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GeneralLee

  • Karma: +10/-0
Re: Jet vs v drive
« Reply #25 on: May 11, 2014, 11:46:24 AM »
Everything matters.
End result is most imported.
I'd start with that.
Come up with a purpose and where you boat and go from there.
Point being v drives are generally faster and more efficient and more expensive right from the start.

-beerjet-

Damn it beerjet why do you have to make it so hard hehe.



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RedSnapperSlapper

  • Karma: +2/-0
Re: Jet vs v drive
« Reply #26 on: May 11, 2014, 11:50:40 AM »
V-drives are definitely more fun and more exciting to drive I have a 21 eliminator v-drive cruiser and I spend most of my time on Parker and my brother had a Sanger flat bottom v-drive that he used to take to Parker all the time just have to be more cautious and beaching is not an option I wouldn't recommend taking a flatly to the lake at all all your teeth would be gone by the end of the day still love the jets but my v-drive sure is nice


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Beaveretreivers Little Brother

1989 24' Magic deck boat I/O
1986 Eliminator 20.5' V-drive Cruiser

GT Jets

  • Karma: +192/-0
Re: Jet vs v drive
« Reply #27 on: May 11, 2014, 11:52:27 AM »
Starting off with 2 hulls that cost the same I'm not sure what v drive hulls go for but let's take a jet hull and comparable v drive hull and throw 10k towards it,  Half into the motor half into the pump/drive, what's the outcome? Doesn't matter if it's v bottom, flat, true flat...just 2 comparable hulls.



Let me say it like this.

Since you're talking two seater type go fast stuff, no comparison. The 17-18' Big block jet will likely be a V bottom, the same V-drive will more than likely be a flat.

Sort of like comparing a small turbo charged import sports car to that of big power V-8 muscle car. Can't really be done fairly.

Now, if you were talking 21' day cruiser, you can keep the jet, I want a V drive in that bad-boy, also want a Turbohydromatic 400 and through transom exhaust...

GT
  • Boat #1: 1992 Carrera 20.5 Elite (I/O bitches)
  • Boat #2: 19' Bubble deck Jet BBC Berkeley
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If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

Time to man up and yank it John!  :banghead:
Ray

beerjet

  • Karma: +81/-0
Re: Jet vs v drive
« Reply #28 on: May 11, 2014, 11:53:40 AM »
Damn it beerjet why do you have to make it so hard hehe.


I know!
A v drive cruiser will give you the best of both worlds.
Plenty of room, handing, efficiency, and it'll empty your wallet the fastest.
Boom done!


-beerjet-

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i dont but im all for stuffin shit in her ass to make her go away :-*

GeneralLee

  • Karma: +10/-0
Re: Jet vs v drive
« Reply #29 on: May 11, 2014, 11:55:04 AM »
I know!
A v drive cruiser will give you the best of both worlds.
Plenty of room, handing, efficiency, and it'll empty your wallet the fastest.
Boom done!


-beerjet-

There we go easy answer...v drive cruiser it will be and I'll be living under the bridge in the boat lol.



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beerjet

  • Karma: +81/-0
Re: Jet vs v drive
« Reply #30 on: May 11, 2014, 11:56:33 AM »
There we go easy answer...v drive cruiser it will be and I'll be living under the bridge in the boat lol.


For the most part.

-beerjet-

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i dont but im all for stuffin shit in her ass to make her go away :-*

bronco1

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Jet vs v drive
« Reply #31 on: May 11, 2014, 12:02:56 PM »
Nice rides

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RedSnapperSlapper

  • Karma: +2/-0
Re: Jet vs v drive
« Reply #32 on: May 11, 2014, 01:23:57 PM »
My cruiser hasn't cost me much yet I got it turn key and super clean for an excellent price


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Beaveretreivers Little Brother

1989 24' Magic deck boat I/O
1986 Eliminator 20.5' V-drive Cruiser

GeneralLee

  • Karma: +10/-0
Re: Jet vs v drive
« Reply #33 on: May 11, 2014, 11:07:54 PM »
My cruiser hasn't cost me much yet I got it turn key and super clean for an excellent price


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If you don't kind me asking??? What's turn keys? Can we see pics? Price? I'd appreciate it.



