SoCal Jet Boats
Discussion => The No Wake Zone => Topic started by: GeneralLee on May 10, 2014, 08:13:06 PM
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Hey fellas been on here for a while and I've tried searching for a topic like this on here but nothing came up so here it goes...
So far all I've owned was a jet boat but believe it or not I'm starting to sway towards a v drive more and more. I don't do lakes all I do is big river in parker. Most people so far told me to stay away from v drives if I'm going to be using it on the river only. Not sure why nobody can give me a good enough explanation.
What are your guys thoughts on a flatty v drive at the river. I don't care about not having rear seats cause it's just the wife and I. All I want to do is put to a beach and make do some hot laps towards the end of the day.
Some pros and cons are greatly appreciated. Like I said I'm only hitting the river no lakes. So pros and cons on the river, maintenance, money spent on a v drive compared to jet to make her go fast lol. Etc. You guys get the idea.
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I've driven a few. I don't like it because it's too much to do with the down peddle and lock out.
Plus no backwards gear. Idk, it's cool if your into that sort of thing 😲🚤💨💨💨👍👍👍👎👎👎
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I've driven a few. I don't like it because it's too much to do with the down peddle and lock out.
Plus no backwards gear. Idk, it's cool if your into that sort of thing 😲🚤💨💨💨👍👍👍👎👎👎
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Believe me I'm not into that sort of thing that's why I posted this. I have no idea about v drives. Don't some casale or however you spell it, drives have a reverese??? I'm just concerned about the depth of the water at the river on a v drive...maintenance, cost on v drive vs a pump.
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A flat bottom at the lake will beat you too death.
Water is generally smoother at the river.
There is a ton of hardware in a flat, chain and cable steering, down pedals, transmission, v drive.
More than allot of people care to deal with.
Yet faster and more efficient than a jet.
At least that's how I see it.
-beerjet-
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Yes some v-drive boxes have reverse but reverse in a v-drive is pretty much pointless since the steering rudder sits behind the prop or in front of while going in reverse.v drives are much more expensive especially since they are kind of like a show piece.
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I have a free hull with title and a good start on parts the i will sell.
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More to maintain. More to rig. More to climb over. I love my outdrive but the jet was nice in simplicity. I must say... Having a true neutral is amazing.
I'd love to have a transmission in front of my out drive to keep Rpms lower...
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Having owned jets, I/O's and vee drives, you will have the most fun in the vee drive hands down.
Some things to consider.. Just comparing it to a jet.
1. You cannot remove the motor, rebuild the drive , throw the motor back in in a weekend, you can with a jet.
2. You simply cannot beach a vee drive.
3. if you find a sand bar with a vee drive, you just spent in excess of $2500
4. Not just anybody can hop in and drive a vee drive. So you are in essence, the designated driver. There are way too many ways to screw up huge in a vee drive.
5. When they break, they break big.
6. Plan on at least 10 times the maintenance.
7. Believe it or not, they are more crude and chunky than they seem. Not a lot of creature comfort.
8. A flatbottom will give you a flat bottom... They ride like crap even in a small chop.
On the positive side, they're great to ski behind and sip fuel when cruising.
GT
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Wow a lot of things to consider. Bottom line maintenance is a bit higher then jet but as long as you don't mess up they cruise with a lot less gas and they haul a** with less money dumped into then a jet. There is the space issue of course which I'm not worried about cause I don't have kids nor do I want any. Couldn't come close to a beach or beach up like a jet of course. I'm back to square one lol. In your guys opinion what could make my decision easier??? Besides the points that have been mentioned cause it's 50/50 again.
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Wow a lot of things to consider. Bottom line maintenance is a bit higher then jet but as long as you don't mess up they cruise with a lot less gas and they haul a** with less money dumped into then a jet. There is the space issue of course which I'm not worried about cause I don't have kids nor do I want any. Couldn't come close to a beach or beach up like a jet of course. I'm back to square one lol. In your guys opinion what could make my decision easier??? Besides the points that have been mentioned cause it's 50/50 again.
