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Messages - obnoxious001

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26
Engine Mechanical / Electrical / Re: Jet boat slowed and motor stopped *HELP*
« on: August 15, 2013, 10:56:10 PM »
Quote from: h20dawg_2nv on August 15, 2013, 08:42:12 PM
Runs on high octane 100+ octane. Or should I say it did run.


89' Eliminator
Stroked BBC Berkley Jet

OK,, I am trying to give you an honest evaluation of what may have happened, but need answers to the items I have asked about. 

100 octane fuel is certainly better than pump gas, but how much compression were you trying to run with it, and was the fuel still fresh? 

The broken valve is a telltale sign, but lots of missing information to be able to field an intelligent guess as to why it broke. 

Ignition timing, static compression, fuel delivery system, fuel octane (which deteriorates with age), load (boats put a continuous load on an engine), cooling system and engine temperature all can end up working against you.

27
Engine Mechanical / Electrical / Re: Jet boat slowed and motor stopped *HELP*
« on: August 15, 2013, 08:13:48 PM »
Quote from: h20dawg_2nv on August 13, 2013, 10:30:36 AM
Was competed 3 weeks ago, have 7.3 hrs since regaining her. The builder says engine issues are on him the owner of machine/motor build shop (builders dad) race engine do not get warranty. Not a race engine just 710 HP of fun.  So needless to say told owner that's BS I didn't drop 5k (I brought all the goodies) to get 704.224 $$ per hour!


89' Eliminator
508BBC Berkley Jet

I would like to know more about the exact parts combination,, and where the "710 HP" figure comes from, especially with a flat tappet cam, unless it's a higher compression engine designed to run on better than pump gas.

28
Engine Mechanical / Electrical / Re: Jet boat slowed and motor stopped *HELP*
« on: August 15, 2013, 06:46:31 PM »
First, not sure KB makes a .090" over piston.  And, a KB Piston to me indicates its hypereutectic, rather than forged.  It could still be an older KB forged piston, or one of their newer "Icon" brand forged pistons.  I would like to know the part number and dome volume, and what heads you have and combustion chamber size.  This is a pump gasoline engine,, what compression was it supposed to be? 

The broken exhaust valve may have caused the incident, depending on compression, fuel octane, and ignition timing. 

I recently rebuilt an engine that was sold to the guy by a shop as "9.6-1 compression".  He brought it to me with holes in three pistons, and signs of detonation on the rest of the set.  Looking at parts and some calculations showed it was  actually about 11.8 or 11.9-1 compression, way out of line for pump gas with his closed chamber iron heads.  Unfortunately that shop had closed and the owner in a serious medical condition so he had no recourse than to have someone else rebuild it correctly.

The cam was probably broken by pieces of piston bouncing around and jamming it up, and the bottom of the cylinders damaged by the rod thrashing around without a piston to keep it centered in the bore. 

29
Engine Mechanical / Electrical / Re: Jet boat slowed and motor stopped *HELP*
« on: August 15, 2013, 05:09:58 PM »
Quote from: h20dawg_2nv on August 14, 2013, 12:15:54 PM

My brother mentioned something about this new crank probably wasn't turning freely, probably the reason for failure.  Any input to what he's saying? Again not a mechanic but familiar to a point around the motor.


It's impossible to know without taking it apart to see what happened, but if someone put an engine together without measuring and checking bearing clearance, and verifying that the crankshaft turned easily prior to putting the rods and pistons in the block, then the guy is no "engine builder". 

There could have been an oiling issue or something else, as I said, once it comes apart the problem should be able to be spotted and verified before it goes back together.

30
Engine Mechanical / Electrical / Re: 1972 Glastron resurrection - 454 engine oiling issue
« on: August 11, 2013, 11:46:15 AM »
Quote from: 72glastron on August 10, 2013, 05:46:27 PM


The oil pressure is likely very high since it blew 2 filter gaskets out.


I understand that, but without a gauge you really don't know how high it is, not the best way to run any engine.   

31
Engine Mechanical / Electrical / Re: 1972 Glastron resurrection - 454 engine oiling issue
« on: August 10, 2013, 04:04:24 PM »
Quote from: 72glastron on August 10, 2013, 03:25:42 PM
Oil and filter was clean no weird stuff.
Engine was primed via drill fixture.
1st new filter was AC pf35?
2nd new filter was a Fram don't remember the #.
(it was Sun. and only local fleet store was open)
walmart open as well, but they only stock fram as well.
small town and selection is pretty limited.

