Boat Fires

« **on:** June 12, 2009, 06:51:33 PM »

Ray's sunk boat due to BIG fire got me wondering whether there is any other kind of on-board fire. I have some thoughts/ideas to share but b4 I do I wanted to hear anyone's experiences with fires.

Here's my categories:

#1 Fire: Have you or someone you know ever had a "small" fire that they were able to put out?

#2 Fire: Have you or someone you know ever had a "big" fire that did major hull/engine damage but did not sink the boat?

#3 Fire: Besides Ray's fire/sinking, have you or someone you know ever had a fire that burned the hull down to the water and sunk the boat?

« **Reply #1 on:** June 12, 2009, 08:51:41 PM »

I guess I'll bite the bullet and display my misfortunes and dumb luck... $:-\$

The most recent one was a boat at Lake Shasta a few years back, this dude was camped next to us at Holiday Harbor, he seemed like a pretty safe guy, I helped him get backed in, he fired off the bilge blower, lowered the drive, even opened up the engine cover to take a look. He hit the starter and Kaboom, blew the engine cover onto the dock, scared the sh!t out of both of us, come to find out a bad battery was the issue, (blew the top clean off of it) sound familiar Skip?...

The one before that was an oil fire, a freind of ours had a boat with one of those Trans Dapt oil filter relocation kits, he was making a pretty hard run up the river and blew an oil filter off and sprayed the headers down with oil, pretty badass flash fire, went out by itself...ruined some shorts for sure...

The one before that was a boat in my shop, pulled it in for service and kept smelling something hot....Something shorted in the dash and never really became flames, but sure smoked up the place....ended up cutting the battery cable with some pruning clippers I had in my hand at the time....Hey, had to keep the place pretty didn't I?...

That's all thus far, fires are scary, hope to never be involved in any more....

GT

« **Reply #2 on:** June 12, 2009, 09:01:36 PM »

i'll tell my story.

in the early 90's i was at lake nacimiento in the narrows. after a long day (back in the narrows) i had a boat full in my 18 ft 5 seat-er. as soon past the 5 mph buoy i floor it which was maybe 55 mph, about 5 minutes later my buddy taps my shoulder and says with a long slur
-- seats -- on -- fire !!!! he had to much to drink

.
with open headers i couldn't understand him so he pours a Coors light to put out the fire as i slow down. well the guy sitting in the rear center was leaning back on the seat which caused the seat to rub against the crank pulley and started a friction fire. it burned all the way through the upholstery, only about the diameter of the pulley.

i know its a minor fire but it was kinda funny and 19 years later my buddy sill says -- seats -- on -- fire -- when ever we see each other.
since i'm cheap, to fix the problem i covered the spot with a big storage pocket.

that's my story
75 fantasy

« **Reply #3 on:** June 12, 2009, 11:55:48 PM »

John, That is FUNNY!

Yeah, back to the original concept here, I support whole heartedly!

Just to toss a couple things in here I picked up both here and on the PB thread on this whole matter, the Moo now carries 4 extinguishers! Don't care what, who or how the fire started, gonna be able to stop it!

Back to your regular scheduled programming.......

Ray

« **Reply #4 on:** June 13, 2009, 05:56:01 AM »

a few years back my brothers boat caught on fire. (no flame arrestor)burnt the wiring off the engine before he got it out. minor fire but when he was putting it back on the trailer a barge cam by and swamped it while loading wench rope broke and the boat slid back in the water i told him to get it back in the water before the barge got there he wouldnt listend!

« **Reply #5 on:** June 14, 2009, 12:53:07 PM »

I had a #1.

Stayed on the throttle too long and had oil spewing out of the breathers.
Oil lands on the headers and POOF. I didn't see it ignite, my buddy just tapped on
my shoulder and pointed backwards. I think he was about ready to jump out of the boat

No real damage, just scared to see the flames. Got the fire out and cruised back to the ramp.

Dry chemical sucks to clean up. But I guess it's better than swimming to shore.

« **Reply #6 on:** June 17, 2009, 04:52:18 PM »

So here's my thinking on fires. Based on the little bit of feedback from you kids, I'd say there are two kinds of fires: The small kind that spook the chit out of you but you put them out with beer or the occasional extinguisher that is still charged.

