Home plumbing help

« **on:** November 22, 2010, 08:11:16 PM »

Theres no home improvement section so, I'm going to stick this here. I need some plumbing help

I did tile floors in my bathroom and cant figure out how to put the toilet back, or how it was mounted to start with. When I took it out, I undid the 2 nuts on the studs on the sides and lifted. It came up but the studs where still attached to the toilet. There is a funnel looking piece in the floor (black plastic ?), and another funnel looking piece (black plastic ?) that was still attached to the toilet that has the ring with the studs on it. I got the smaller funnel piece and the ring with the studs off the toilet (and I broke the toilet

). Now I'm looking at it all and cant see any way that the 2 funnel pieces are supposed to stay stuck together. The one that was on the toilet fits inside the one thats in the floor (perfect fit), but I know there should be some way to make it all stay in the floor so when I bolt the new toilet back down it doesnt just pull the small funnel and ring out of the floor like it did when I took it out.

Should those 2 funnel pieces be glued together, some kind of ABS/PVC glue ?? Or is there something missing ??

« **Reply #1 on:** November 22, 2010, 08:20:46 PM »

The water closet (the ring which retains the flange with the two bolts) should be hard bolted to the sub floor, I think (you didn't enclose any pictures

) the second (upper) funnel piece is a part of the old beeswax seal, it gets discarded and a new one installed. It sounds like someone at some point mucked up the original flange.

It is difficult to say exactly what you need, but it sounds like you need a new closet, I hope you don't have a slab....

On a side note...The American Standard Champion 4 is one badass MOFO of a shitter....

GT

« **Reply #2 on:** November 22, 2010, 08:36:41 PM »

GT's right. But if I read it correctly it does not sound like the flange from the floor came loose, only the wax adapter. A couple tips I can give you are; when you buy a new wax ring buy the one that comes with new bolts. Secondly, when you put the new bolts on, run a nut down them to hold them in place on the flange. Makes it a lot easier to get the toilet on.

« **Reply #3 on:** November 22, 2010, 08:46:53 PM »

Quote from: GT Jets on November 22, 2010, 08:20:46 PM

The water closet (the ring which retains the flange with the two bolts) should be hard bolted to the sub floor, I think (you didn't enclose any pictures ) the second (upper) funnel piece is a part of the old beeswax seal, it gets discarded and a new one installed. It sounds like someone at some point mucked up the original flange.

It is difficult to say exactly what you need, but it sounds like you need a new closet, I hope you don't have a slab....

On a side note...The American Standard Champion 4 is one badass MOFO of a shitter....

GT

X2 Jeff. Since you put tile in, get a thicker wax seal for the new toilet or a closet flange extender, some new bolts. and some toilet shims to keep the thing from rocking around on the new but probably not perfectly level floor.

As another side note on the toilet, I like the Kohler Cimarron myself. Nothing wrong with the Champion, great stool, I just think the Cimarron is a better buy. Have 2 one pieces (discontinued Rialto's) here to install when I ever get around to tiling my bathrooms, and it is compatible with any cheapo flush valve IF the mandated 1.6 GPF proves inadequate to down anything with one touch of the lever.

Ray

« **Reply #4 on:** November 22, 2010, 09:55:18 PM »

OK guys, I got the battery charged for the camera.

The piece in the lower left is what came off with the toilet, upper left is a wax ring that was between the lower left piece and the toilet, lower right was a wax ring between the lower left piece and the piece thats in the floor. Nothing holding the flange piece to the floor except gravity and the weight of the toilet.

The flange piece (was attached to toilet). 3" inside dia, 3 1/2" outside dia.

The piece thats in the slab/floor. 4" inside dia.

What now ?? I know this is all wrong, but I'm NOT going to break up the slab. Any special way to fix this ??