Both filters the seal blew and a LOT of oil dumped.
Refilled it w/ new oil both times and it came out clean.

Only ran the engine for a few seconds each time.

Interesting you mention using a filter w/ built in bypass.
Have a part#?
I have no info on this engine other than it's a 454 built for use in this boat.

You aren't going to fix that type of issue with a different oil filter.  What kind of pressure did the gauge show, both when you primed it and when you fired it up?

32
Engine Mechanical / Electrical / Re: 454 knocking
« on: August 09, 2013, 02:22:02 PM »
Quote from: Bahner87 on August 09, 2013, 01:53:49 PM
Its the original motor that came in the boat. So i don't think thats my issue. It is strange that the oil pressure went to 80psi. Last year i did notice on the gage  it was running higher then normal around 65 to low 70'spsi when i would get on the throttle hard. I don't know if maybe the gage is going out or if it was actually reading correctly or not!?

Perhaps it's possible that some debris went through the oil pump and got stuck in the bypass so it can't open.

33
Engine Mechanical / Electrical / Re: BBC Oil pan Headaches
« on: August 09, 2013, 12:01:25 AM »
Quote from: ka0tyk on August 08, 2013, 11:35:30 PM
i understand...

id love to run a dooley pan etc, but in my last tahiti NOTHING would fit other than a street pan with the panther hump in the bottom.  and i ran it in that boat with no issues, great oil pressure while getting beat up on havasu.  in my bahner i have plenty of room.  someday ill upgrade the pan. 


what type of "marine pan" can you run when you dont have any room to do so?

Not sure what the "panther hump" looks like, but I have several ideas of pans that might have a better "box" at the rear, including automotive circle race type pans that have a rear sump and trap doors (and can be purchased fairly cheap).  I have been talking to a guy about an engine for a jet boat what only has 7 1/2" clearance at the front of the pan, been after him to confirm how far back from the front of the front edge of the engine his interference is, as I have a used Dooley jet pan here that the sump actually stops 2-3 inches shy of the front, different from others I have seen in the past. 

One thing to keep in mind, the pressure gauge only react so quickly, so you can aerate the pump and may not see it on the gauge.  I did an engine for a guy earlier this year, and he kept arguing that his previous open pan had not shown any pressure problems on the gauge.  I showed him his engine bearings (about 5 outings on the engine before a water leak in the exhaust caused major engine problems) side by side with some bearings that had run several times a week in a turbo engine, for a complete year.  He ended up following my suggestion on putting a "real" outdrive type pan on the engine, hopefully it lasts him a bunch longer than 5 trips this time,, made 760 HP on the dyno, I think his Stoker is going to be faster than his wife was planning on going.

34
Engine Mechanical / Electrical / Re: 454 build
« on: August 08, 2013, 11:47:34 PM »
Quote from: k_bruno on August 01, 2013, 10:35:05 PM
So I'm building a 454 for my 1975 21ft hawaiian day cruiser with a berkeley 12jc with an a-2 impeller
I would like to get some opinions on the build
73 Block that is going to .060
73 049 113cc heads
20cc domed pistons.... Should net 10:1 compression
Isky 280 hydrolic flat tapet cam
Hi volume oil pump
Double roller timing kit
King mains and rod bearings .020 over
Edelbrock performer 2.0 manifold
800cfm holley double pumper... Kinda think I need bigger but would like some opinions

People may have different opinions of what combination should be used.  A couple of things come to mind, I calculate out more like 10.25-1 compression with 113 cc heads and 20cc dome, and would encourage you to run more like 9.5-1 compression max with a heavy jet boat like that.  The 280 cam would work, but probably not the "best" choice.  I put a used one in a budget motor (468 cu in)that went into a jet boat, and was run on the dyno at 517 HP, so it was not terrible, but cam selection is based on your total combination, as GT Jets indicated by asking what exhaust you are running.   

You should not need anything larger than 800 cfm, assuming you are still going to run an A impeller and be running around 5000 rpm, a 750 is probably a good choice. 

I have never tried King Bearings.  I know they are cheaper, but build a lot of real nice (read that "expensive") engines, and Clevites have never failed me, so I tend not to sway my choice of engine bearings, with the exception of using Durabond cam bearings.  Once again, no issues with them in many, many years of them in many different engines. 

I do like high volume oil pumps(virtually every engine I have built in 20 plus years), but my bearing clearances are set up to work with them, as well as using larger than stock oil pans.  My engines do not experience bearing or oiling issues, and I have made a few phone calls to the tech department at Mellings to discuss and confirm my combinations.