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Flusher

  • Karma: +84/-0
Re: Jet vs v drive
« Reply #34 on: May 12, 2014, 01:04:34 AM »
I liken this to the AK vs. AR argument.  My solution, get both and enjoy each for what it is.  Sure there is the argument that if you train with both, you will never be as good as you could if you only trained with one platform.

I grew up and learned to ski behind a 19-foot 69 Hallett V-drive V-bottom on Lake Tahoe.  Sure it was a lot small for Tahoe, especially in the white caps.  I remember that that thing rode really nice and was relatively fast for the cement mixer BBC that it had in it.  Yes, it had a cramped interior compared to a jet or an I/O.  It did have a Casale “crash box” (with reverse), but we never used the reverse.  The owner said it was best to just stop the engine before shifting into reverse.  IMO, the Powerglide is the way to go.  I have been involved with a few V-drives that have used TH400 with 1st gear removed.  The before mentioned 69 Hallett, at one time, had a TH400 and the owner said that 1st was useless.  2nd gear was used for taking up slack in the ski ropes and reverse was used instead of shifting the Casale.  I would consider a Lenco reverser.

As with any boat, routine maintenance is the key to longevity.  Contrary to popular belief, jets actually do require routine inspection and maintenance.  Just because a V-drive is slightly more complex than a jet, that shouldn’t put you off.  I was intimately involved in the repair and maintenance of my friend’s 69 Hallett, mainly because I was eager and loved to wrench on it.  The most common failure was the water pump impeller getting chewed up.  As far as the Casale, it is just a few bearings and gears.  Much simpler than a manual transmission which have proven themselves reliable for many tens of thousands of miles all while being neglected.  If you go the auto tranny route, the longevity there will be comparable or even more so than a road vehicle as the main source of heat, the torque converter, is eliminated and only a small heat exchanger is required.

As far as the complexity of the rigging, do you really need the capability of a K-boat?  If your primary goals are “All I want to do is put to a beach and make do some hot laps towards the end of the day” you can get away with a basic shifter on your trim plates similar to a manual Place Diverter.  That is all that 69 Hallett had, actually they never even shifted it.  I have even seen several boats rigged with no trim adjustment at all beyond just the turn buckles.  How is that for simplicity?
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"I want to roll with my brother Joe" - Joe Bateman - January 29, 1950 ~ November 27, 2013

GeneralLee

  • Karma: +10/-0
Re: Jet vs v drive
« Reply #35 on: May 12, 2014, 01:20:28 AM »
I liken this to the AK vs. AR argument.  My solution, get both and enjoy each for what it is.  Sure there is the argument that if you train with both, you will never be as good as you could if you only trained with one platform.

I grew up and learned to ski behind a 19-foot 69 Hallett V-drive V-bottom on Lake Tahoe.  Sure it was a lot small for Tahoe, especially in the white caps.  I remember that that thing rode really nice and was relatively fast for the cement mixer BBC that it had in it.  Yes, it had a cramped interior compared to a jet or an I/O.  It did have a Casale “crash box” (with reverse), but we never used the reverse.  The owner said it was best to just stop the engine before shifting into reverse.  IMO, the Powerglide is the way to go.  I have been involved with a few V-drives that have used TH400 with 1st gear removed.  The before mentioned 69 Hallett, at one time, had a TH400 and the owner said that 1st was useless.  2nd gear was used for taking up slack in the ski ropes and reverse was used instead of shifting the Casale.  I would consider a Lenco reverser.

As with any boat, routine maintenance is the key to longevity.  Contrary to popular belief, jets actually do require routine inspection and maintenance.  Just because a V-drive is slightly more complex than a jet, that shouldn’t put you off.  I was intimately involved in the repair and maintenance of my friend’s 69 Hallett, mainly because I was eager and loved to wrench on it.  The most common failure was the water pump impeller getting chewed up.  As far as the Casale, it is just a few bearings and gears.  Much simpler than a manual transmission which have proven themselves reliable for many tens of thousands of miles all while being neglected.  If you go the auto tranny route, the longevity there will be comparable or even more so than a road vehicle as the main source of heat, the torque converter, is eliminated and only a small heat exchanger is required.

As far as the complexity of the rigging, do you really need the capability of a K-boat?  If your primary goals are “All I want to do is put to a beach and make do some hot laps towards the end of the day” you can get away with a basic shifter on your trim plates similar to a manual Place Diverter.  That is all that 69 Hallett had, actually they never even shifted it.  I have even seen several boats rigged with no trim adjustment at all beyond just the turn buckles.  How is that for simplicity?

