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HDriderTH

  • Karma: +12/-0
Re: Motor stopping at random. How do I troubleshoot?
« Reply #25 on: April 13, 2009, 07:52:47 PM »
gotta little certificate and everything, was in the bridge of the Spirit
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Stevecat

  • Karma: +2/-0
Re: Motor stopping at random. How do I troubleshoot?
« Reply #26 on: April 13, 2009, 07:56:31 PM »
gotta little certificate and everything, was in the bridge of the Spirit

What kind of hole shot was she good for?!
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HDriderTH

  • Karma: +12/-0
Re: Motor stopping at random. How do I troubleshoot?
« Reply #27 on: April 13, 2009, 07:59:09 PM »
about a 3 minute 60 foot time
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Stevecat

  • Karma: +2/-0
Re: Motor stopping at random. How do I troubleshoot?
« Reply #28 on: April 18, 2009, 05:58:29 PM »
Well... it's not the fuel filter. And I guess it's not random. What it does is wait until I think I have fixed it and start goofing around and get far from the dock, THEN it happens.  :sly:

Weather popped out nice today and I got all the chores done so what the hey. Put a new fuel filter in, dropped it in the water, tied off to the dock and said "I'm not leaving this spot, period." Fired up the motor, let it idle for 20 minutes. Wiggled the chit out of all the coil and ballast wires, the dizzy the condensor ... nada. Had a nice chat with some tree huggers in a rowboat. Wiggled the chit out of the wires again. Turned off the engine. Started again. Said OK it WAS the fuel filter. Let off the dock.. tooled around in the NWZ. All is good. Total time that motor has been running is way more than any of the previous 2X.  Get out of NWZ and head up river only 1000 feet, start circling round and round. All is good. Do this for 5 minutes. Get more confidence. Start ripping up and down near the dock but get farther and farther away.... All is good. Problemo must be solved.

45 minutes into it I am thinking about how much fun to make this post and say it was just the fuel filter!



And of course, that's when it stops dead - no cough no nuttin. :mad:

But at least this time I had something seem like cause and effect. I tried restart without really doing anything and it wouldn't fire. I jiggled the ballast and coil wires - fired right up. So just like yall been saying, next time I'm taking new resistor and diff coil with me. That won't be for at least a week. Gotta make some money first.

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OC2Vegas

  • Karma: +12/-0
Re: Motor stopping at random. How do I troubleshoot?
« Reply #29 on: April 18, 2009, 10:16:04 PM »
How old are your fuel lines?
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HDriderTH

  • Karma: +12/-0
Re: Motor stopping at random. How do I troubleshoot?
« Reply #30 on: April 18, 2009, 10:21:13 PM »
You dont have a unilite do you, they can stop and reset themselves. did you hot wire it yet?
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Stevecat

  • Karma: +2/-0
Re: Motor stopping at random. How do I troubleshoot?
« Reply #31 on: April 19, 2009, 07:30:56 AM »
How old are your fuel lines?

Tanks to fuel filter are 1 year.
Fuel filter to fuel pump (18") unknown but old.
Fuel pump to carb unknown but old.
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electrowoman

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Motor stopping at random. How do I troubleshoot?
« Reply #32 on: April 19, 2009, 10:36:32 AM »
OC are you thinking the same thing I am... sucking the fuel line shut  ::)

The engine shuts off, hose opens up.  vvrrrooommmm till you put rpms to it.

That even happened to my FORD..... ;D
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OC2Vegas

  • Karma: +12/-0
Re: Motor stopping at random. How do I troubleshoot?
« Reply #33 on: April 19, 2009, 10:39:31 AM »
OC are you thinking the same thing I am... sucking the fuel line shut  ::)

The engine shuts off, hose opens up.  vvrrrooommmm till you put rpms to it.

That even happened to my FORD..... ;D

Thats what I was thinking. Running fine till you get in it and then closing up. Cheap to replace, could'nt hurt.
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SLCKREG

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Motor stopping at random. How do I troubleshoot?
« Reply #34 on: April 19, 2009, 06:02:04 PM »
Dang....that's too bad you don't have a fuel pressure gauge.(hint,hint,hint). ;D
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IRRebel

  • Karma: +16/-0
Re: Motor stopping at random. How do I troubleshoot?
« Reply #35 on: April 20, 2009, 05:45:00 PM »
Quote
But at least this time I had something seem like cause and effect. I tried restart without really doing anything and it wouldn't fire. I jiggled the ballast and coil wires - fired right up. So just like yall been saying, next time I'm taking new resistor and diff coil with me. That won't be for at least a week. Gotta make some money first.