35
Engine Mechanical / Electrical / Re: BBC Oil pan Headaches
« on: August 08, 2013, 11:30:13 PM »
Quote from: ka0tyk on July 31, 2013, 11:01:26 PM
i grabbed my pan from the long beach high perf swapmeet for like $50.  its coming up soon...  theres a dude there that just sells pans, air cleaners, etc. 





No offense intended, but that is just a street pan, nothing to prevent sloshing or provide extra volume, not really desirable for marine use.  It's extremely likely to cost you a lot of money in the end running it in a boat.

36
Engine Mechanical / Electrical / Re: 454 build help needed
« on: August 08, 2013, 11:24:35 PM »
Quote from: k_bruno on August 04, 2013, 07:59:12 AM
Ok so I'm getting ready to start assembly on my motor but I have this annoying feeling that the guy at isky cams was wrong I have a 280 mega cam that they helped me select but they said I would be fine running it with my stock valve spring... Here is where I am loosing sleep this cam has .565 lift will my springs really be able to keep up with this I have 049 heads with dual valve springs and I was not planing on turning this motor over 5-5300 help please if I need the spring I wanna order them now as not to hang up my build I wanna get out on the water befor the season is cometly over lol

I just had an Isky 278 mega reground to a larger profile for an engine that I rebuilt, actually went to an advertised 294, but the engine is a stroker, 505 cubic inches, and the owner also upgraded heads, so the larger cam is appropriate.  This one has .560 lift, I don't see it as a point of failure, my cam grinder and I have been working closely together for many years with great results, never have had a legitimate cam failure.  (Did have a guy try to break one in with synthetic oil, I can confirm that will not work, and was not what I had recommended to him)

Now would be the time to confirm how much lift those heads are set up to work with, since they probably have been rebuilt at least a couple of times or so in their lifetime?  .040" is not very much, the number sounds large, but it's barely over 1/32". 

37
Engine Mechanical / Electrical / Re: Too Much Carb?
« on: August 08, 2013, 11:15:20 PM »
Quote from: Brad @ SCJB on August 05, 2013, 08:46:06 AM
So when is it too much carburetor? What are the symptoms?

I was running a 1250cfm on my 513ci motor that only spun maybe 6300rpms. Worked great in my opinion.

I've seen guys run dual 1050's on a 496ci that spins 7,000ish rpms.

What would happen if I ran my 1250cfm carb on a stock 460?

Hey Brad

As you know, I have built a few Comp Jet engines, and they leave here set up with single Dominators.  One that I built, the owner got talked into the twin Dominators on a tunnel ram, which was a bit silly as the engine was clearly stronger than the other boats it's first outing at Long Beach, but was greatly lacking in handling, as well as not being able to load the pump on the straights when the water was bumpy.  Another boat that I built engines for stuck with the single 1150 Dominator, and in fact a couple of years ago at Burley pulled a 6 boat length hole shot(there were photos) on the first straight after the driver admittedly got a "late start".  That same driver tried a 1050 and a 1250 when I was not at the races, apparently all ran very similar.

Back to your "stock" engine, if you have the carb and adapter,, you can try it out and see, but I suspect the engine will have better response with a 750?  I actually have a brand new 750 Dominator here if you want "the look" without all the cfm>

38
Engine Mechanical / Electrical / Re: 454 knocking
« on: August 08, 2013, 11:08:05 PM »
Quote from: Bahner87 on July 22, 2013, 01:25:10 PM
Not sure whats going on with my motor. On thursday we launch and made it about 2 miles the oil pressure jumped up to 80psi and started knocking  :thumbdown:. I shut it off right away and got towed to shore and put it back on the trailer. I checked the oil before launching and it was full. I also checked it when i put it on the trailer and it was still reading full. Do you think i spun a bearing? Any input would be greatly appreciated thanks

While you have it apart for rebuild, you may want to check to make sure you have the correct oil pressure sending unit to work with your gauge.  Normally I would expect a big failure to drop the gauge to zero instead of peg to 80.  I just rebuilt an engine for a guy who called saying before he started to oil prime with the drill it was at 80 psi, which is impossible since there would have been zero pressure at that point until the drill was turned.  The needle went to around 40 psi on the drill motor, but while he was talking to me on the phone he tested my logic by slowing the drill motor and watching the gauge CLIMB.  He had switched the engine from one boat to another prior to breaking it and bringing it to me, so the sender did not match the gauge, and also would have been giving false readings.

