tmorgan

  • Karma: +0/-0
to rudder or not
« on: April 03, 2016, 11:05:39 PM »
I'm runnin a jc pump with a place diverter and have had a few people tell me to ditch the rudder. My concern is will I risk spin outs and is it really worth it if I'm not racing and what kind of difference in handling should I expect if I take it off? Thanks for any advice
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jimpen

  • Karma: +68/-0
Re: to rudder or not
« Reply #1 on: April 04, 2016, 08:45:54 AM »
Most everybody doesn't run a rudder. Not much difference if any.


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steves86ta

  • Karma: +41/-0
Re: to rudder or not
« Reply #2 on: April 04, 2016, 08:59:44 AM »
you should be fine without it.
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GT Jets

  • Karma: +192/-0
Re: to rudder or not
« Reply #3 on: April 04, 2016, 09:08:34 AM »
I'm runnin a jc pump with a place diverter and have had a few people tell me to ditch the rudder. My concern is will I risk spin outs and is it really worth it if I'm not racing and what kind of difference in handling should I expect if I take it off? Thanks for any advice

What type of boating?  What hull?

Where the rudder really shines is low speed, high current situations and pulling 200+ lb. skiers.

You will likely not see any performance gains removing it. It's not hurting anything. It's just one more thing to be careful of in the shallows.

You may need a new (shorter) pivot pin depending on what rudder.

GT

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  • Boat #1: 1992 Carrera 20.5 Elite (I/O bitches)
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If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

Time to man up and yank it John!  :banghead:
Ray

steves86ta

  • Karma: +41/-0
Re: to rudder or not
« Reply #4 on: April 04, 2016, 09:10:34 AM »
What type of boating?  What hull?

Where the rudder really shines is low speed, high current situations and pulling 200+ lb. skiers.

You will likely not see any performance gains removing it. It's not hurting anything. It's just one more thing to be careful of in the shallows.

You may need a new (shorter) pivot pin depending on what rudder.

GT

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GT, My pump used to have a rudder.. i have since shit canned it.

I am still using the longer pin for a rudder though. Any reason not to?
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  • Karma: +192/-0
Re: to rudder or not
« Reply #5 on: April 04, 2016, 11:02:34 AM »
GT, My pump used to have a rudder.. i have since shit canned it.

I am still using the longer pin for a rudder though. Any reason not to?

The only real reason to eliminate a rudder is to reduce parasitic drag,  if the pin hangs down in the flow,  would that not still create the same drag?

Doubt it's an issue on a JC, but still.

GT

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If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

Time to man up and yank it John!  :banghead:
Ray

steves86ta

  • Karma: +41/-0
Re: to rudder or not
« Reply #6 on: April 04, 2016, 11:07:11 AM »
i think my old berkeley nozzle is more of a drag than that little pin...

one of these days ill put my big boy pants on and go to a real nozzle/diverter
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tmorgan

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: to rudder or not
« Reply #7 on: April 04, 2016, 11:54:00 AM »
its on an eliminator bubble deck i pull some skiers and tubes occasionally. With the water levels the way they are now it might just be better to have one less thing to worry about.
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GT Jets

  • Karma: +192/-0
Re: to rudder or not
« Reply #8 on: April 04, 2016, 12:28:17 PM »
Just to throw it out there.
Most rudder installs "might" cost you 1/2 a mph or less.
If you are looking for big gains, look elsewhere.

JMO

GT
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If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

Time to man up and yank it John!  :banghead:
Ray

CommJet

  • Karma: +2/-0
Re: to rudder or not
« Reply #9 on: April 04, 2016, 02:10:27 PM »
When running is shallow water, you risk clipping the rudder and ripping your diverter/nozzle off your pump. It happened to me last year. The risk out ways the reward. I will never run a rudder again. Just my experience.
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  • Karma: +192/-0
Re: to rudder or not
« Reply #10 on: April 04, 2016, 03:00:40 PM »
When running is shallow water, you risk clipping the rudder and ripping your diverter/nozzle off your pump. It happened to me last year. The risk out ways the reward. I will never run a rudder again. Just my experience.

