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kelseyg

  • Karma: +0/-0
U-joint Failure
« on: October 17, 2012, 05:49:25 PM »
I have a 79' Miller mini cruiser and recently had my 454 rebuilt.....since then, I have blown out my u-joints 3 times.  Not sure what is causing this but after last set of u-joints, they blew again within 15 minutes at about 2,500 rpm......Ideas?
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ka0tyk

  • Karma: +30/-0
Re: U-joint Failure
« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2012, 06:03:03 PM »
whats the angle like on it?  take a pic from the top and from the side.
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kelseyg

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: U-joint Failure
« Reply #2 on: October 17, 2012, 06:32:03 PM »
OK, but right now it's still got the blown u-joint and it's off center.......what's confusing me is that it is the same engine, mounts, pump,  and angle that it ran since 80'.......only now blows out the u-joint.  Any chance the pump could be causing this with too much play in the front seal??? It was making a moderate "Humm" noise from the bearing..........
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ka0tyk

  • Karma: +30/-0
Re: U-joint Failure
« Reply #3 on: October 17, 2012, 06:45:27 PM »
what ujoints are you putting in it?  dont use china junk autozone or pepboys ujoints.  get spicer 1310's directly for a spicer 1310 ujoint.  (assuming you have a 1310). 

http://www.4wd.com/Jeep-Drivetrain-Jeep-Axles-Differentials/1310-Series-U-Joint.aspx?t_c=12&t_s=515&t_pt=3624&t_pn=D%2FS5-153X

too little angle and too much angle are killers of ujoints.  thats why i was asking for pix.
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GT Jets

  • Karma: +192/-0
Re: U-joint Failure
« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2012, 08:05:08 PM »
You have something in your drive shaft geometry completely FUBAR..

A typical drive line can go thousand of hours with minimal maintenance without failure at 500+HP

I'm with ka0tyk  Need pics........even with the puked joint... Carnage, we like carnage. :thumbup:
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  • Boat #1: 1992 Carrera 20.5 Elite (I/O bitches)
  • Boat #2: 19' Bubble deck Jet BBC Berkeley
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Quote from: Brad @ SoCalJetBoats.com on December 22, 2009, 07:40:31 PM
If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

Quote from: IRRebel on June 11, 2011, 07:30:45 PM
Time to man up and yank it John!  :banghead:
Ray

IRRebel

  • Karma: +16/-0
Re: U-joint Failure
« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2012, 08:53:03 PM »
Quote from: GT Jets on October 17, 2012, 08:05:08 PM
You have something in your drive shaft geometry completely FUBAR..

A typical drive line can go thousand of hours with minimal maintenance without failure at 500+HP

I'm with ka0tyk  Need pics........even with the puked joint... Carnage, we like carnage. :thumbup:

Especially when it ain't ours!  :thumbup:  :beer:

And actually, probably 95% of the ones I've seen have the original joints in them from the 70's and 80's. Generally, I just change them as a matter of process if I have the line out anyway.

Since you mention this has just been happening since the engine was out and reinstalled is not a coincidence. Did you do the removal/reinstall or someone else?

Be sure to get a few snapshots of the motor mounts or plates and/or bellhousing and how it's all mounted to the stringers. I have a strong suspicion something went back in quite a bit different than it came out throwing your driveline alignment, and possibly maybe even jamming it too far rearward so there's no room for it to slide in and out on the jet pump splines as it needs.   ;)

Ray
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"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways totally worn out shouting 'Holy Shit what a ride!"---Crewcheif22 AKA Keith

kelseyg

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: U-joint Failure
« Reply #6 on: October 18, 2012, 05:29:38 PM »
OK, I will get some pictures as suggested......the first re-install was done by rebuilder; Newport Marine....the second and third I did but tried to keep matching pieces.  U-joints bought a Dana Marine, but don't recall make......will check it out.  Now that I'm a 'desk jockey', looking for someone willing to investigate and repair.
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IRRebel

  • Karma: +16/-0
Re: U-joint Failure
« Reply #7 on: October 18, 2012, 06:09:40 PM »
Quote from: kelseyg on October 18, 2012, 05:29:38 PM
OK, I will get some pictures as suggested......the first re-install was done by rebuilder; Newport Marine....the second and third I did but tried to keep matching pieces.  U-joints bought a Dana Marine, but don't recall make......will check it out.  Now that I'm a 'desk jockey', looking for someone willing to investigate and repair.