And the other kind where things go very bad in a hurry and you loose at least the hull and maybe even sink it. These fires probably can't be put out by an extinguisher even if you can find it fast enough. I was looking at Ray's boat and thinking man, what would I have done if that had been me... and would I even have had time to try something radical?

The only choice we have with a bad fire is to maybe scuttle the boat and try to put out the fire that way - but of course then you're sinking your own boat and you don't get the choice of doing it in shallow water. The only goal in doing this is to try and save the motor, pump and other valuable hardware. And not many of us have any foam left to float the hull. I do have foam in the far front of my bow and a little bit in the floor but I just got out the calculator and realized that I probably can't float the whole weight of the boat if I were to try scuttling it. I think I need about 40 ft^3 to keep 2300 lbs from going to the bottom.

I probably won't do anything more than just talk, but I was thinking what if I carried around an emergency life raft or something and kept it under the bow? Then, in the ultimate worst case scenario I MIGHT have time to pull the inflation handle and hope it doesn't puncture on something under the bow. Then I'd slither off into the water and hope I could get to the drain plug and pull it out. And doing all this with a fire going is risky because if there's fuel in the bilge then pretty soon there's going to be fuel around the boat and so I'd be needing to get clear of the hull quickly...

If by some miracle I got all of this done in time, then maybe I would have a dead boat floating with the bow riding out and the fire out and a chance at saving the big $ stuff.

Whaddaya think girls? Plausible? Only in the movies? Better ideas?

« **Reply #7 on:** June 17, 2009, 04:58:48 PM »

Quote from: Stevecat on June 17, 2009, 04:52:18 PM

So here's my thinking on fires. Based on the little bit of feedback from you kids, I'd say there are two kinds of fires: The small kind that spook the chit out of you but you put them out with beer or the occasional extinguisher that is still charged.

And the other kind where things go very bad in a hurry and you loose at least the hull and maybe even sink it. These fires probably can't be put out by an extinguisher even if you can find it fast enough. I was looking at Ray's boat and thinking man, what would I have done if that had been me... and would I even have had time to try something radical?

The only choice we have with a bad fire is to maybe scuttle the boat and try to put out the fire that way - but of course then you're sinking your own boat and you don't get the choice of doing it in shallow water. The only goal in doing this is to try and save the motor, pump and other valuable hardware. And not many of us have any foam left to float the hull. I do have foam in the far front of my bow and a little bit in the floor but I just got out the calculator and realized that I probably can't float the whole weight of the boat if I were to try scuttling it. I think I need about 40 ft^3 to keep 2300 lbs from going to the bottom.

I probably won't do anything more than just talk, but I was thinking what if I carried around an emergency life raft or something and kept it under the bow? Then, in the ultimate worst case scenario I MIGHT have time to pull the inflation handle and hope it doesn't puncture on something under the bow. Then I'd slither off into the water and hope I could get to the drain plug and pull it out. And doing all this with a fire going is risky because if there's fuel in the bilge then pretty soon there's going to be fuel around the boat and so I'd be needing to get clear of the hull quickly...

If by some miracle I got all of this done in time, then maybe I would have a dead boat floating with the bow riding out and the fire out and a chance at saving the big $ stuff.

Whaddaya think girls? Plausible? Only in the movies? Better ideas?

Fenwal 2000 auto extingushers

Very expensive, but work badass, Fenwal replaced Halon about 7 years ago.

What about having a marine wash down pump installed in the boat, you could just hit a switch and pump water all over the fire...Won't work on electrical fires...Of course not much does

I say screw the raft and just jump out and push as much water as you can with your arms into the fire...May not work, but you'll be out of harms way...

Boat fires are hotter than you can even imagine.

GT

« **Reply #8 on:** June 17, 2009, 10:46:24 PM »

Still learning about boats but would it work to set up another water line that comes off the pump. a valve and some nozzles. We are cruising around on some big squirt guns. Very sorry to hear about the fire Ray.

« **Reply #9 on:** June 18, 2009, 01:20:27 AM »

Quote from: onetool1 on June 17, 2009, 10:46:24 PM

Still learning about boats but would it work to set up another water line that comes off the pump. a valve and some nozzles. We are cruising around on some big squirt guns. Very sorry to hear about the fire Ray.

Might work as long as long as the engine is running. Not so good when something comes out of the engine, starting an oil fire.