We ripped a nozzle off the rock dodger without a rudder. IMHO you missed it by less than 6".

The rudder didn't cause it, the shallow water did.

BTW, we were running in less than a foot of water,  but found an old submerged tree branch.

A drop of pee may have come out, as we were going about 80mph when we hit.

JMO. You may have had an issue with our without a rudder.

GT
  • Boat #1: 1992 Carrera 20.5 Elite (I/O bitches)
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If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

Time to man up and yank it John!  :banghead:
Ray

CommJet

  • Karma: +2/-0
Re: to rudder or not
« Reply #11 on: April 04, 2016, 03:10:51 PM »
Doubt it
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GT Jets

  • Karma: +192/-0
Re: to rudder or not
« Reply #12 on: April 04, 2016, 07:49:51 PM »
Doubt it

I don't.


The rudder is not made of plate steel, it's cast aluminum.

FWIW.

GT
  • Boat #1: 1992 Carrera 20.5 Elite (I/O bitches)
  • Boat #2: 19' Bubble deck Jet BBC Berkeley
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If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

Time to man up and yank it John!  :banghead:
Ray

CommJet

  • Karma: +2/-0
Re: to rudder or not
« Reply #13 on: April 04, 2016, 08:10:36 PM »
Same as the nozzle and it's linkages which can and will break at its weakest point. I am simply expressing my opinion and experience. Thanks again for yours.
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steves86ta

  • Karma: +41/-0
Re: to rudder or not
« Reply #14 on: April 04, 2016, 08:23:32 PM »
Same as the nozzle and it's linkages which can and will break at its weakest point. I am simply expressing my opinion and experience. Thanks again for yours.
That looks like an old place diverter design. Maybe those are weaker?  Idk
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GT Jets

  • Karma: +192/-0
Re: to rudder or not
« Reply #15 on: April 04, 2016, 08:34:12 PM »
That looks like an old place diverter design. Maybe those are weaker?  Idk

Old JF Berkeley.

Sort of wonky design.

GT
  • Boat #1: 1992 Carrera 20.5 Elite (I/O bitches)
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If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

Time to man up and yank it John!  :banghead:
Ray

selbycnlb

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: to rudder or not
« Reply #16 on: April 04, 2016, 10:37:31 PM »
I hit the beach going 30 about seven years back it snapped the rudder right off. Pump has run cool since. Finally got a new rudder a year back only helps around the dock even then not much.


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More2LifeThanMPG

  • Karma: +13/-0
Re: to rudder or not
« Reply #17 on: April 05, 2016, 07:07:07 AM »
On my 20' southwind I found it helped a lot of the side to side (dog tail wag) at slow speeds, as well as getting on the trailer. Other than that it was just there.

If one is worried about hitting the rudder, there is a greater issue there. The difference in rudder and hull is only a couple inches, in my onion id rather have the rudder there to hit then the hull or anything else for that matter...


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NEVER WRIEDT

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: to rudder or not
« Reply #18 on: April 05, 2016, 07:47:17 AM »
On my 20' southwind I found it helped a lot of the side to side (dog tail wag) at slow speeds, as well as getting on the trailer. Other than that it was just there.

If one is worried about hitting the rudder, there is a greater issue there. The difference in rudder and hull is only a couple inches, in my onion id rather have the rudder there to hit then the hull or anything else for that matter...


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I felt it helped my 19' Wriedt the same way. Getting it back on the trailer when there is a little wind is probably where I noticed it the most. :thumbup:
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Brian

  • Karma: +2/-0
Re: to rudder or not
« Reply #19 on: April 05, 2016, 01:59:59 PM »
They are easy enough to remove. Why don't you try it 1 day with out and see how you like it. Each boat reacts differently due to size, weight, water conditions, etc, etc. If you notice a difference and don't like it, then put it back on.

I've spun boats out with rudders installed so don't think it's impossible to spin out. It may help prevent it, but it's still possible.

In most boats I have driven, I do notice an improvement in slow speed maneuvering with a rudder installed.
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shadow3621

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: to rudder or not
« Reply #20 on: April 19, 2016, 08:28:14 AM »
Saving this, to show a friend.


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