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Messages - Stevecat

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176
Hulls / Re: Viagra for my boat?
« on: May 16, 2009, 04:28:15 PM »
Is it pretty much a stocker motor? Guess on horsepower?
I would be surprised if it is anything special. We need a Ford expert to tell me what typical HP for a plain BBF would be.. 300? 350?

177
Hulls / Re: Viagra for my boat?
« on: May 16, 2009, 12:18:27 PM »

If memory serves these were "short decked" (not dicked)  ;D boats,
GT

Just shy of 8' from tip of bow to steering wheel.

"Just for fun" I just measured where the cg is now: 68-69" forward of keel/transom intersection.

178
Hulls / Re: Viagra for my boat?
« on: May 16, 2009, 08:40:29 AM »
Thanks for the ideas so far - keep them coming!

Just to clarify - the boat did the same thing before I moved the engine. I agree that engine and fuel location is important for high speed boats - like 60+mph. But I'm just trying to get to 50 and I am committed to leaving the motor where it is at.

And the motor will spin higher than 4k, I just don't go there. I want the boat running and can't afford to trash an engine.

FYI - moving 600#'s of motor forward 20" on a boat with a total weight of 2100# only changes the cg location by about 3-5" (you have 1500#'s left with the weight distributed more or less evenly). I know that once the hull gets high enough up out of the water this 3-5" can make a big difference, but I have a lot of hull still down in the water so I don't think cg location is the culprit. (I'll get a couple of people sit in the back (either side of the motor) and if cg is the issue I should see a little bit of speed improvement.

I am more focused on what hasn't changed which is 1) hull shape, 2) pump condition, and 3) thrust axis. Somebody mentioned this isn't a "performer" hull but it doesn't look much different from any other "good" hull below the water line. I know this hull will never be a "fast" boat I just want 50mph. If a 20+' cruiser hull can get over 40mph on a stock BBF then I'm thinking this hull can hit 50 it just has something else wrong.

Is 2100# a reasonable weight for an 18' boat? I think my hull bottom is laid up like 1/4"-3/8" average. And is 8" height between pump CL and keel bottom typical?

I think I need more info - gotta find out what's inside the pump.


179
Hulls / Viagra for my boat?
« on: May 15, 2009, 02:06:59 PM »
Back before I found SCJB, I thought my boat was OK. But now I have "speed envy." I need your opinions on what might be "wrong". Here's what I know and don't know:

I bought the boat and used it the summers of '96 & '97. It is a 1976 Apollo, which is probably a splash of a splash of a splash. I have attached a picture of what the shape of bottom looks like. 18' long. Just weighed it and with full gear, 1/2 full gas tanks but no crew it is 2,100#. For those two seasons, the boat was "stock" with the motor all the way back against the pump. All I used it for was skiing and tubing the kids. 3,000 rpm = 30-32mph. 4,000 rpm = 40mph. BBF (don't know what cid 429/460 I assume.) Fuel tanks are in the front. Hull always rode "wet" with the spray coming off about 1' behind the driver.

Then I moved to San Diego for 6 years and never used the boat the whole time. It sat in storage and eventually flooded full of rain water. So when I moved back to OR, I ripped everything out down to the shell, took all wood and foam out - and started from scratch. I changed a bunch of stuff about the layout - I moved the motor forward 20" and changed the seating arrangement. I replaced my jetovator with a PD. Trim angle will have about a 2mph impact good or bad depending on the position. But "best" speed is with only 1 notch up from neutral.

OK, now the boat handles EXACTLY the same as before motor relo. Still doing the same speed at the same rpm. Spray still comes off the hull at about the same location. In other words, moving the motor cg didn't really help or hurt the ride. Based on everything I read online, I would have thought this would have ruined the ride but it wasn't good even with the motor in the "correct" location. Also, I measured the distance from keel bottom to bowl CL and it is 8". I have checked for hook as best I can and I do not believe I have any but it's not something I look at every day.

Never had the pump apart so I don't know what cut impeller or what condition everything is in. Yesterday I found an ad for my same boat (except stock - no whupass on the rigging) on Craigslist and the guy is claiming it will do 60-70 mph but I'm taking off 10mph just because it's crackslist talk. Still - I'm starting to think that either:

a) my pump has serious issues
b) my pump CL is way too high above keel and I need to redo intake or go to a droop
c) my hull sucks.

I would like to do an honest gps 50mph at 4,000-4,500 rpm and I would be happy. Doable?

180
Jet Pumps / Re: tap location for suction housing psi
« on: May 11, 2009, 11:00:44 AM »
This is what I THINK - but it's just my opinion and WTFDIK, I'm not Dr. Phil or anything!  ;)

Suction housing = inlet housing = gullet = big bent pipe where the water comes up and goes into the bowl.

From a standing start to full speed at WOT, the "pressure" inside the inlet housing will change from a slight vacuum to some amount of positive pressure. How much positive pressure will depend on the complex dynamics of each boat's hull, ride angle, impeller size blah blah. The reason it switches from slight vacuum to positive pressure as the hull picks up speed is because it isn't really a pump after the hull speed gets up around 30+ mph. It's some kind of weird hybrid of a pump + a no-bypass compressor. The inlet water isn't being sucked it's being rammed into the mouth of the impeller.