« **Reply #5 on:** November 22, 2010, 10:01:01 PM »

That ring that came off with the toilet is a repair type deal that is used when the old ring rusts off of the iron pipe. It's probably got some o-rings that seal against the inside of the iron pipe. If it's in decent shape, stick it back i'n
And screw it down to the subfloor with 6 wood screws, then put your wax seal, and bolt down the toilet. Ideally, you would have cut off the bad piece of pipe and replaced that section along with a new close flange when you had the floor up.

« **Reply #6 on:** November 22, 2010, 10:04:43 PM »

Well proppy, I can tell you how I would fix it, but it wont be "correct"..

Here goes...The only part out of all that that you need is the flanged part., But it looks like you have iron drain pipes and an ABS closet flange.

What you need is a closet flange for iron pipe (if your chit is iron and not ABS)...

Try one of these badboys, just did this on a 60 year old house a while back, worked pretty slick. http://www.oatey.com/Channel/Shared/ProductGroupDetail/363/Twist_N_Set__Cast_Iron_Replacement_Closet_Flange.html

If that doesn't work, invite Skip over for a couple

and say " hey, by the way"

GT

« **Reply #7 on:** November 22, 2010, 10:07:15 PM »

jeff the hub in the floor is what cast iron it looks to be a bell useally that is a lead joint. you can get a push type rubber then the closet flange will fit in side of that. need to get some concrete around that hub so you can anchor the flange to the floor.like hydro crete or something of that nature let me know i will look for the part you need

rusty

« **Reply #8 on:** November 22, 2010, 10:09:54 PM »

Quote from: GreatLakes Jet on November 22, 2010, 10:07:15 PM

jeff the hub in the floor is what cast iron it looks to be a bell useally that is a lead joint. you can get a push type rubber then the closet flange will fit in side of that. need to get some concrete around that hub so you can anchor the flange to the floor.like hydro crete or something of that nature let me know i will look for the part you need

rusty

Rusty, this is a boating web site, he needs to use "Sea Going Poxy Putty"....

GT

« **Reply #9 on:** November 22, 2010, 10:14:42 PM »

GT sorry my bad heady duty sea going poxy putty

rusty

« **Reply #10 on:** November 22, 2010, 10:20:39 PM »

Quote from: GreatLakes Jet on November 22, 2010, 10:14:42 PM

GT sorry my bad heady duty sea going poxy putty

rusty

Proppy,

In all seriousness, get an old towel or a Nerf ball or something in the hole until you are ready to reinstall the throne...Methane gas can be very dangerous and you no longer have a trap on the sewer pipe preventing gas from entering your house. Not only that but smells like Fat Bastards farts...

GT

« **Reply #11 on:** November 22, 2010, 10:24:54 PM »

GT looked at the web you posted for jeff to look at. does any of them fit a bell don't ever remember seeing one to fit the hub (bell)

« **Reply #12 on:** November 22, 2010, 10:28:53 PM »

Piece in the floor is definitely plastic (I scraped it with a screwdriver to be sure). Looks like it had a flange on it at some point and it broke off, there still a bit of a groove around the outside in places.

Thanks for the call Rusty

Quote from: GT Jets on November 22, 2010, 10:09:54 PM

Rusty, this is a boating web site, he needs to use "Sea Going Poxy Putty"....

GT

Dont you tempt me GT, I was already thinking about something like that, "Sea Going Poxy Putty" fixes everything !!

So anyway, there should be some kind of slip in / glue in repair piece for this broken plastic flange (the one in the floor), kinda like what GT posted but for plastic. Then drop some new cement around it to keep it from breaking again and I'll be good ?

I'll plug up the hole GT, just had it open for the pics.

« **Reply #13 on:** November 22, 2010, 10:43:00 PM »

Quote from: propless on November 22, 2010, 10:28:53 PM

Piece in the floor is definitely plastic (I scraped it with a screwdriver to be sure). Looks like it had a flange on it at some point and it broke off, there still a bit of a groove around the outside in places.

