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GT Jets

  • Karma: +192/-0
Re: Give me The Basics
« Reply #25 on: March 31, 2013, 08:25:15 PM »
I will when i can, I do not have a diverter. I have seen the hydraulic set ups but are there manual ones or do you have to do hydraulic?

Personal preference.

Hydraulic allows you to keep both hands on the wheel...
  • Boat #1: 1992 Carrera 20.5 Elite (I/O bitches)
  • Boat #2: 19' Bubble deck Jet BBC Berkeley
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If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

Time to man up and yank it John!  :banghead:
Ray

jet fever

  • Karma: +7/-2
Re: Give me The Basics
« Reply #26 on: March 31, 2013, 08:57:35 PM »
Hows that pump?  Hows the wear ring how long since a rebuild???

As far as a 460 its like most motors even a stock block will love te right top end setup.

U need to know where u want your motor to make power are just trying to go fast or u have a ski boat and u want it faster?

A good cam company will tell u which cam to pick based on how u wanna drive it and yes u can go too big...

Not all hulls are fast or safe fast

Maybe u stated do u have vacuum secondaries

As far as diverter (manual is right now adjustment)

Just my two cents
  • Boat #1: 76 Hallett Bubble Deck
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IRRebel

  • Karma: +16/-0
Re: Give me The Basics
« Reply #27 on: March 31, 2013, 09:48:58 PM »
Actually, you don't have the worst flowing heads. The D3's are usually fine and can be ported to near ridiculous numbers if you want to do that. The C8/C9 D0VE heads do have larger intake ports and no thermactor humps in the exhaust ports (Some D3's don't have those either), but they also have smaller combustion chamber volume which will bump up compression ratio without changing pistons, another plus, unless you are changing pistons anyway.

Honestly, I've seen some pretty powerful 460's running not so modified D3 heads, and I agree you're gonna get more bang for the buck doing what Ralph and GT said. First thing is to get the RPMS up to the 5000-5200 range to get the pump operating in it's optimal range (Sounds to me like the pump is fine, loading the engine up quite effectively) and that dinky carb is likely the biggest culprit that is mostly killing you. Go with an 800 at least or an 850 better yet. Hell a 750 would help a lot, but that's really too small!

Your intake is really the best dual plane available for the 460, so you're good there. The RV cam isn't so bad, but it's designed to throw the torque curve into the lower ranges rather than higher which would be optimal for a Jet Boat. Still probably better off than the standard truck grind.

Gotta be kinda careful just throwing cams at these things. I've seen and heard great results with the Comp 286, 292 and 305's, but the rest of the valvetrain has to be up to snuff, and geometry carefully checked when doing it. By that I mean screw in rocker studs (If the heads are not already equipped), guide plates, GOOD chromemoly pushrods, valvesprings and retainers rated for the particular cam/lifter set up you plan to run, etc. Valve spring seats may need to be machined to accommodate whatever valve springs are required as well.

Personally, we're in the season now! I'd leave it mostly alone, save for the carb, Place Diverter and ignition recommendations thus far for the time being. Be plenty of time over the winter to tear into the engine for more HP/speed if need be for next year. You've a better idea what is really going on by then also. Run it and have fun!

The D9 blocks, Ralph is correct. Really just a change from internal balance to eternal allowing smaller throw weights on the crankshaft. This also means the bores go further down into the block, which I don't know that there's a plus or minus either way. Just don't mix up the crankshafts with older cranks. I've not heard of any cylinder wall thickness differences or anything, just an issue with certain stroker setups not working with the '79 and later blocks.  :thumbup:

Ray   
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"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways totally worn out shouting 'Holy Shit what a ride!"---Crewcheif22 AKA Keith

nolongergreen

  • Karma: +3/-0
Re: Give me The Basics
« Reply #28 on: April 06, 2013, 06:37:38 PM »
Ok carb is on the way. Ebay item # 171016406562.

Holley 850 dp no choke or horns with 50cc pumps front and rear

We"ll see what shes got when it gets here....
« Last Edit: April 06, 2013, 06:40:25 PM by nolongergreen »
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nolongergreen

  • Karma: +3/-0
Re: Give me The Basics
« Reply #29 on: April 08, 2013, 09:19:17 PM »
What size jets do you guys suggest running with this carb?
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GT Jets

  • Karma: +192/-0
Re: Give me The Basics
« Reply #30 on: April 08, 2013, 11:33:14 PM »
What size jets do you guys suggest running with this carb?


Run it with the factory size jets and be prepared to go up one step from stock., also might consider checking into the power valve and dropping that down a bit too.

I will try to look up what the factory jets were...

Buy some Pam Cooking spray for the gaskets so you can get it back apart without having to buy more friggen gaskets.