Fu**ing thank you!!!! My question was answered.



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RedSnapperSlapper

  • Karma: +2/-0
Re: Jet vs v drive
« Reply #36 on: May 12, 2014, 10:33:25 AM »
What I mean by turn key is just that pick it up from the guy take it to the river and run it without having to fix a thing. All I have done to this boat is wash it wax it change fluids put gas in it and drive it. Oh I did change the prob because I wanted to didn't really need it but that was not cheep around $600-700. I paid 11k for it 4 years ago with 230 original hours on it. BBC 454 with turbo 400 c500 casale v-drive electric cav plates



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Beaveretreivers Little Brother

1989 24' Magic deck boat I/O
1986 Eliminator 20.5' V-drive Cruiser

ka0tyk

  • Karma: +30/-0
Re: Jet vs v drive
« Reply #37 on: May 12, 2014, 10:45:09 AM »
Now, if you were talking 21' day cruiser, you can keep the jet, I want a V drive in that bad-boy, also want a Turbohydromatic 400 and through transom exhaust...

my favorite boat was my dads ol 21 vdrive tarva.  blown motor with an art-carr t400 in it.







1st gear was for putting.  2nd for pulling.  3rd for WOT make your cheeks flap funtime.  Easy to get in/out of with the cav plates, plenty of room inside and under the bow for a big ice chest.  nice and deep and rode great. 

I'd buy the boat if i could...
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ka0tyk

  • Karma: +30/-0
Re: Jet vs v drive
« Reply #38 on: May 12, 2014, 10:47:41 AM »
and my dads old flatbottom that i grew up in at martinez/yuma and learned to ski behind. 

http://
« Last Edit: May 12, 2014, 10:50:58 AM by ka0tyk »
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Beaveretriever

  • Karma: +34/-0
Re: Jet vs v drive
« Reply #39 on: May 12, 2014, 12:31:20 PM »
I went through my V-drive faze too. I sold it and bought a Daytona. The vdrive was fun, but like people say they are a little more expensive to fix the CASALE. The gears that people talk about changing are not cheap, neither are the bearings, and dogs for shifting. If you are anything like me and you cant leave anything alone, you will dump money super fast into accessories like and air shifter, cav plate hardware ect.. The vdrives have a lot more rigging and stuff to change which will get expensive. The jets are slower, sometimes. A lot of it has to do with set up more than anything. The flat bottoms need smooth water and good cav set up to be fast and save, along with gearing, prop selection, prop shaft material, prop shaft length, box angle the list keeps going. That list will get you to run lets say 90. A jet doesn't have as many things to change. If you build the pump right once, to match your motor specs then it will run good. You can ad a diverter, ride plate, shoe, and set the intake back. The jet will be safer in most cases I think. I sold the Daytona because I needed more room, and to save some money for a house. There are a lot of v-drives out there that claim to run hard, but they don't. If you hang out in big river there are a lot of fast jets down there. My brothers Eliminator Cruiser, is a great boat that he literally hasn't done anything to. He just drives it. The rigging on the bottom is the only reason I didn't look for a Vdrive cruiser.

Hope that helps a little bit. I started to ramble  :banghead:

The Beav
  • Boat #1: 1981 Eliminator Daytona 19' Jet
  • Boat #2: 2003 22' Placecraft Deck boat
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K-034

  • Karma: +23/-0
Re: Jet vs v drive
« Reply #40 on: May 12, 2014, 02:05:24 PM »
A v-drive is way more exspensive to build and more to maintain then a jet, not by much if there set up right. There is alot more to go over before you take it out every time, and if you don't somthing can let go and get you hurt. If it was my decsion I would go with a nice tunnel jet, there fast and do not have all the shit you have to worry about. I race v-drives and love them, but if you do not have the patience for them or a understanding about them then they can be a pain in the ass. Getting them to work right requires alot of money and time, and unless your willing to do that then stick with the jet. Once they are set up and running good there is nothing like driving a 100mph flattie ,but for a good river boat just get a nice jet
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warpt71

