Managing Expectations

« **on:** January 23, 2009, 06:44:22 PM »

Hi all --

New to the board and just picked up my first jet in late August. I've only been able to get her wet once, and at the time the Tach wasn't working so I couldn't tell or push my mps. I'm not the mechnical type so I'm not going to do much with the engine, so it is what it is.

My basic qustion is this. I have a 1977 19' Bayon, nunning a 455 olds, Berkeley jet. Not sure if the engine is stock or what but the mechanic that worked on my boat raced outlaws with the same motor, and his comment was the engine sounds very strong. His comment was not to push past 5K on the rps for long and 4500 would be fine.

What should I expect as far as speed goes? Sure wish it was summer and I could find out myself.

As info, my first time on the water I did hit 48 mpr on the GPS but again no clue on my tac at the time.

« **Reply #1 on:** January 23, 2009, 06:49:43 PM »

Adding pics for reference

« **Reply #2 on:** January 23, 2009, 06:50:01 PM »

my question is did he do any oil modifications to the motor?

olds are nutorious for not draining the oil back down into the pan quick enough causing it to starve for oil.

ols motors are great work horses....my dad had a olds in his tahiti.....it had its quirks, but it ran the family all over parker, havasu, lake mohave, etc for years......then we sold it to this guy who put headers on it, tunnel ram, etc....he wanted a hot rod....first trip out he blew it up.

its all about how you drive it and what you expect it to do. if you just want to roll around the river and whatnot, its a great motor....but i wouldnt go hot doggin around in it.

« **Reply #3 on:** January 23, 2009, 06:53:33 PM »

We had a 455 Olds once...

May it rest in peace

« **Reply #4 on:** January 23, 2009, 06:54:40 PM »

Brad, not sure about the engine modifications, previous owner had no idea. The oil comment makes me a little worried I'll need to look into that.

Not planning on too much hot dogging, my kids were holding on for dear life at 48 mpr... loved every minute of that.

« **Reply #5 on:** January 23, 2009, 07:05:41 PM »

OIl modifications of Olds/Pontiac engines are needed no matter what. I know for a fact that pontiac engines have a bypass in the system to bypass the filter above 5k, and have heard Olds did the same thing. This is probably why your mechanic told you to keep it below 5k. There are fixes, but they involve some experts.

The fact that the system bypasses the filter at that speed tells me the oil system is inadequate to begin with. just my .02. Not that they can't be made into great engines, they can, but might be better to change it out for a BBC or BBF if you wanna hot rod it.

Then again, as a family boat, I'd say leave it alone and put a rev limiting MSD unit on it. Even at 45 plenty fast enough to ski behind. Twas my target before testosterone impeded ration.

Ray

« **Reply #6 on:** January 23, 2009, 07:24:39 PM »

Thanks Ray,

I'm not considering any motor changes for now. At 45 mpr the wind is fast and everyone is holding on hard. Not sure what as MSD unit is, can anyone advise? I want to keep the boat as is today, don't want to blow her up just yet, economy says no new motor for now...

« **Reply #7 on:** January 23, 2009, 07:34:01 PM »

MSD is Multiple spark discharge. MSD used to be a brand name years ago. Nowadays, everyone makes them. Basically, you can hook one of these boxes up to your distributor, and have better ignition and the benefit of rpm limiting. It replaces balast resistors and such. Can be hooked to any distributor, points or not. MIght not be a bad thing since your tach is screwed. SAve the engine.

Ray

« **Reply #8 on:** January 23, 2009, 07:45:02 PM »

Thanks Ray,

I'll be putting in all new gagues this winter so I won't be flying blind come summer. I'll check on the MSD option as well, don't want to blow her up.

Thanks for the tips.

« **Reply #9 on:** January 23, 2009, 08:36:08 PM »

Welcome to jet boating. I bought my first jet boat in 1975--an 18' Omega (Tahiti) with a 455 Olds. I ran the heck out of it (5000+ rpms, jumping wakes, racing, etc) because I didn't know any better, and it never let me down in the 5 years I had it. It would run in the low 60s--because we didn't have GPS, we had to run it over a measured mile at the lake. These full speed runs for just under 60 seconds should have exploded the motor according to internet conventional wisdom, butthey didn't. In the 1990s I had a 21' Fresno cruiser with a 455/berkley. When I bought it, it had 17 seasons on it and would run in the low 50s at 4800 rpms. Over the next 8 years, we ran it probably 1000 hours, did nothing to it except oil changes and tune ups, and it lost about 75 rpms each year, until we finally just wore it out.