GT
  • Boat #1: 1992 Carrera 20.5 Elite (I/O bitches)
  • Boat #2: 19' Bubble deck Jet BBC Berkeley
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If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

Time to man up and yank it John!  :banghead:
Ray

nolongergreen

  • Karma: +3/-0
Re: Give me The Basics
« Reply #31 on: April 10, 2013, 09:39:34 PM »
It looks as if the 80s are what came in it stock. I will try it saturday and see what happens. :-\
« Last Edit: April 10, 2013, 09:41:38 PM by nolongergreen »
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nolongergreen

  • Karma: +3/-0
Re: Give me The Basics
« Reply #32 on: April 13, 2013, 05:33:03 PM »
ok, Took it out today and it ran exactly as it did with the 650 double pump. :banghead:
With that being said, I think its time for a timing light.
Any other suggestions? Sorry im really not a mechanic and its showing but I am learning as I go. So far nothings blown up. :o
I do however know alot more about a 850 dp  as for when i put it on it would not run and gas leaked everywhere. I took it apart and found the accelerator pump diaphram was busted and the carb just needed cleaned up a bit. I got lucky and had a 750 spreadbore carb here that had the 50cc diaphram in it so I used it since no-one around here stocked one.
Its just puzzling to me that the boat ran exactly as it did with the 650 on it, Im assuming the timing will be the next thing to zero in on?
4200 rpms at 53 mph gps is the best its doing.

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nolongergreen

  • Karma: +3/-0
Re: Give me The Basics
« Reply #33 on: April 21, 2013, 07:34:28 PM »
I took the boat back out and adjusted the timing back and forth with the timing light but in the end it ran better where it was before we started adjusting.
I believe at this point its gonna be the camshaft. That is definantly something that needs to be changed anyway and I will probably go ahead with a set off aluminum heads at the same time anyway.
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nolongergreen

  • Karma: +3/-0
Re: Give me The Basics
« Reply #34 on: May 11, 2013, 08:42:18 PM »
Just landed a place diverter (hydraulic setup) rudder and all. Well see what that does.
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GlassCutter

  • Karma: +31/-0
Re: Give me The Basics
« Reply #35 on: May 11, 2013, 09:52:01 PM »
Isn't 53 mph at only 4300 rpm pretty legit?  You need to make a bunch more rpm.  It ain't an Olds.
  • Boat #1: 1973  Wriedt Montara 23
  • Boat #2: 1978 Spectra 20 460/Berkley
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Also, I will kiss bare male ass in the middle of the Vegas Strip  . . .  I will post pics if I need to.  --  IRRebel 2013

"Go ahead Rivertard does it.  Take a video though."

"If you did it in a dodge it would have shifted perfectly ran a thousand miles per hour and got optimum fuel mileage!"  Nordie  2012

nolongergreen

  • Karma: +3/-0
Re: Give me The Basics
« Reply #36 on: May 18, 2013, 11:24:47 AM »
Well I just picked up a diverter (hydraulic setup) and contacted berkley and they suggested a cam for the setup I have and its a 270h cam , lifters, and springs.
So im going to install these items and call it a day.
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nolongergreen

  • Karma: +3/-0
Re: Give me The Basics
« Reply #37 on: June 27, 2013, 09:08:00 PM »
Well, here I am again for an update.
I have the diverter installed and the cam and lifters.
I have not run it in the lake yet but we made a pretty big discovery in finding a few new problems once it was pulled apart. It seem all the valve seals were worn and leaking and the valve seats needed to be machined for the larger springs which being it was going to a machine shop we came to the realization that the heads were in need of rebuilding.
 One of the main problems were the valve springs themselves, you could compress them with ease so they held no pressure worth speaking of.

I own my own buisness and I have to be on call this weekend so It will actually be during the holiday weekend before I can test it but It sure sounds alot better and a whole lot more responsive.

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crewchief22

  • Karma: +66/-0
Re: Give me The Basics
« Reply #38 on: June 27, 2013, 10:33:50 PM »
Weak valve springs are probably a bigger problem than most people realize.  Because of the rpm's we spin, and the extended run times at higher rpm's, the valve springs should be checked or replaced more often than most of us are doing so.
  • Boat #1: '77 Hondo Pantera GT Jet
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"Racing is life!  Anything that happens before or after, is just waiting"    Steve McQueen

The problem with America is stupidity. I'm not saying there should be a capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?

farmergord

  • Karma: +6/-0
Re: Give me The Basics
« Reply #39 on: June 27, 2013, 11:21:13 PM »
comp cams 34-244-4 special grind for ford460

http://www.jegs.com/i/Comp-Cams/249/34-244-4/10002/-1
  • Boat #1: 1976 Pioneer 19foot
  • Boat #2: 2020 Kingfisher 2025
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Im not a nag Im a motivational speaker

rivermikey

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Give me The Basics
« Reply #40 on: June 28, 2013, 02:58:23 PM »
My dad runs a 460 ford in his 76 hornet yeah it's pretty quick but I blew the engine about 5 years ago and learned about fords the hard way....

1. You spin a 460 ford past 5500 rpm it will blow after about 15 minutes
2. If you run a hydraulic flat tappet cam with more than .540 lift in a ford with non adjustable valve train by the end of the season it will go flat
3. If want to keep things on a budget go for reliability. Try to go fast for cheap your engine will be toast..
4. Any one that says they spin their engine past 7200 rpm regularly obviously drives an old rotary Mazda.....not a jet boat....