;D

Although Jeremy brings up a good possibilty about the fuel hose collapsing on itself. Didn't think of that, and under use, more heat, definate possibility, but IMO I would think it would spit and sputter to a stop were it a fuel issue, even a filter.

I've seen stranger things with ballast resistors. It's not necessarily a case of they either 'work or don't' (Don't know who said that). They are a wirewound deal encased in ceramic.  A small break or crack in the winds could easily be affected by vibration or even temperature (Or water). As I said before, worked on many Mopars with the things, and that was always the first part replaced. (Cost like $8.95 back then)

Also could easily be the coil breaking down, as someone mentioned. Cheap fixes either way. While you're at it, I'd replace the coil to dizzy wire, cap and rotor as well. Might have wiggled that wire, which would indicate the coil, the wire, or the cap connection as the culprit. Shouldn't cost more than $50 to replace all of it. And that is exactly what I'd do. Who cares what caused it if you can replace inexpensixe, easily replaced parts to fix it?

Just my .02, ........again........

Ray
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GT Jets

  • Karma: +192/-0
Re: Motor stopping at random. How do I troubleshoot?
« Reply #36 on: April 20, 2009, 11:15:03 PM »
;D

Although Jeremy brings up a good possibilty about the fuel hose collapsing on itself. Didn't think of that, and under use, more heat, definate possibility, but IMO I would think it would spit and sputter to a stop were it a fuel issue, even a filter.

I've seen stranger things with ballast resistors. It's not necessarily a case of they either 'work or don't' (Don't know who said that). They are a wirewound deal encased in ceramic.  A small break or crack in the winds could easily be affected by vibration or even temperature (Or water). As I said before, worked on many Mopars with the things, and that was always the first part replaced. (Cost like $8.95 back then)

Also could easily be the coil breaking down, as someone mentioned. Cheap fixes either way. While you're at it, I'd replace the coil to dizzy wire, cap and rotor as well. Might have wiggled that wire, which would indicate the coil, the wire, or the cap connection as the culprit. Shouldn't cost more than $50 to replace all of it. And that is exactly what I'd do. Who cares what caused it if you can replace inexpensixe, easily replaced parts to fix it?

Just my .02, ........again........

Ray

X2 On your .02c Ray   ;D  Would thay make .04c? ???           :screwy:   

GT
  • Boat #1: 1992 Carrera 20.5 Elite (I/O bitches)
  • Boat #2: 19' Bubble deck Jet BBC Berkeley
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If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

Time to man up and yank it John!  :banghead:
Ray

Stevecat

  • Karma: +2/-0
Re: Motor stopping at random. How do I troubleshoot?
« Reply #37 on: April 21, 2009, 05:36:59 AM »
X2 On your .02c Ray   ;D  Would thay make .04c? ???           :screwy:   

GT

I'm rich!!! :o :o
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Stevecat

  • Karma: +2/-0
Re: Motor stopping at random. How do I troubleshoot?
« Reply #38 on: April 30, 2009, 04:46:58 PM »
OK, the weather is getting better again. I'm getting done with the chores and honeydos.... so now it is time to focus on the beeoatch again.

I could go yank a coil off an old truck I have at my rental unit and dork around trying to swap out ballast resistors and coils... or

Should I just upgrade to a MSD box? This is possible, right? I can leave my dizzy alone but replace/rewire and get rid of the ballast and the coil and go with the red box. If I do this will I be:
a) simplifying my life and increasing the chance that I fix my random motor stopping?  8)

b) expanding my scope of work and dragging out my problems while creating more - just like I always do?  ???

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IRRebel

  • Karma: +16/-0
Re: Motor stopping at random. How do I troubleshoot?
« Reply #39 on: April 30, 2009, 05:05:55 PM »
You'll still need to run a coil and probably a resistor.

Ray
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Stevecat

  • Karma: +2/-0
Re: Motor stopping at random. How do I troubleshoot?
« Reply #40 on: April 30, 2009, 05:09:55 PM »
So the box just replaces the points?

(I clearly don't know enough to be dangerous about the motor, huh!?) :screwy:
« Last Edit: April 30, 2009, 05:12:04 PM by Stevecat »
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electrowoman

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Motor stopping at random. How do I troubleshoot?
« Reply #41 on: April 30, 2009, 11:21:47 PM »
If you put on a MSD 6AL type box you will just be adding more hard ware to your problem.

1.  You will use ONE set of your points to trigger the box.

2.  You will NOT need the resistor.  That is the only part you will shed.  I would bet that isn't
the problem. 

The box is a great idea, I just wouldn't install it till it's fixed.

Did you check the rotor?  Also make sure you don't have a wire to your points grounding out.