39
Engine Mechanical / Electrical / Re: 1972 Glastron resurrection - 454 engine oiling issue
« on: August 08, 2013, 10:55:51 PM »
Quote from: 72glastron on August 07, 2013, 01:35:27 PM
I removed all the wiring it was in VERY poor shape.

Doubt a 41yr old electric pressure gauge would have been much use?

Plan is to rewire w/ new gauges. Wanted to see if it would run.
It seems to run well enough to proceed.
Engine fairly low hours/usage, just sat for loooong time.

My thinking is the relief valve in the pump is stuck and the filter can't take the pressure.
But, like I asked don't have any Chevy knowledge.

Did you drain and replace oil,, anything interesting come out in the drained oil?  What filter are you using, it should have a built in bypass, particularly if someone plugged the bypass in the oil filter adapter (I do that on most engines that I build, since it's kind of a wimpy , low pressure deal anyway).   If you don't have one, think about running the oil pump with a drill and oil priming tool, but you will need to know how to get the distributor dropped back in properly, and will need to reset timing once you get it running.  PM if I can answer any specific questions.

40
Engine Mechanical / Electrical / Re: Turning over a motor that has been sitting
« on: August 08, 2013, 10:50:49 PM »
Quote from: Bunger on August 06, 2013, 11:51:22 PM
The motor was stored empty and the pan looked clean when i had the timing cover off. What is the purpose of running it with the filter off? So just cranking the motor over is fine i dont need to pull the distributor and manually pump the oil pump? And as far as im told these carbs havent been ran yet. The guy swapped out 650s for 450s but never got a chance to run them

I don't think turning an engine over without a supply of oil to the bearings is a very good idea, even at slow speed.  The oil travels from the oil pump, directly out to the oil filter, before returning to the block .

I would definitely consider using an oil priming tool, rather than spinning the motor over, you don't want metal to metal contact. 

The carbs might be ok if there has never been any fuel in them, but watch carefully to make sure needle and seats don't stick, either open or closed.

41
Engine Mechanical / Electrical / Re: Motor oil to use (non roller)
« on: June 01, 2013, 08:54:14 AM »
Quote from: rivermikey on May 30, 2013, 05:36:49 PM
Any performance brand oil such as royal purple, Lucas, or vr1 racing oil 20-50 or 15-40 should be good to go. And for added insurance add a bottle of zinc additive for comp, edelbrock or eos from Chevrolet they sell it at most pep boys

The "good" oils that you have mentioned, and including others, including Brad Penn and Torco that I mentioned above already have proper amounts of zinc and phosphates, so there is no real good reason to use additional additives. 

The additives are fine if someone wanted to choose to run a different oil that did not have the high levels of zinc and phosphates already included in it with a flat tappet cam.  There is a point of diminished return in adding more, although it may be ok for the initial camshaft break in. 

I have spoken to techs at several of the major oil companies, including Valvoline, Torco and Brad Penn, and have made the Brad Penn my oil of choice based on personal experience with the "old" Kendall GT 1 oil, which was the same as the current green Brad Penn oil.  One of my other friends builds lots of sprint car engines, and that's all he will use as well, based on what the bearings, and particularly the rings look like after running.

42
WTB / Re: 454 main caps
« on: May 27, 2013, 09:46:05 AM »
Quote from: beerjet on May 18, 2013, 02:53:38 PM
The 402 yes.
396 no.
I think.....

-beerjet-

Omar,, the 402 is just a .030" over 396.  The story is that GM had a bad run of castings and had to bore the blocks .030 from the start.

43
Engine Mechanical / Electrical / Re: Motor oil to use (non roller)
« on: May 26, 2013, 06:52:17 PM »
Quote from: dvdyzfr6 on May 21, 2013, 04:36:01 PM
Anyone use Brad Penn?  The hot rod guys I know swear by it.   Would straight 40 or 50 be best here?  Water gets up to 80 tops. 

http://www.jegs.com/p/Glocker-Oil/Brad-Penn-Penn-Grade-1-High-Performance-Oils/1686175/10002/-1

As Bill says, I believe the Brad Penn is very good stuff, just a little harder to get your hands on.  It's the same as the old Kendall GT 1 Racing oil (the green stuff).  I always ran it in my turbo engine, which I raced and ran for pleasure for 6 years.  When it came time to freshen it up to sell, I took the engine apart and nothing was worn out, the bore stayed the same, rings and bearings were in excellent shape, although once the engine was apart it got all new rings and bearings, etc, just so it was all fresh. 