Run a cam with under 510 lift, duration under 280,  on a 110 to108 LSA, good intake electronic ignition,and a good 750-850 carb.  short hard burst are great don't try running wot for 5 miles up river or else you will be floating back
« Last Edit: June 28, 2013, 03:05:02 PM by rivermikey »
  • Boat #1: 1992 Hardin Marine
  • Boat #2: 2005 shockwave skier
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SoCalPSD

  • Karma: +4/-0
Re: Give me The Basics
« Reply #41 on: June 28, 2013, 03:38:15 PM »
Hey rivermikey you have a pic of your old mans hornet
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In my best "grandad" voice with a cigarette hanging out of my mouth....  "if a day goes by and you learn nothing, I hope like hell you got a lot of sleep".... :thumbup:

rivermikey

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Give me The Basics
« Reply #42 on: June 28, 2013, 03:40:42 PM »
Yeah will get a pic he bought it new in 1976 and still has it and still looks good
  • Boat #1: 1992 Hardin Marine
  • Boat #2: 2005 shockwave skier
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rivermikey

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Give me The Basics
« Reply #43 on: June 28, 2013, 04:01:21 PM »
some pics of my dads hornet
« Last Edit: June 28, 2013, 04:13:16 PM by rivermikey »
  • Boat #1: 1992 Hardin Marine
  • Boat #2: 2005 shockwave skier
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Trukinbear

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Give me The Basics
« Reply #44 on: June 28, 2013, 08:01:17 PM »
Comp cams has a nice simulator program where you can select the cam, put in your engine specifics, and do a mock dyno run.

Pretty neat but you have to know a lot about what you have to get the right results, but it does make cam recommendations.

http://www.camquest.com/
  • Boat #1: 1973 18' Cougar
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'Keget' - 1973  18' Cougar
L82 350,  Berkeley 12JC - A
Rippin up and down the Klamath River from the mouth to mile 36 - if you see us, wave!

nolongergreen

  • Karma: +3/-0
Re: Give me The Basics
« Reply #45 on: September 21, 2013, 05:49:51 PM »
Alright, i'm in need of help again.
I have located and am currently having a set of C8VE-E built but while I have it pulled down this far I though why not go with a bigger cam since now im gonna have the screw in studs with these heads.
Right now i'm running a comp cam 270 ( 270 intake 286 EXH duration @ .050 : 226 236 with a lobe sep: 112.0 valve lift .554 .557 ) With the matched set of springs from comp cams.
Ive had several people suggest a 305h cam or the big mutha thumper cam.
Any suggestions on this?
I am running the double valve spring setup that comp cams suggested but I can find part #s for them. Can I reuse these on one of these cams?
I'm running a 460 with bassett headers, a ported set of c8ve-e heads ,flat top pistons, a wiend stealth intake, and a 850 double pumper with 50cc.

« Last Edit: September 21, 2013, 05:53:13 PM by nolongergreen »
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nolongergreen

  • Karma: +3/-0
Re: Give me The Basics
« Reply #46 on: September 21, 2013, 06:29:53 PM »

Sorry it took so long to get a pic up but here it is...


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BoatDocDANE

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Give me The Basics
« Reply #47 on: September 22, 2013, 03:08:16 AM »

5800 rpm will sprinkle that Ford all over the bilge....

There is little to no reason to ever turn a pump faster than 5,200.

That being said, more information is needed about the current set up.

Stay away from fancy ignition systems for now, you could pill of the HEI and never see a single rpm gain.

Whoever said you cab easily over carb. a jet, just don't know jets.

Let me give you a scenario of what it's going on in a jet, take a heavy car and drive wot up the steepest hill you can find. That is how a jet absorbs hp.

GT
you may feel you can not over carb a jet but you can over carb a "motor" which is far to over common..


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BoatDocDANE

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Give me The Basics
« Reply #48 on: September 22, 2013, 03:12:31 AM »
Not to mention unless you have a B" impeller there's no chance you will be spinning over 5,000 rpm...


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berkbryan

  • Karma: +3/-0
Re: Give me The Basics
« Reply #49 on: September 22, 2013, 07:42:38 PM »
Alright, i'm in need of help again.
I have located and am currently having a set of C8VE-E built but while I have it pulled down this far I though why not go with a bigger cam since now im gonna have the screw in studs with these heads.
Right now i'm running a comp cam 270 ( 270 intake 286 EXH duration @ .050 : 226 236 with a lobe sep: 112.0 valve lift .554 .557 ) With the matched set of springs from comp cams.
Ive had several people suggest a 305h cam or the big mutha thumper cam.
Any suggestions on this?
I am running the double valve spring setup that comp cams suggested but I can find part #s for them. Can I reuse these on one of these cams?
I'm running a 460 with bassett headers, a ported set of c8ve-e heads ,flat top pistons, a wiend stealth intake, and a 850 double pumper with 50cc.
the 305 h is a great cam its a 285 lift

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