Thanks for the call Rusty

Dont you tempt me GT, I was already thinking about something like that, "Sea Going Poxy Putty" fixes everything !!

So anyway, there should be some kind of slip in / glue in repair piece for this broken plastic flange (the one in the floor), kinda like what GT posted but for plastic. Then drop some new cement around it to keep it from breaking again and I'll be good ?

I'll plug up the hole GT, just had it open for the pics.

Fixall and forget it..

Quote from: GreatLakes Jet on November 22, 2010, 10:24:54 PM

GT looked at the web you posted for jeff to look at. does any of them fit a bell don't ever remember seeing one to fit the hub (bell)

They make the same Oatey repair flange for plastic......

I would get the one made for plastic, I believe they make them in PVC and ABS, I used the PVC one (white vs. black) for a broken iron flange in my buds rental house (the renters took the toilets with them when they moved out WTF is wrong with people?) and pour some Fixall around the flange on put some large plastic molly inserts where the holes are in the new flange in the wet Fixall..

Permanent bullet proof fix...

... http://www.acehardwareoutlet.com/productDetails.aspx?SKU=19572 Sorry Ray... $:-\$

« **Reply #14 on:** November 22, 2010, 11:00:32 PM »

I forwarded the pics to my current Master Plumber. Great guy, he did my water heater and a few otherthings for me and a genius with this stuff. That is UGLY Jeff!

Personally, I would rather see some serious cleaning of the concrete area and a good concrete patch material and then a hinged closet flange. We'll see what Tim comes up with. I work with him in the morning. If he's got an absolute answer I'll let him post under me from work or call your cell. Skip might pop in with another answer as well. Nobody knows shitters like Skip........

Ray

« **Reply #15 on:** November 22, 2010, 11:03:03 PM »

here's another site

Multi-Tite Pipe Gasket
Pipe gasket for service weight cast iron pipe.
fernco .com under strom drains

rusty

« **Reply #16 on:** November 22, 2010, 11:07:45 PM »

Thanks everybody for the help !!! Thats why I love this place, someone here always has experience to help even if its not boat related. Sometimes the hardest part of a repair is figuring out WTF someone did to it before and why.

BTW, I think they did the same thing in the other bathroom, that toilet is loose too.

« **Reply #17 on:** November 22, 2010, 11:16:26 PM »

Quote from: propless on November 22, 2010, 11:07:45 PM

Thanks everybody for the help !!! Thats why I love this place, someone here always has experience to help even if its not boat related. Sometimes the hardest part of a repair is figuring out WTF someone did to it before and why.

BTW, I think they did the same thing in the other bathroom, that toilet is loose too.

Well, looks to me, and Glenn will probably concurr, this aint the first time there's been a problem with toilets on your foundation.

Lets fix it right this time is all I'm sayin' .

Ray

« **Reply #18 on:** November 22, 2010, 11:34:07 PM »

Your right Ray, I agree 100%. I want to do it right. Dont want to have to do it again next year. Cant believe I was standing on that thing when I was painting the ceiling and it didnt fall over and kill me.

Its all plugged up and I'll wait to see what your guy has to say tomorrow.

« **Reply #19 on:** November 23, 2010, 08:23:04 PM »

Thanks to Ray I have it handled. Got a call today, Ray and his plumbing expert (laughing at the pics) got me all hooked up with the right parts. Went down to the local Home Depot and picked up what they told me to get and it looks like its going to work perfect. They had a replacement metal flange thingy that comes it 2 pieces and bolts together once you get it in place around the old plastic part. I put it on the piece thats already in the floor and it slipped right into that little groove it has (fits perfect). Just need to fill in the missing cement so I can mount it down and everything will be good to go.

Thanks again Ray

Really makes me wonder why they didnt do this in the first place.

The right part to fix it was only like 9 bucks, they spent more than that on all that crap to do it wrong.

propless

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