Where did that come from?
I could build two VERY nice jet boats with the drive train from one flat bottom... :screwy:
GT
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Bottom line maintenance is a bit higher then jet but as long as you don't mess up they cruise with a lot less gas and they haul a** with less money dumped into then a jet.
No.
-beerjet-
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if you throw enough money at anything it will be quick...
but ive been in a fast nitrous jet, and it was nothing like being in a flatbottom vdrive. crazy fast... :screwy: but getting it to that point is no easy task.
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Ok...let me try this again then...If you take a flat bottom and a comparable jet boat hull throw the same amount of money at it let's say 10k which is more reliable and of course faster?
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Bare with me fellas I read numerous posts on other sites but nothing answered my questions so where better to ask then here...km just gonna go question by question then if you guys don't mind.
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I'm assuming a jet is easier to drive and a lot more practical then a v drive by practical I mean space wise and not that many pedals and of course getting as close to the beach as possible hehe. Am I getting close with my guess?
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I've owned 2 v-drives before. Never had any issues as far as break downs or mechanical failures in either of them. Some have reserve and it works just fine only problem is you usually have to shut the engine off before you shift into reverse then fire it back up.
And yes ask anyone who has owned a few v-drives and they will tell you it cost much less to go fast in a v-drive. Jet boats are incredibly inefficient when compared to a v-drive. You can swap out the gears in the drive, change props etc...
I bought a 1972 flat bottom sanger years ago. It had a punched out 350 small block with a crane blue racer cam and corvette heads on it and I hit 82 mph. Can't imagine what a big rat motor would have been like in it.
The ride can get pretty rough when your in a flatty but its not terrible, you gotta weigh out the pros and cons. If you find a solid v-drive you'll spend way less in gas, go faster and imo have better handling but you'll sacrifice roominess, a rooster tail and you run the risk of being out $3k if you hit any rocks or sand bars.
Here some pics of my old Sanger:
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Ok...let me try this again then...If you take a flat bottom and a comparable jet boat hull throw the same amount of money at it let's say 10k which is more reliable and of course faster?
Flat bottom jet vs true flat?
V bottom jet vs v bottom v drive?
Apple's and oranges.
other than floating, at almost no point are they comparable.
A motorless flat bottom hull is at least double the cost of a motorless jet hull.
Right off the bat it's one sided and you're not even talking about power yet.
10k how?
New motor?
Used blower motor?
Does the flat have a trans?
It's all a moot point if you ask me.
-beerjet-
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Ok...let me try this again then...If you take a flat bottom and a comparable jet boat hull throw the same amount of money at it let's say 10k which is more reliable and of course faster?
An outboard
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The only difference of running a jet or a v drive on the river is how shallow the water gets the cost of running a v drive or a jet v drive cost less to run maintenance on v drive is more money just in a different areas but whatever you pick have fun
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This is good stuff since new job ive been looking at bigger boats something i can take to mead n sleep on n i found one nice v dtive n have now been confused 9n boats n know NOTHING about v drives shit i barely know about my jet. Here they are i thaught on a larger boat a vdrive would be a faster boat
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At big river, a jet or wacker or I/o is a safer deal. You can't trim up the running gear in a v-drive.
Boating is only fun if your boating. Boating is not fun if you're fixing the boat. What do you want to do?...work on it or ride in it? Something I've learned over the years...more shit to go wrong means more shit will go wrong, which is why I have my current boat. I've spent less on repairs in 3 years than I spent on gas in one season in my white boat. I don't even wanna talk about fixing the damn white boat.
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I've owned 2 v-drives before. Never had any issues as far as break downs or mechanical failures in either of them. Some have reserve and it works just fine only problem is you usually have to shut the engine off before you shift into reverse then fire it back up.
And yes ask anyone who has owned a few v-drives and they will tell you it cost much less to go fast in a v-drive. Jet boats are incredibly inefficient when compared to a v-drive. You can swap out the gears in the drive, change props etc...