For the "average" boat that is under 60mph hull speed the maximum inlet pressure probably stays under 50psi - maybe way, way lower. For race boats the max pressure can be anywhere from 30 to 100-ish. I doubt there is even a consensus yet on what is good or bad value for pressure, but the race guys (or the ones who talk about it) seem to say that a successful boat will have a small amount of positive inlet pressure, but not too much. (Then again they could be handing out false info just like in a spy movie!)

There are various opinions on why you have to tap at two locations but on most boats, the pressure is not uniform at the impeller inlet. Some people think it is because of the "shadow" of the drive shaft blocking flow to the top of the inlet mouth. Others say it is because the water near the top of the inlet has a longer distance to flow than from the bottom. And there's the mysterious "boundary layer" which is the region of water near the surface of the hull which is flowing "past" the hull at less than full speed. So monitoring a single location will perhaps tell you the wrong story. If you are trying to use pressure info to "tune" loaders, shoes, ride plate, et cetera than you want to watch what is going on near the impeller mouth and at a "high" and "low" location.

181
removed the loose sheet metal baffle plate that has been banging around inside the valve cover for who knows how long!  :-[

I had never had the covers off until now.

The rocker arms have been hitting the sides of the filler/breather baffle plates. The left side actually broke off the spot welds holding it onto the valve cover and it's just been getting the crap beat out of it for some time.  :sly:

This boat stuff just never stops.

182
Engine Mechanical / Electrical / Re: SUNKEN BOAT HELP!!!!
« on: May 05, 2009, 06:45:15 PM »
Hey Cadillac - I feel for you bud. I'd like to chime in on a related matter if you don't mind. Life has just thrown you the obvious curveball which is the sunk boat. But is also threw you a rare opportunity to strengthen or weaken the relationship with the GF. I never recognized them at the actual time they occurred, but looking back I could always say "yeah that was the day our love for one another took a turn for the ------ (whatever)."

In the middle of all the energy you have to throw at recovering the boat, take a minute to decide what and how you want to do with the unexpected relationship energy this has created. If you have strong positive feelings for her, then let her know that you forgive her and will eventually move past it. This is a kind of gift you can give her that will pay off huge later on. Or, if you really don't care that much for her then you can harness this event to clarify what is or isn't working right. Either way, I'm just saying you should harness it as long as it happened.

Sorry for maybe putting myself into something I shouldn't. Good luck with the recovery!

183
WTB / WTB This Kind of Morse Control Lever
« on: May 03, 2009, 01:37:54 PM »
Model CH2300P

Mine is even older style than this one. I am hoping they improved things when this model came out. Anybody got one of these (the skiboat style)?


184
Solved my random stopping problem today. Also adjusted reverser bucket and now it is better and also functional. I noticed that I have significant play up at the control lever linkage (at least by my standards it is significant.) I'm thinking that the new PD and cables just uncorked a problem I always had and didn't know - that my control lever suks. So I'm going to post a WTB for a diff control lever. Thanks for all the helpful suggestions gents!

185
AND the problem was......!!!!!!!!!



Ballast resistor and/or disconnecting elec choke.

I put the resistor in, also disconnected choke wire because I think it is on same circuit leg as +coil (will check this later). Also put in jumper wire to + side post of coil. Fired up took off .... no stoppage!!! Took off jumper wire.... ran around and around and around.... no stop. Going to keep spare coil and the jumper wire on board for awhile just in case.

Thanks to all of you studs for the suggestions! Could not have solved it without you.

186
The No Wake Zone / Re: Help with Driveshaft Covers
« on: May 01, 2009, 11:23:06 AM »
Thanks for the advice guys, does anybody know of one that does not require me to pull my bell housing off or drill holes in it? Does anybody else run these things or is it just me? Seems like a good piece to have doesn't it?


I have a long drive shaft (20") and what I did was take a 5" ID (or something like it) Alum tube and sawed it lengthwise. I also had to notch the ends a little. But I was able to get it shaved down to where it would clamshell clamp itself on the pump housing flange and my farm-boy bell housing mount.

So I can take on/off without pulling ujoints or driveline. I then used two large hose clamps to secure it in place. I can take some pics if this concept helps you at all.

Yes, I think that containing shrapnel during a ujoint failure is nice insurance against sinking the boat. And, it keeps the occasional stray rope or beer can out of harm's way. I used 1/4" wall just to try and make it survive a ujoint failure and 20" floppy drive shaft beatdown.

187
The No Wake Zone / Re: Boat Names You Wanted...................
« on: May 01, 2009, 09:22:44 AM »

Is there any other group of people that can rival the dirty/sexual inuendos that boat owners throw down?????? My guess is no!!

That's a good insight right there! If the politicians would start letting boat owners come up with names for their agendas, we could spice things up and maybe get people more interested in what's going on!!

TARP could be something like "FUBARP"

188
So for the jumper wire check (which is to rule out a short in the keyswitch leg) I am going to jump direct from Batt+ to the black dot on the left side of the resistor in this schematic, right?

