SoCal Jet Boats
Tech Talk => Jet Pumps => Topic started by: Patch on June 05, 2013, 07:21:43 PM
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I have a 20.5 Advantage Classic closed bow with a AT-309 pump with hydraulic turbine trim. With the engine off the steering feels normal, but when the engine is running and in the water the steering gets very stiff. I have replaced the stock steering with a rotary unit and no change. I even replaced the entire steering and trim set up with a new unit, no change what so ever. I have routed the steering cable different ways with no change. With both of the steering systems with engine off it feels like every other jet that I have ever owned or driven, but put it in the water and fire it up it becomes a chore to steer. Any sugestions? It has been driving me crazy.
Thanks. :banghead:
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I have a 20.5 Advantage Classic closed bow with a AT-309 pump with hydraulic turbine trim. With the engine off the steering feels normal, but when the engine is running and in the water the steering gets very stiff. I have replaced the stock steering with a rotary unit and no change. I even replaced the entire steering and trim set up with a new unit, no change what so ever. I have routed the steering cable different ways with no change. With both of the steering systems with engine off it feels like every other jet that I have ever owned or driven, but put it in the water and fire it up it becomes a chore to steer. Any sugestions? It has been driving me crazy.
Thanks. :banghead:
That is really weird.
I had a boat do this years ago, it was a worn bowl, the area where the steering nozzle gimbals into the bowl was worn to the point that when under pressure the o-rings pushed against the bowl super hard, causing the steering to get stiff.. Had to reshape the machined are with Belzona and the problem went away, otherwise it would have been a new bowl..
Got any pictures?
Maybe the same thing?
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Come on Glen... Lets diagnose it.
What changes, in the steering, when the engine is running?
Does the steering have the same stiffness with the reverse bucket open and closed while the engine is running?
Does the steering stiffness change with speed or RPM, or is it about the same stiffness when the engine is running under all conditions and easy when the engine shut off?
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Come on Glen... Lets diagnose it.
What changes, in the steering, when the engine is running?
Does the steering have the same stiffness with the reverse bucket open and closed while the engine is running?
Does the steering stiffness change with speed or RPM, or is it about the same stiffness when the engine is running under all conditions and easy when the engine shut off?
Thought I already may have.... :sly: The old squirting O-ring syndrome... :P
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Questions and answers before guesses, my son.
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Questions and answers before guesses, my son.
Already asked if he had a picture.... Jeeeze...
Sent from my SGH-T989 using SoCalJetBoats mobile app
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No I do not have any pictures. It is stiff in reverse as well as forward. The steering gets stiffer with increasing rpms. It has also been the same after changing o-rings. I do not know what the bowl vanes should look like or if they are worn. I do remember from my last rebuild the vanes on the impellor side of the bowl are not straight. More like a concave toward the bowl. It gets very tiring turning while pulling tubers or turning alot at speed.
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Ok, what is "normal" with the engine off? With a single cable swinging only a nozzle, you should be able to stick a single finger through a steering wheel spoke and go from lock to lock, engine off.
If you need to use much more force than that, something is wrong.
One more question. Engine running, is it just as difficult to turn the nozzle as it is to return it to the straight position, or is it easier to bring it back from full lock to straight?
With a new condition rack/cable setup, it should almost self center if you're on the throttle.
I've never heard of a rotary system on a jet... Is it a dual cable? What rotary system did you buy? There are a bunch of NFB rotary systems out there...which use a screwed up series of clutches in the helm the work....poorly, and are designed for outboards that tend to pull one direction.
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Engine off on finger steering. It is just has hard to steer when recentering the steering. The original steering was some sort of drum that went on the steering shaft. I replaced that with a Teleflex single cable unit from River Speed and Sport in Blythe. Brad out there has used these in jets for years. There isn't enough room for a rack unit under my dash, unless i was able to route the cable to the right side of the boat. I still dont think a rack will fit.
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Wait, easy to turn, hard to center?
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Patch- Not to insult you, but did you check to ensure that both of your nozzle pins are still there? Sounds like the nozzle might be cocking under thrust. But I also think the thrust would break the casting if one was missing....just thinking out loud.........
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Grab the nozzle and wiggle it up and down, boy, that sounds kinda dirty...
It sounds like you have two problems, one, the steering tube is too tight and two, bad string king pin bushings.
Without seeing it, tough to diagnose over the internet.
Sent from my SGH-T989 using SoCalJetBoats mobile app
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I should have proof read my last responce. (to many beers) :beer: I meant engine off one finger steering. It is just as hard to steer when recentering the steering as well as normal turning. The nozzle doesn't have any slop. I have had several people look at my steering connection at the pump and all have agreed it looks fine. It has done this with two steering and nozzle set ups. How would I check the bowl? I dont know how it should look.
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It sure sounds like its in the cable or the nozzle is moving and jamming up. Next time you back it into the water, disconnect the steering from the pump, leave the boat strapped to the trailer, fire it up, go grab the nozzle and try to
Turn it. That'll get us some headway on the diag. Also, put your
Hand on the various joints of the nozzle while someone else starts the engine, you'll be able to feel if something is moving.
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The thrust alone should
"Self center" the nozzle.
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Finally made it back to the river for the fourth. I checked the nozzle with the boat running in the water on the trailer. Everything seams fine. All pins seam fine and there isn't any leakage from the o-rings. Nothing is loose or binding. I did here a couple of strange noises when I fired up the boat in the lagoon at Queshon Park kind of a squeel from the pump. I don't know if its the thrust bearing or tail shaft bushings. I guess I need to go back to Blythe and pull it apart. Might be time for a new bowl. I will post pics when I get it apart to see what you guys think. It was still an awesome five days on the river though.
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Did you ever find the cause, I have the same problem.....
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I had a similar problem.
Trashed the rotary style helm and put in a rack unit.... BOOM!
No problems, just solutions.
-beerjet-
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Might be that diverter
I had a american turbine diverter on mine when i got it, and the steering was stiff, i was chasing another problem and switched it a place diverter and steering is way smoother now
SRC