I bought a 1972 flat bottom sanger years ago. It had a punched out 350 small block with a crane blue racer cam and corvette heads on it and I hit 82 mph. Can't imagine what a big rat motor would have been like in it.
The ride can get pretty rough when your in a flatty but its not terrible, you gotta weigh out the pros and cons. If you find a solid v-drive you'll spend way less in gas, go faster and imo have better handling but you'll sacrifice roominess, a rooster tail and you run the risk of being out $3k if you hit any rocks or sand bars.
Here some pics of my old Sanger:
Sent from my iPhone using SoCal Jet Boats
Nice Sanger. Thx for the input I really appreciate it.
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Flat bottom jet vs true flat?
V bottom jet vs v bottom v drive?
Apple's and oranges.
other than floating, at almost no point are they comparable.
A motorless flat bottom hull is at least double the cost of a motorless jet hull.
Right off the bat it's one sided and you're not even talking about power yet.
10k how?
New motor?
Used blower motor?
Does the flat have a trans?
It's all a moot point if you ask me.
-beerjet-
Starting off with 2 hulls that cost the same I'm not sure what v drive hulls go for but let's take a jet hull and comparable v drive hull and throw 10k towards it, Half into the motor half into the pump/drive, what's the outcome? Doesn't matter if it's v bottom, flat, true flat...just 2 comparable hulls.
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At big river, a jet or wacker or I/o is a safer deal. You can't trim up the running gear in a v-drive.
Boating is only fun if your boating. Boating is not fun if you're fixing the boat. What do you want to do?...work on it or ride in it? Something I've learned over the years...more shit to go wrong means more shit will go wrong, which is why I have my current boat. I've spent less on repairs in 3 years than I spent on gas in one season in my white boat. I don't even wanna talk about fixing the damn white boat.
Damn pat I know your Wacker is bada** it impressed the living crap out of me and I've been looking into some tunnel wackers but I can't get my self to spend between 8-10k and have my boat sound like a damn single cam Honda civic with a can strapped onto the exhaust.
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Starting off with 2 hulls that cost the same I'm not sure what v drive hulls go for but let's take a jet hull and comparable v drive hull and throw 10k towards it, Half into the motor half into the pump/drive, what's the outcome? Doesn't matter if it's v bottom, flat, true flat...just 2 comparable hulls.
Everything matters.
End result is most imported.
I'd start with that.
Come up with a purpose and where you boat and go from there.
Point being v drives are generally faster and more efficient and more expensive right from the start.
-beerjet-
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Everything matters.
End result is most imported.
I'd start with that.
Come up with a purpose and where you boat and go from there.
Point being v drives are generally faster and more efficient and more expensive right from the start.
-beerjet-
Damn it beerjet why do you have to make it so hard hehe.
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V-drives are definitely more fun and more exciting to drive I have a 21 eliminator v-drive cruiser and I spend most of my time on Parker and my brother had a Sanger flat bottom v-drive that he used to take to Parker all the time just have to be more cautious and beaching is not an option I wouldn't recommend taking a flatly to the lake at all all your teeth would be gone by the end of the day still love the jets but my v-drive sure is nice
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Starting off with 2 hulls that cost the same I'm not sure what v drive hulls go for but let's take a jet hull and comparable v drive hull and throw 10k towards it, Half into the motor half into the pump/drive, what's the outcome? Doesn't matter if it's v bottom, flat, true flat...just 2 comparable hulls.
Let me say it like this.
Since you're talking two seater type go fast stuff, no comparison. The 17-18' Big block jet will likely be a V bottom, the same V-drive will more than likely be a flat.
Sort of like comparing a small turbo charged import sports car to that of big power V-8 muscle car. Can't really be done fairly.
Now, if you were talking 21' day cruiser, you can keep the jet, I want a V drive in that bad-boy, also want a Turbohydromatic 400 and through transom exhaust...
GT
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Damn it beerjet why do you have to make it so hard hehe.
