a JB.
My suggestion would be to get your hands on a diverter (after a pump rebuild of course) and then put it through the paces.
If it responds well, look for a split bowl , droop , and diverter.
Not to mention you are gonna want to get the deep bow entry up and out of the water, and that fact alone has been proven .

Another thing, people were grinding away at the diverters to get more roost, which will NEVER get you more mph.
Depending on set up, the roost should be 3 to 6 ft above the water is where most boats run the best.
These old Rogers hulls are no mystery.
I'm sure Brad could tell exactly where that boat like to run.

Anyways, good luck, and cool boat.

-beerjet-

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keithwidney

  • Karma: +4/-0
Re: newbie pump question
« Reply #7 on: May 17, 2014, 04:17:01 AM »
What a small world .Joe I met you about 5 years ago at the canyon lake back waters .I had a flat black kawi 650 Sx with foot holds .we were bull shitting and you were telling me about your buddy with the samurais. A couple months later I ended up hanging out with my buddy Danny Anderson and I met that ***  muscle milk (Jason evans).
  • Boat #1: 1978 ranger jet
  • Boat #2: 1965 nescher flatbottom
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1975_Challenger_461

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: newbie pump question
« Reply #8 on: May 17, 2014, 07:46:27 AM »
Sounds like I should do the same. I hate mine.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using SoCal Jet Boats mobile app

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"I'm a simple man....
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beerjet

  • Karma: +81/-0
Re: newbie pump question
« Reply #9 on: May 17, 2014, 10:35:19 AM »
Sounds like I should do the same. I hate mine.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using SoCal Jet Boats mobile app
I always say, anything is worth a try.
Most of these 70's boats are copies (almost directly) of other "original" molds so a good starting point as far as set up is already proven.
People will always say, "reset the intake, reset the motor, machine for a shoe and ride plate, put a Diverter on it." Mainly because they were being popped out so fast, proper set up wasn't exactly top priority.
You see all these guys ripping their boats apart and redoing everything and it's mainly just to have a good starting point.
If you can barrow some hardware, perfect!
Give it a shot!
At some point you'll run across a guy with your exact same boat and motor and he's hauling ass.


-beerjet-

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MorePower

  • Karma: +20/-0
Re: newbie pump question
« Reply #10 on: May 17, 2014, 03:05:31 PM »
I've got a JC with diverter and I don't get a huge roost, but that wasn't my intent of adding The diverter. The ride difference is amazing!

Like beerjet said, all will be different. Plus it's river time, get on the water and ponder during the winter lol


Sent with my Fingers

  • Boat #1: 1974 18ft Southwind
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More2LifeThanMPG

  • Karma: +13/-0
Re: newbie pump question
« Reply #11 on: May 17, 2014, 06:13:04 PM »
Is it just me or is that a JC bowl with JE nozzle...?

Additionally I have a mini day, but my diverter on a JC made a big difference. Also overly high roost is all show, there is not real proven gain past 8ft.


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  • Boat #1: 1989 Howard 21' River Cruiser
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beerjet

  • Karma: +81/-0
Re: newbie pump question
« Reply #12 on: May 17, 2014, 09:04:38 PM »
Is it just me or is that a JC bowl with JE nozzle...?



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That is an early C bowl nozzle.

-beerjet-

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Joecochrane

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: newbie pump question
« Reply #13 on: May 17, 2014, 11:03:55 PM »
So do i have a b/c hybrid pump? Is there a reason behind this or is my pump a cobbled together pos? 
  • Boat #1: 1970 rogers cyclone
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beerjet

  • Karma: +81/-0
Re: newbie pump question
« Reply #14 on: May 17, 2014, 11:14:26 PM »
So do i have a b/c hybrid pump? Is there a reason behind this or is my pump a cobbled together pos?
The stamps stay on the suction housing.
At some point, it had a B bowl ) split bowl) and being more desirable, someone probably swapped it out for the C bowl on there now.

-beerjet-

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Joecochrane

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: newbie pump question
« Reply #15 on: May 18, 2014, 12:22:40 AM »
So is a c bowl better than a b/g split bowl if so why? 
  • Boat #1: 1970 rogers cyclone
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Flusher

  • Karma: +84/-0
Re: newbie pump question
« Reply #16 on: May 18, 2014, 01:41:58 AM »
So is a c bowl better than a b/g split bowl if so why?

The late Berkeley G bowl has the advantage of a flange that allows you to bolt on the droop of your choice; however you can still add a Place Diverter to your C bowl.  Another advantage of the later G bowls over early Berkeley split bowls is that there is less volume around the impeller in the late G bowls and therefore the pump will build pressure faster.

I have heard that the Berkeley C bowls actually flow better than the Berkeley split bowls.  I do believe that it is not so much flow as it is water control.  The vanes in the C bowl are longer than those in the split bowls.  My theory is that, the vanes are carried further back in the bowl, helping to straighten the water after being spun by the impeller.  I also believe that there is very little volume between the vanes and the nozzle for turbulence, therefore laminar flow is maintained until discharged through the nozzle, developing more thrust.

I wouldn’t waste any money on acquiring an early split bowl.  You would see a noticeable gain if you have your C bowl detailed, but I think I would spend money on detailing your impeller and adding an inducer before bowl work.  If you really are set on upgrading to a split bowl or when you are ready, I highly recommend making the switch to a Dominator bowl.  Our testing indicates that an unmodified Dominator bowl is equivalent to a fully-detailed Berkeley G bowl.

This all assumes that your current bowl is in good condition.  If there is any damage to the vanes, especially on the leading edges, performance goes south quick.

FWIW, I think a Place Diverter is a wise investment regardless.  I also consider a loader to be a must-have item.

Cheers,

Joe
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"I want to roll with my brother Joe" - Joe Bateman - January 29, 1950 ~ November 27, 2013

Joecochrane

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: newbie pump question
« Reply #17 on: May 18, 2014, 02:21:53 AM »
Good info thanks
  • Boat #1: 1970 rogers cyclone
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