« **Reply #10 on:** June 18, 2009, 03:16:59 AM »

The thought has crossed my mind to install one of those onboard auto extinguisher systems like nascar uses.

Ray

« **Reply #11 on:** June 18, 2009, 08:27:22 AM »

The only problem with using water to put out a gas fire (assuming that is what it is) is that the gas floats giving it more surface area to burn. I think GT hit it on the head with his comment.

Quote from: GT Jets on June 17, 2009, 04:58:48 PM

Fenwal 2000 auto extingushers Very expensive, but work badass, Fenwal replaced Halon about 7 years ago.

What about having a marine wash down pump installed in the boat, you could just hit a switch and pump water all over the fire...Won't work on electrical fires...Of course not much does

Boat fires are hotter than you can even imagine.

GT

« **Reply #12 on:** June 18, 2009, 09:42:30 AM »

Quote

Boat fires are hotter than you can even imagine.

GT

I can attest, only seen, or ever wanna see, one, but could feel the heat from well over 100 feet away or more.

Ray

« **Reply #13 on:** June 18, 2009, 09:50:52 AM »

Quote from: GT Jets

Boat fires are hotter than you can even imagine.

Maybe a dumb question but why hotter? I am guessing because the fiberglass burns so hot and intense? Not trying to hi-jack...just curious.

« **Reply #14 on:** June 18, 2009, 12:14:59 PM »

Quote from: IRRebel on June 18, 2009, 09:42:30 AM

I can attest, only seen, or ever wanna see, one, but could feel the heat from well over 100 feet away or more.

Ray

Hey Ray, if you don't mind my questions - assuming you are speaking with your brother now, about how long of time between the start of the fire and the boat starting to sink? Thanks, Steve

« **Reply #15 on:** June 18, 2009, 12:21:24 PM »

Skip and I were tuning my carb and the floats were sticking so we were getting a lot of fuel dumping into it. instead of trying to suck it out we just dumped it down the intake. after a few dumps we thought we had it so we turned the key only to find it was hydrolocked. so we pulled the spark plugs out and watched as the fuel sprayed out of the motor. One thing we forgot to do was disconect the coil. Well a sparkplug wire found a ground and a ball of fire went shooting into the air. The boat stayed on fire for about 30 seconds before skip ripped the fire extenguisher off the wall and douched it out. LOL only a few small blisters inside the motor area and some burnt wires. Could have been a lot worse if we had not had a fire extinguisher close by.

« **Reply #16 on:** June 18, 2009, 12:23:23 PM »

Quote from: alamojimmy on June 18, 2009, 09:50:52 AM

Maybe a dumb question but why hotter? I am guessing because the fiberglass burns so hot and intense? Not trying to hi-jack...just curious.

I believe that GT was trying to explain that you need to get the hell out of the boat once a large fire is going. I did some research and have come up with some numbers regarding a turbulent diffusion fire (most unwanted fires that are not premixed or controlled by a combustion system).

Of course these are just estimates and it greatly depends on the fire and what is burning, but this should give you an idea of what kind of temperatures you would be coming into contact with a fire like Ray's:
Max Range Average Temp
Open flames (boat burning etc) 2012-2192 F 1652F
Warehouse or home 2192F 1652-1832F

As you can see boats don't necessarily burn hotter they are just HOT in general!!! Skin starts burning at 130F.

Steve

« **Reply #17 on:** June 18, 2009, 12:43:41 PM »

Where is sleepercp on this one, he can show you how to snuff em out with a bottle of nos

I've never had a boat fire(knock on wood), but I did have to use the boat extenguisher(sp?) once. I was welding floorboards in my old chevelle wagon, and in a flash the back seat went up in flames. Ran across to the boat, grabbed the extenguisher, back to the car and......when a bunch of white powder crap came out of it...I was like omg/fock this thing is defective.lol I guess I was expecting something liquid/wet. It was definatly a pucker moment.

« **Reply #18 on:** June 18, 2009, 01:07:41 PM »

Quote from: SLCKREG on June 18, 2009, 12:43:41 PM

Ran across to the boat, grabbed the extenguisher, back to the car and......when a bunch of white powder crap came out of it...I was like omg/fock this thing is defective.lol I guess I was expecting something liquid/wet. It was definatly a pucker moment.