I know!
A v drive cruiser will give you the best of both worlds.
Plenty of room, handing, efficiency, and it'll empty your wallet the fastest.
Boom done!
-beerjet-
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I know!
A v drive cruiser will give you the best of both worlds.
Plenty of room, handing, efficiency, and it'll empty your wallet the fastest.
Boom done!
-beerjet-
There we go easy answer...v drive cruiser it will be and I'll be living under the bridge in the boat lol.
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There we go easy answer...v drive cruiser it will be and I'll be living under the bridge in the boat lol.
For the most part.
-beerjet-
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Nice rides
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My cruiser hasn't cost me much yet I got it turn key and super clean for an excellent price
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My cruiser hasn't cost me much yet I got it turn key and super clean for an excellent price
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If you don't kind me asking??? What's turn keys? Can we see pics? Price? I'd appreciate it.
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I liken this to the AK vs. AR argument. My solution, get both and enjoy each for what it is. Sure there is the argument that if you train with both, you will never be as good as you could if you only trained with one platform.
I grew up and learned to ski behind a 19-foot 69 Hallett V-drive V-bottom on Lake Tahoe. Sure it was a lot small for Tahoe, especially in the white caps. I remember that that thing rode really nice and was relatively fast for the cement mixer BBC that it had in it. Yes, it had a cramped interior compared to a jet or an I/O. It did have a Casale “crash box” (with reverse), but we never used the reverse. The owner said it was best to just stop the engine before shifting into reverse. IMO, the Powerglide is the way to go. I have been involved with a few V-drives that have used TH400 with 1st gear removed. The before mentioned 69 Hallett, at one time, had a TH400 and the owner said that 1st was useless. 2nd gear was used for taking up slack in the ski ropes and reverse was used instead of shifting the Casale. I would consider a Lenco reverser.
As with any boat, routine maintenance is the key to longevity. Contrary to popular belief, jets actually do require routine inspection and maintenance. Just because a V-drive is slightly more complex than a jet, that shouldn’t put you off. I was intimately involved in the repair and maintenance of my friend’s 69 Hallett, mainly because I was eager and loved to wrench on it. The most common failure was the water pump impeller getting chewed up. As far as the Casale, it is just a few bearings and gears. Much simpler than a manual transmission which have proven themselves reliable for many tens of thousands of miles all while being neglected. If you go the auto tranny route, the longevity there will be comparable or even more so than a road vehicle as the main source of heat, the torque converter, is eliminated and only a small heat exchanger is required.
As far as the complexity of the rigging, do you really need the capability of a K-boat? If your primary goals are “All I want to do is put to a beach and make do some hot laps towards the end of the day” you can get away with a basic shifter on your trim plates similar to a manual Place Diverter. That is all that 69 Hallett had, actually they never even shifted it. I have even seen several boats rigged with no trim adjustment at all beyond just the turn buckles. How is that for simplicity?
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I liken this to the AK vs. AR argument. My solution, get both and enjoy each for what it is. Sure there is the argument that if you train with both, you will never be as good as you could if you only trained with one platform.
I grew up and learned to ski behind a 19-foot 69 Hallett V-drive V-bottom on Lake Tahoe. Sure it was a lot small for Tahoe, especially in the white caps. I remember that that thing rode really nice and was relatively fast for the cement mixer BBC that it had in it. Yes, it had a cramped interior compared to a jet or an I/O. It did have a Casale “crash box” (with reverse), but we never used the reverse. The owner said it was best to just stop the engine before shifting into reverse. IMO, the Powerglide is the way to go. I have been involved with a few V-drives that have used TH400 with 1st gear removed. The before mentioned 69 Hallett, at one time, had a TH400 and the owner said that 1st was useless. 2nd gear was used for taking up slack in the ski ropes and reverse was used instead of shifting the Casale. I would consider a Lenco reverser.