Valvoline is much easier to find, but if I had my choice I would run either the Brad Penn or Torco, as I have had great experiences with both.  Valvoline turns dark real quickly, but even Valvoline states on their website that the dark color does not affect it's ability to lubricate.

44
Engine Mechanical / Electrical / Re: 496 build.oval or rect heads??
« on: May 26, 2013, 06:37:28 PM »
It's likely you will be more happy with the oval port heads, particularly with the heavier boat, assuming you will be set up to run in the low 5000 RPM range or so.  You aren't planning on racing it, are you?  The intended RPM range and compression will have some effect on what type of heads you want to run.  The material of the heads is not nearly as important to performance.  Aluminum gets used for racing since it's lighter, but it's also more easily repaired if something breaks, and it also transfers heat better if you are trying to run the engine "on the edge" for racing too.

45
Engine Mechanical / Electrical / Re: BBC Intake Manifold Question
« on: April 07, 2013, 08:05:17 PM »
Quote from: 85Kauai on April 04, 2013, 08:01:32 PM
Thinking about swapping out my cast iron intake to aftermarket. Any recommendations on which one I should try? Air Gap was the first recommendation.  454 basicaly stock. Manifold needs to be low or medium rise due to engine cover clearence.
And does anyone have one laying around?

Do you have oval port or rectangular port heads?  You probably should buy one that matches your heads.

Airgap is probably a good choice, but even a GM factory aluminum intake, or a Performer RPM or regular Performer,, or the imported copies would work.  Without other modifications to the engine, it's likely that you won't see much difference, if any.  I have this GM rectangular port marine intake, with bronze lined water jackets for $150


46
Engine Mechanical / Electrical / Re: another fuel problem, please help.
« on: April 07, 2013, 07:48:47 PM »
Quote from: j. mayanard on April 07, 2013, 07:33:23 AM
Thanks for all the replies.  I thought it was sucking air as Well. That's Why I replaced all the fuel line. It doesn't do it all the time either. Seems like it does it only with a load on it. If I turn the key on right now it fills up with no bubbles at all. I have my fuel lines from tanks to ball valves with a tee so I can switch from tank to tank all new, then from ball valve to water fuel separator, water fuel separator to fuel pump, from fuel pump to inline filter and then to regulator.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using SoCalJetBoats mobile app

Have you tried draining the water separator?  Are you sure your "bubbles" are not water in the fuel?

47
Engine Mechanical / Electrical / Re: Need 454 rebuild
« on: March 26, 2013, 11:28:48 PM »
Quote from: TrollerDave on March 24, 2013, 01:16:59 PM
Are you looking for just a stock rebuild?

Barry - Obnoxious001 here on the forum, builds motors and he is in Glendora. Not to far.

I'm sure there are places closer, but you want to make sure they have experience with jet boat motors.
Marine motors should run different bearing clearances than a regular car motor.

Thanks Dave, that's correct, boat engines need to be built more like a race engine since they get run so much harder than an engine in a street vehicle.  Not super magic,, just need everything to be right so it will live.

48
Engines / Engine Parts For Sale / Re: Jet boat Oil Pans
« on: March 18, 2013, 08:11:01 PM »
Quote from: Beaveretriever on March 16, 2013, 11:42:40 AM
do you have any mk lV pans?

Don't think I do right now, sorry.

49
Engines / Engine Parts For Sale / Re: Jet boat Oil Pans
« on: March 16, 2013, 11:30:27 AM »
The Olds pan is sold, the others are still here.  I can't seem to figure a way to edit the original post, the Dooley BBC pan is for a Gen 5/6 block, not MK IV.

50
Engine Mechanical / Electrical / Re: which engine?
« on: March 10, 2013, 11:43:57 PM »
Quote from: el mojado on March 06, 2013, 01:11:14 PM
I have a 20.5 Caribbean mini day cruiser. Its a bare hull project. I need advice on which engine to run. I plan to run a BBC. I would like to find a low buck 454. I'd like to find a used 454 from craigslist. which model 454 would be best in a boat? from what year? which type of vehicle? RV? Truck? I hope my question makes sense.

Buying a used engine is kind of a crapshoot, and putting a used engine out of a car, truck or rv usually means one that would have cast pistons. 

A later model, Gen 6 engine should have a roller cam, but out of a truck or rv will almost definitely have the tiny, "peanut port" heads.  Also a Gen 6 block (unless you found one of the 454 crate engines) will not have provisions for running a mechanical fuel pump, so you would have to run an electric pump. 

I will PM my number to you so that I don't have to type an entire novel, but can give you a little more education that may help you decide which way to go.


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