A few good pics and some of us can tell you whats going on most likely. I have a pretty good idea what happened, and so does GT!  8)  Pics that include the stringers in them will help immensely.

Ray
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"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways totally worn out shouting 'Holy Shit what a ride!"---Crewcheif22 AKA Keith

kelseyg

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: U-joint Failure
« Reply #8 on: October 24, 2012, 06:17:11 PM »
Here are my pics.........please help!
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GT Jets

  • Karma: +192/-0
Re: U-joint Failure
« Reply #9 on: October 24, 2012, 07:56:03 PM »
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  • Boat #1: 1992 Carrera 20.5 Elite (I/O bitches)
  • Boat #2: 19' Bubble deck Jet BBC Berkeley
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Quote from: Brad @ SoCalJetBoats.com on December 22, 2009, 07:40:31 PM
If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

Quote from: IRRebel on June 11, 2011, 07:30:45 PM
Time to man up and yank it John!  :banghead:
Ray

Squirrel Master

  • Karma: +7/-0
Re: U-joint Failure
« Reply #10 on: October 25, 2012, 02:30:06 PM »
that pic didnt help u pics from above jet n drive line and maybe step back n get hull motor n drive from as close to center boat as possible
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  • Boat #1: 1976 Sleekcraft Kauia
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kelseyg

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: U-joint Failure
« Reply #11 on: October 25, 2012, 05:36:10 PM »
Sorry guys......here are the rest of the pics I thought I attached.............
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IRRebel

  • Karma: +16/-0
Re: U-joint Failure
« Reply #12 on: October 25, 2012, 08:17:56 PM »
Well, I think driveline angle is obviously the problem!  O0

First, the crankshaft centerline is WAY too high to the pumpshaft centerline (You want about a 2* deflection). AND it is not anywhere near centered left/right port/starboard.

The second is not a huge issue, deflection there ALSO helps cycle the bearings in the u-joints, and that is the reason for the deflection. You have good U-Joints, with zerks.

Doesn't look to me that the motor mount "feet" attached to the stringers were disturbed, hard to say in the pics, are the holes excessively oblonged, or WERE they removed at any time?

Also looks a little "tight" to the pump, but if the thrust bearing is OK with it, then so am I.

Just a thought, but might want to break out a torque wrench and make sure the intake is solid to the hull and the pump is solid to the intake, just to take that out of the equation. I don't think that's it, but best to check anyway. 

Edit: What is this chinga-dera jammed in the motor mount?

« Last Edit: October 25, 2012, 08:30:57 PM by IRRebel »
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"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways totally worn out shouting 'Holy Shit what a ride!"---Crewcheif22 AKA Keith

GT Jets

  • Karma: +192/-0
Re: U-joint Failure
« Reply #13 on: October 25, 2012, 08:55:35 PM »
Ray, Those are mortise and tenon style mount feet... Normal..

Agree on the alignment and it looks as though the drive shaft is going way deep into the pump, could simply be because of the failed joint.

There should be about 1/4" to 3/8" of movement left over in the splines... Have you switched from a flex plate to a flywheel? seen that one before...

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  • Boat #1: 1992 Carrera 20.5 Elite (I/O bitches)
  • Boat #2: 19' Bubble deck Jet BBC Berkeley
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Quote from: Brad @ SoCalJetBoats.com on December 22, 2009, 07:40:31 PM
If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

Quote from: IRRebel on June 11, 2011, 07:30:45 PM
Time to man up and yank it John!  :banghead:
Ray

kelseyg

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: U-joint Failure
« Reply #14 on: October 26, 2012, 04:24:44 PM »
To my knowledge, everything is stock and original mounts.  I don't believe the newport rebuilder even pulled the motor as he did a top-end rebuild.  I'm ready for a professional help /alignment as I have pulled it twice now and fear I'm not getting the alignment right....

Any ideas in my area.......SO OC or No San Diego???
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