If I were you I'd pray for it not to start   :)  It's much easier to fix...  IMO

Good luck.
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IRRebel

  • Karma: +16/-0
Re: Motor stopping at random. How do I troubleshoot?
« Reply #42 on: April 30, 2009, 11:35:28 PM »
If you wantr to go totally electronic, use a Unilite Dizzy, a Hyfire 6al, and a good coil. (mallory pro coil would be my choice since all the rest is mallory), then you can eliminate the resistor.

A few hundred bucks for all that (What is on the mooo boat).

I would suggest what I already said, replace the coil, resistor, plug and dizzy wires, cap and rotor. It will fix the problem. If it doesn't, I owe you more than a few drinks. But it will.

An msd unit falls under the same problems as std ignitions with connection issues. I agree with electrowoman on this, you are only compounding the problem with an MSD unit.

Ray
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HDriderTH

  • Karma: +12/-0
Re: Motor stopping at random. How do I troubleshoot?
« Reply #43 on: April 30, 2009, 11:40:24 PM »
Put a mag on it.   ::)
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IRRebel

  • Karma: +16/-0
Re: Motor stopping at random. How do I troubleshoot?
« Reply #44 on: May 01, 2009, 12:05:53 AM »
Terry, we need to vote but I think we all agree, you ARE  'The Extreme" lol (Kinda fitting no? ) (Maybe B-rad can change your sign in name too)  ;D

Ray
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electrowoman

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Motor stopping at random. How do I troubleshoot?
« Reply #45 on: May 01, 2009, 12:17:02 AM »
 ;D  ;D   Why not just buy a new boat...

Sorry Rebal... just picking.   We have an electrician in the plant like that.  Throw parts at it till it runs.

He drives me nuts.  I usually have to work on equipment after he leaves and I have the problem of checking all the new parts as well as what originals are left looking for a bad part.

New isn't allways good, sometimes you ADD another problem.

When it could be a switch, broken wire to the ignition, an ignition part, fuel pump, pick up, filter,  etc etc I wouldn't throw parts unless I had a large bank roll.

Remember, don't "hi tech" it till you look at the obvious.   Did you use the jumper to eliminate the switch yet?  If you have a spare coil take it along.

 Make sure the wires to the points can't ground out to the plate.  Vibration could cause it to just touch the plate... down she goes.

I'm betting right in that area if the jumper doesn't cure it.
Rotor, points, connections.




 



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IRRebel

  • Karma: +16/-0
Re: Motor stopping at random. How do I troubleshoot?
« Reply #46 on: May 01, 2009, 12:59:20 AM »
Electrowoman, I repect your position. I ran U-Hual's Technical Center here in Tempe for a couple years and could not beleive what I saw.

Our job was not only to fix the problem, but figure out why. My mission in life are the why's. I get that. There is a line though. (Took a LOT of politicing on my part to get people to sign off on this)

There comes a time when the why's and how's are not important, especially when theres a $10 fix and a $2500 investigation into why its a cheap fix.

In My mind, if you can throw $50 worth of parts at it and fix it, who cares what was wrong? right????

It's all about bottom line.........and the product.

Ray

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IRRebel

  • Karma: +16/-0
Re: Motor stopping at random. How do I troubleshoot?
« Reply #47 on: May 01, 2009, 01:17:05 AM »
I prolly shoulda clarified The $2500 and $10 fix. When you're dealing with some 30,000 trucks out there, doesn't seem a big deal, but it does to you and me. That's how I approched my job. Yeah, from a corporate standpoint, there were issues, and we addressed those, but my major point here is, just fix it. (prolly why I'm no longer with them, but that's another story)

Basically, for you and me, 'tis an easy fix. No problem. If we all had a fleet, which I am working on, then there's the issues of how and why on a failure. Other than that, just get on with it.

Ray
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electrowoman

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Motor stopping at random. How do I troubleshoot?
« Reply #48 on: May 01, 2009, 03:24:51 AM »
I guess I'm the guy saying don't spend $2500 on a $10 fix.

That's to keep my wife happy!

The name electrowoman does not infer a woman here  ;D  It was her ebay handle  ::)

Good luck how ever you procede  ;)
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Stevecat

  • Karma: +2/-0
Re: Motor stopping at random. How do I troubleshoot?
« Reply #49 on: May 01, 2009, 07:50:54 AM »
So for the jumper wire check (which is to rule out a short in the keyswitch leg) I am going to jump direct from Batt+ to the black dot on the left side of the resistor in this schematic, right?

And as long as I am distracting myself and everybody else, is the ballast resistor there to allow the coil+ to see slightly higher charge voltage (14-ish) while the excite side of the resistor is dropping a little for the alternator excite???

Many many thanks to whomever originally posted this schematic!
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