  • Karma: +9/-0
Re: Jet vs v drive
« Reply #41 on: May 12, 2014, 05:08:51 PM »
I now have both a v-drive and a jet. The v-drive will always be more fun from the drivers seat! No questions about it. I got pretty good a packing a lot of shit into my Hondo to get down to the sand bar for the day. Couple chairs, coolers, my lady and our dog. I trained our golden retriever to lay on the deck wile we cruised and it worked. If the boat was nicer and painted that would have never worked! And who says you can't beach a v-drive? You can't drive up onto the beach but you certainly can get out, walk it close and grab the bow eye and bring it up on the sand. I've even done that at Elsinore. The v-drives drive so easy too, point the nose where you want to go, no adjusting back and forth and they will turn if the engine shuts off, that rudder is an amazing thing that jets just don't have. I don't like turning around in my jet, feels like it takes all the river to do it. My Hondo, you can turn that thing around sooooo much tighter.

Both boats are cool and have their advantages/disadvantages. I would wager that if you got the chance to go for a ride/drive a mild flat, you would be amazed!! My Hondo w/ a 427 Chevy will go 90. Its no joke and needs to be respected but its so much fun.
  • Boat #1: 71 Hondo Flat
  • Boat #2: 89 Carrera Elite 20.5
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lbhsbz

  • Karma: +29/-1
Re: Jet vs v drive
« Reply #42 on: May 12, 2014, 05:22:18 PM »
and my dads old flatbottom that i grew up in at martinez/yuma and learned to ski behind. 

http://

where'd you hook the rope?
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ka0tyk

  • Karma: +30/-0
Re: Jet vs v drive
« Reply #43 on: May 12, 2014, 06:03:26 PM »
its changed some with the next owner... you could ask these guys...

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warpt71

  • Karma: +9/-0
Re: Jet vs v drive
« Reply #44 on: May 12, 2014, 06:03:46 PM »
where'd you hook the rope?

Pretty common set up

  • Boat #1: 71 Hondo Flat
  • Boat #2: 89 Carrera Elite 20.5
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ka0tyk

  • Karma: +30/-0
Re: Jet vs v drive
« Reply #45 on: May 12, 2014, 06:13:32 PM »
then his friend had a 147 boat as well... heres my dad making a pass in it.





down at martinez/yuma

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warpt71

  • Karma: +9/-0
Re: Jet vs v drive
« Reply #46 on: May 12, 2014, 07:01:05 PM »
Those are bitchen pics!
  • Boat #1: 71 Hondo Flat
  • Boat #2: 89 Carrera Elite 20.5
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Just Electric

  • Karma: +28/-0
Re: Jet vs v drive
« Reply #47 on: May 12, 2014, 07:57:34 PM »
All I'm gonna say is I'm going back to a vdrive but that's cause I have a jet also. But in my opinion vdrives can be a but pricer then a jet depending on how far you want to take it and what fits your needs and life style. I grew up on flatty a bit my dad told me to sell the vdrive and buy a jet for my safety lol. But in the end it's up to you and what your trying to achieve and what suits your needs. Boating isn't cheap to begin with unless your on a run to Bert's and finance a 120 a month twin jet yamaha. But with that being said it's all about the experience and fun times and memories you create while boating


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tpltrbl303

  • Karma: +13/-0
Re: Jet vs v drive
« Reply #48 on: May 12, 2014, 07:58:42 PM »
I've had both...still have one of each.  At the end of the day i can't compare, both are fun in different ways. As for setup and maintenance both are about the same to me...pump rebuilds happen more often than v-drive or tranny rebuilds.  Pick the boat that looks best to you.

My boats (still have the first two)
 


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  • Boat #1: 75 Liberty
  • Boat #2: 93 Sanger 20DXII
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The basket is no way to withdraw from a race.

Wayne Zighter

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Jet vs v drive
« Reply #49 on: May 12, 2014, 10:03:28 PM »
I've had both...still have one of each.  At the end of the day i can't compare, both are fun in different ways. As for setup and maintenance both are about the same to me...pump rebuilds happen more often than v-drive or tranny rebuilds.  Pick the boat that looks best to you.

Concur with the personal preference. my first boat was a 79 SWTD BBF, bitchen boat, very dependable and forgiving. my current  boat is an old flatty that gave me an education (and still is) in mechanics and basic physics. there are a lot of times I really miss having the pump, but there's nothing cooler than hammering an old flatty across the lake
  • Boat #1: 69,Stevens 17 silouette Flatty
  • Boat #2: 72 fresno
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AKA Sis Q Kid

 


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