I would guess that you should be able to hit 55-60 MPH, depending on your motor and the condition of your pump. It'd be a good idea to get a working tach so you can see what the motor is doing. I noticed in your pic that the carb looks pretty small, which could restrict full throttle rpms. I ran a Holley 3310. Then if your rpms go too high compared to the speed (i.e. 48 MPH at 5000rpms) then your pump needs attention.

The most important thing though is to go to the lake and have fun. I know that many of my 4 kids (they're all in there 20s and out on their own) best memories are of the times we spent at the lake playing together.

Again, welcome and hope to see you at the lake this season.
Mark--"Sanger Pete"

« **Reply #10 on:** January 23, 2009, 08:53:24 PM »

hey bayon dude, welcome, and sweet jet boat. let me jump in the mix by saying, i was not so lucky with my olds. 73 18' southwind w/ 455, 3rd time out, hot rodding up and down the river, holding wide open for about 10 second intervals, about 65 mph (5200 rpms) and it blew. no oil.

***may it rest with brad's dads and 2sav's boats***

make sure you have an oversized oilpan (10 qt) and an oil restricor kit if your planning on using your upper rpms, otherwise make sure you back off the throttle every now and then.

i may have an extra oil pan for sale(need to see what my dad has sold), if not, GlassCutter has one for sale. i'm sure tom at www.jetboatperformance.com can help you find something, or www.mondellotwister.com too.

then again i've also heard if it ain't broke don't fix it, but i'm not sure if that applies to olds

good luck!

« **Reply #11 on:** January 23, 2009, 09:00:10 PM »

welcome to the site and good looking float, as everyone said, just be careful with the olds, i went threw a couple in my first jet boat, learned about them and never had a problem again, boat is still running to this day, just a new owner

verify the oil mods, if not done, do them.. and enjoy your new moneypit

« **Reply #12 on:** January 23, 2009, 09:17:00 PM »

Following Forked and JD is hard, But they reiterate the oiling problems. They are great and know their sheit.

First, oil restriction isn't the problem, as I understand it. Built a few Pontiac 389's and 400's in the day. The problem involves machining larger oil passages to the mains and rods, then , maybe in extreme conditions, restricting oil to the galley area. THEN, doing away with or modifying the spring and oil bypass near the oil filter location.

Back in the late 70's and early 80's, such work could be done by High Performance Pontiac in Hawthorne, Ca. But wasn't cheap, as I recall. They were pretty proud of their work.

Then Again, I repeat, gonna hot rod it, leave the olds alone, and change powerplants. You'll thank me later.

But gonna use it as a cruiser and family skier, leave it be, but know it's limitations.

Ray

« **Reply #13 on:** January 24, 2009, 07:38:40 AM »

this is why the lord created the 460 ford

« **Reply #14 on:** January 24, 2009, 08:36:16 AM »

They don't run out of oil all at once, you can see the pressure drop slowly (at least that's how it works in my boat). I imagine my boat has over 600 hours on it but still keeps more than 60lbs of pressure. After a mile or so of WFO it will slowly drop to 40lbs. If I don't let off for 5-10 seconds it will drop to 20 much faster. Just keep and eye on your instruments, run it til it dies, and have fun now.

But if you do ventilate the pan with a southbound rod, I do have a big oil pan that is new and taking up space

« **Reply #15 on:** January 24, 2009, 03:31:59 PM »

Thanks for all the repies, it's very apparent I have lot to learn. Just checked my records for the shop, the motor only took 7 qts, so thanks for the detailed advice.

Can't wait for summer..

« **Reply #16 on:** January 24, 2009, 05:26:39 PM »

Quote from: just squirtin on January 24, 2009, 07:38:40 AM

this is why the lord created the 460 ford

you mean the chevy 454

« **Reply #17 on:** January 26, 2009, 05:29:51 PM »

Quote from: JWBOYER21 on January 24, 2009, 05:26:39 PM

you mean the chevy 454

I'm sure he was correct

« **Reply #18 on:** January 26, 2009, 05:32:57 PM »

And, Welcome!! I say unless you have more money than time, fix the tach, keep the RPM's down, and run it. MSD will force you stay honest, but if you dont get the "Need For Speed"

You don't need it.

Bayon Dude

Managing Expectations

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