The first time you release that stuff it is suprising if you don't know it is dry chem. Never really had a "need" for a fire extinguisher until my dirt bike caught on fire after cracking the gas tank. Ran into the garage and hauled out an old extinguisher only to find that it had lost its charge!

I definatly puckered!

« **Reply #19 on:** June 18, 2009, 02:48:15 PM »

Quote from: Stevecat on June 18, 2009, 12:14:59 PM

Hey Ray, if you don't mind my questions - assuming you are speaking with your brother now, about how long of time between the start of the fire and the boat starting to sink? Thanks, Steve

I was never angry with my brother, lol. Wasn't his fault, just a situation that coulda happened to anyone, even Jeremy and Terry in Vegas when they had it.(Thank god it didn't).

I Joke with him relentlessly about it, lol! (Like, "Did you at least get my keys?", lol). The guys who lost my truck keys at the dock did it at the same lake, I had made copies and put truck keys on all the boat key rings JIC, lol, so now that lake has claimed 2 of my truck keys!)

It burned for a good 2 1/2 or 3 hours before it sank. There was no starting to sink, it just went from burning to sank in one step, lol. (I wasn't there when it all started, and came in late on it, prolly 45 minutes or an hour after it all started )Even the deputy sherrif said that was unusual, usually an hour or so. Guess those old Biesemeyer's were laid up pretty good! (I'll find another one, Nordie knows where one is, but it's a V-drive, already workin on one of those, want a jet)

I beleive the heat was a combination of the fiberglass resin and oil/gasoline, plus the foam, wood, vinyl seat coverings, plastic, rubber, wire insulation, one big trash fire if you ask me. But yeah, the spot where she went down steamed like a mofo when she went under! I'll bring the dvd to Big river with my laptop. Guy used a funky file style that can't be read by dvd players.

Ray

« **Reply #20 on:** June 18, 2009, 06:12:27 PM »

I guess when it comes down to it, a boat is just a collection of various petrochemicals. 2,000 lbs of fossil fuel waiting to be converted back into tar and carbon.

An hour or maybe more is plenty of time to screw around and try some kind of hero whupass.

Plan A - use all the fire extinguishers
Plan B - use the bailing bucket (guess I'd better move it to the bow instead of in the back) but only after getting out of the flaming boat and into somebody elses.
Plan C - tow it to shore and scuttle it?
Plan D - if nobody has the balls to tow a boat on fire, then wish I had the magic emergency raft with 40+ ft^3 of air and try scuttling in deep water.

« **Reply #21 on:** June 18, 2009, 11:34:49 PM »

When I saw it, I wanted to go hook onto it and tow it at least near shore. Shoulda been easy to swim to it from 20 feet and hook onto the bow eye, and tow it with the Moo, but they wouldn't let me. Trust me, I pleaded, lol. But I get their point, coulda very easily started a wildfire on shore then too.

Once you see the picture and see all that black smoke, yeah, it was a caustic burning mess. From when the "explosion "happened to the eruption of flames was a good 20 or 30 minutes from what I'm told by my baby brother.

Ray

Here's the link again in case anyone missed it, lol.

« **Reply #22 on:** June 23, 2009, 06:08:23 PM »

Crap, that picture makes me sick to my stomach. Sorry to see this.

I recently had a fire due to one of my regulators sticking and dumping a massive amount of fuel down the aft carb out it pulled in my header. Crap started burning and like a dumb ass I figured I'd blow it out. Massive flames out the headers and enough heat to melt the carpet. Scared the shit out of me and my wife not to mention the fact that I was afraid I was gonna burn down the shop in the process........

« **Reply #23 on:** June 23, 2009, 08:12:23 PM »

Quote

Crap, that picture makes me sick to my stomach. Sorry to see this.

Me too John! But it could have been MUCH worse had anyone been injured or killed. Much like your shop fire easily could have.

I shared all the info I have on this ordeal because I think we all need to ba aware, and obviously, some of us are taking it to heart. In which case I succeeded.

Also wanted to because several members here have been on this boat, lol. (I Think Omar was a little reluctant to climb aboard the Moo last Saturday, but he did it!)

Wanted to post the Videos that were sent to me of it, but they're a funky XP file style that I can't upload to Photobucket then link it here.

Ray

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