And as long as I am distracting myself and everybody else, is the ballast resistor there to allow the coil+ to see slightly higher charge voltage (14-ish) while the excite side of the resistor is dropping a little for the alternator excite???

Many many thanks to whomever originally posted this schematic!

189
So the box just replaces the points?

(I clearly don't know enough to be dangerous about the motor, huh!?) :screwy:

190
OK, the weather is getting better again. I'm getting done with the chores and honeydos.... so now it is time to focus on the beeoatch again.

I could go yank a coil off an old truck I have at my rental unit and dork around trying to swap out ballast resistors and coils... or

Should I just upgrade to a MSD box? This is possible, right? I can leave my dizzy alone but replace/rewire and get rid of the ballast and the coil and go with the red box. If I do this will I be:
a) simplifying my life and increasing the chance that I fix my random motor stopping?  8)

b) expanding my scope of work and dragging out my problems while creating more - just like I always do?  ???


191
The No Wake Zone / Re: the site
« on: April 29, 2009, 06:19:11 PM »

the fact is the site is running out of space quick

Something I have wondered about - if somebody has pics in their post and then I click on the "quote" button to reply, I know that it shows the original pics again in my reply. Does this increase the size of the file (or whatever) because now there are 2X the amount of pics, or are there really only 1 set of pictures and it just appears to be a copy because of computer magic?

I guess what I'm really asking is what eats up capacity on the site - words or pictures? Or is this like impeller cuts and HP curves?? :sly:

192
The No Wake Zone / Re: Boat Names You Wanted...................
« on: April 29, 2009, 05:44:17 PM »
Since my boat was made by Apollo I kept trying to do something with Greek God names but it always sounded gay.

When one of my kids was smaller she couldn't pronounce "sun screen" it kept coming out "sun scream" so that's what the boat is getting for a name: Sunscream

...if I ever finish the fkr.  :banghead: :banghead:

193
Engine Mechanical / Electrical / Re: YET ANOTHER QUESTION.....
« on: April 29, 2009, 05:32:12 PM »
Maybe this will help?

And thanks to whomever posted these diagrams - I think I scraped them off this site long ago!! Whoever you are - U da man!

194
I'd suggest you troubleshoot by checking that cooling water is getting past the control valve and is actually making it into your engine block. You need to be careful where and how you do this. Remember that taking off any of the cooling lines has the potential to let a lot of water into the boat and eventually sink it.

Probably best to do this with the boat on the trailer but jet in the water.

If there IS plenty of water getting to the block, then hook that line(s) back up and then confirm that the water is coming OUT of the block.

If you have low/no water getting to the block then you have something blocking between the engine and the pump. If you have water to the block but not coming out, then you have something inside the motor. Either condition will keep cold water from cooling off your motor.

195
The No Wake Zone / Re: Something that happened today...
« on: April 26, 2009, 07:03:57 PM »
Nice post. Thanks!

196
X2 On your .02c Ray   ;D  Would thay make .04c? ???           :screwy:   

GT

I'm rich!!! :o :o

197
How old are your fuel lines?

Tanks to fuel filter are 1 year.
Fuel filter to fuel pump (18") unknown but old.
Fuel pump to carb unknown but old.

198
Boats For Sale / Re: Craigslist & ebay boats
« on: April 18, 2009, 07:07:07 PM »
And another, picks up Ebay as well.  http://www.craigshelper.com/


Thank you very much for this link dude!

199
Well... it's not the fuel filter. And I guess it's not random. What it does is wait until I think I have fixed it and start goofing around and get far from the dock, THEN it happens.  :sly:

Weather popped out nice today and I got all the chores done so what the hey. Put a new fuel filter in, dropped it in the water, tied off to the dock and said "I'm not leaving this spot, period." Fired up the motor, let it idle for 20 minutes. Wiggled the chit out of all the coil and ballast wires, the dizzy the condensor ... nada. Had a nice chat with some tree huggers in a rowboat. Wiggled the chit out of the wires again. Turned off the engine. Started again. Said OK it WAS the fuel filter. Let off the dock.. tooled around in the NWZ. All is good. Total time that motor has been running is way more than any of the previous 2X.  Get out of NWZ and head up river only 1000 feet, start circling round and round. All is good. Do this for 5 minutes. Get more confidence. Start ripping up and down near the dock but get farther and farther away.... All is good. Problemo must be solved.

45 minutes into it I am thinking about how much fun to make this post and say it was just the fuel filter!



And of course, that's when it stops dead - no cough no nuttin. :mad:

But at least this time I had something seem like cause and effect. I tried restart without really doing anything and it wouldn't fire. I jiggled the ballast and coil wires - fired right up. So just like yall been saying, next time I'm taking new resistor and diff coil with me. That won't be for at least a week. Gotta make some money first.


200
Yeah without a doubt the neutral thing is just a matter of more gate over the ass.

But on the full reverse thing is what I'm crying about. Ryanb's got a good point though. I need to have some eyeballs on what is really happening in full reverse in the water instead of dryhumping in the garage and thinking everything is GTG.

Weather still sucks and will be getting good just in time for me having to fly to Detroit for 1 week.  :banghead:

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