As with any boat, routine maintenance is the key to longevity. Contrary to popular belief, jets actually do require routine inspection and maintenance. Just because a V-drive is slightly more complex than a jet, that shouldn’t put you off. I was intimately involved in the repair and maintenance of my friend’s 69 Hallett, mainly because I was eager and loved to wrench on it. The most common failure was the water pump impeller getting chewed up. As far as the Casale, it is just a few bearings and gears. Much simpler than a manual transmission which have proven themselves reliable for many tens of thousands of miles all while being neglected. If you go the auto tranny route, the longevity there will be comparable or even more so than a road vehicle as the main source of heat, the torque converter, is eliminated and only a small heat exchanger is required.
As far as the complexity of the rigging, do you really need the capability of a K-boat? If your primary goals are “All I want to do is put to a beach and make do some hot laps towards the end of the day” you can get away with a basic shifter on your trim plates similar to a manual Place Diverter. That is all that 69 Hallett had, actually they never even shifted it. I have even seen several boats rigged with no trim adjustment at all beyond just the turn buckles. How is that for simplicity?
Fu**ing thank you!!!! My question was answered.
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What I mean by turn key is just that pick it up from the guy take it to the river and run it without having to fix a thing. All I have done to this boat is wash it wax it change fluids put gas in it and drive it. Oh I did change the prob because I wanted to didn't really need it but that was not cheep around $600-700. I paid 11k for it 4 years ago with 230 original hours on it. BBC 454 with turbo 400 c500 casale v-drive electric cav plates
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Now, if you were talking 21' day cruiser, you can keep the jet, I want a V drive in that bad-boy, also want a Turbohydromatic 400 and through transom exhaust...
my favorite boat was my dads ol 21 vdrive tarva. blown motor with an art-carr t400 in it.
(https://www.socaljetboats.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.brainbox.us%2Fmisc%2Fbb%2FIMG_6361%2520Eng%2520Pass.JPG&hash=783b507e4ae0e174b44f7fbf6691e78c444b99dd)
(https://www.socaljetboats.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.brainbox.us%2Fmisc%2Fbb%2FIMG_6364%2520Inside.JPG&hash=6fbbb3f8747282e02c70e352c4680d7610422a25)
(https://www.socaljetboats.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.brainbox.us%2Fmisc%2Fbb%2FIMG_5883%2520Engine%2520Complete.JPG&hash=c46a79b5490b209eb8231be7d5915bef7768191b)
1st gear was for putting. 2nd for pulling. 3rd for WOT make your cheeks flap funtime. Easy to get in/out of with the cav plates, plenty of room inside and under the bow for a big ice chest. nice and deep and rode great.
I'd buy the boat if i could...
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and my dads old flatbottom that i grew up in at martinez/yuma and learned to ski behind.
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/t31.0-8/10256391_10152191203814833_2299971702101310719_o.jpg)http://(https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc1/t31.0-8/1941587_10152191203819833_7788340265496091674_o.jpg)
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I went through my V-drive faze too. I sold it and bought a Daytona. The vdrive was fun, but like people say they are a little more expensive to fix the CASALE. The gears that people talk about changing are not cheap, neither are the bearings, and dogs for shifting. If you are anything like me and you cant leave anything alone, you will dump money super fast into accessories like and air shifter, cav plate hardware ect.. The vdrives have a lot more rigging and stuff to change which will get expensive. The jets are slower, sometimes. A lot of it has to do with set up more than anything. The flat bottoms need smooth water and good cav set up to be fast and save, along with gearing, prop selection, prop shaft material, prop shaft length, box angle the list keeps going. That list will get you to run lets say 90. A jet doesn't have as many things to change. If you build the pump right once, to match your motor specs then it will run good. You can ad a diverter, ride plate, shoe, and set the intake back. The jet will be safer in most cases I think. I sold the Daytona because I needed more room, and to save some money for a house. There are a lot of v-drives out there that claim to run hard, but they don't. If you hang out in big river there are a lot of fast jets down there. My brothers Eliminator Cruiser, is a great boat that he literally hasn't done anything to. He just drives it. The rigging on the bottom is the only reason I didn't look for a Vdrive cruiser.
Hope that helps a little bit. I started to ramble :banghead:
The Beav
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A v-drive is way more exspensive to build and more to maintain then a jet, not by much if there set up right. There is alot more to go over before you take it out every time, and if you don't somthing can let go and get you hurt. If it was my decsion I would go with a nice tunnel jet, there fast and do not have all the shit you have to worry about. I race v-drives and love them, but if you do not have the patience for them or a understanding about them then they can be a pain in the ass. Getting them to work right requires alot of money and time, and unless your willing to do that then stick with the jet. Once they are set up and running good there is nothing like driving a 100mph flattie ,but for a good river boat just get a nice jet
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I now have both a v-drive and a jet. The v-drive will always be more fun from the drivers seat! No questions about it. I got pretty good a packing a lot of shit into my Hondo to get down to the sand bar for the day. Couple chairs, coolers, my lady and our dog. I trained our golden retriever to lay on the deck wile we cruised and it worked. If the boat was nicer and painted that would have never worked! And who says you can't beach a v-drive? You can't drive up onto the beach but you certainly can get out, walk it close and grab the bow eye and bring it up on the sand. I've even done that at Elsinore. The v-drives drive so easy too, point the nose where you want to go, no adjusting back and forth and they will turn if the engine shuts off, that rudder is an amazing thing that jets just don't have. I don't like turning around in my jet, feels like it takes all the river to do it. My Hondo, you can turn that thing around sooooo much tighter.
Both boats are cool and have their advantages/disadvantages. I would wager that if you got the chance to go for a ride/drive a mild flat, you would be amazed!! My Hondo w/ a 427 Chevy will go 90. Its no joke and needs to be respected but its so much fun.
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and my dads old flatbottom that i grew up in at martinez/yuma and learned to ski behind.
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/t31.0-8/10256391_10152191203814833_2299971702101310719_o.jpg)http://(https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc1/t31.0-8/1941587_10152191203819833_7788340265496091674_o.jpg)
where'd you hook the rope?
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its changed some with the next owner... you could ask these guys...
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/t31.0-8/1026089_10151526354404833_984609001_o.jpg)
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where'd you hook the rope?
Pretty common set up
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then his friend had a 147 boat as well... heres my dad making a pass in it.
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/t31.0-8/1015217_10151526354914833_1396702858_o.jpg)
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/t31.0-8/965568_10151526354319833_383507655_o.jpg)
down at martinez/yuma
(https://scontent-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/t31.0-8/1014552_10151526354264833_1527474652_o.jpg)
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Those are bitchen pics!
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All I'm gonna say is I'm going back to a vdrive but that's cause I have a jet also. But in my opinion vdrives can be a but pricer then a jet depending on how far you want to take it and what fits your needs and life style. I grew up on flatty a bit my dad told me to sell the vdrive and buy a jet for my safety lol. But in the end it's up to you and what your trying to achieve and what suits your needs. Boating isn't cheap to begin with unless your on a run to Bert's and finance a 120 a month twin jet yamaha. But with that being said it's all about the experience and fun times and memories you create while boating
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I've had both...still have one of each. At the end of the day i can't compare, both are fun in different ways. As for setup and maintenance both are about the same to me...pump rebuilds happen more often than v-drive or tranny rebuilds. Pick the boat that looks best to you.
My boats (still have the first two)
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I've had both...still have one of each. At the end of the day i can't compare, both are fun in different ways. As for setup and maintenance both are about the same to me...pump rebuilds happen more often than v-drive or tranny rebuilds. Pick the boat that looks best to you.
Concur with the personal preference. my first boat was a 79 SWTD BBF, bitchen boat, very dependable and forgiving. my current boat is an old flatty that gave me an education (and still is) in mechanics and basic physics. there are a lot of times I really miss having the pump, but there's nothing cooler than hammering an old flatty across the lake