SoCal Jet Boats

Classifieds => WTB => Topic started by: Luckie Stiff on December 21, 2009, 08:52:02 PM

Title: WTB: Turn Fin
Post by: Luckie Stiff on December 21, 2009, 08:52:02 PM
Looking for a bronze turn fin for the Hallett. Anybody?
Title: Re: WTB: Turn Fin
Post by: Just Electric on December 21, 2009, 09:11:02 PM
drop thru or bottom hull bolt up kind
Title: Re: WTB: Turn Fin
Post by: GT Jets on December 21, 2009, 09:14:03 PM
Knife blade or cleaver?  ;)

GT
Title: Re: WTB: Turn Fin
Post by: 76 Bonneville on December 21, 2009, 09:29:48 PM
glenwoodmarine.com
Title: Re: WTB: Turn Fin
Post by: GT Jets on December 21, 2009, 09:56:58 PM
glenwoodmarine.com

X2  page 54  ;)
Title: Re: WTB: Turn Fin
Post by: Luckie Stiff on December 21, 2009, 09:57:10 PM
I had no idea there were options, I'm going to say I want drop through, knife edge style. Thanks fellas.
Title: Re: WTB: Turn Fin
Post by: Luckie Stiff on December 21, 2009, 09:57:48 PM
glenwoodmarine.com

Yeah, if I had the $$$ for that I'd buy one, but I'm a cheap bastard, and I'm broke so used is my friend.
Title: Re: WTB: Turn Fin
Post by: pw_Tony on December 21, 2009, 10:04:56 PM
I got one, more of a shark fin style. Lemme dig it out for pics tomorrow.... I dunno how much they're worth, 100 bucks?
Title: Re: WTB: Turn Fin
Post by: Luckie Stiff on December 21, 2009, 10:14:40 PM
I got one, more of a shark fin style. Lemme dig it out for pics tomorrow.... I dunno how much they're worth, 100 bucks?

Ouch! Pdub, shoot me some pics, thanks!
Title: Re: WTB: Turn Fin
Post by: 429heads on December 21, 2009, 10:15:44 PM
 I have two sets here  in Riverside and on set in Fortmohave will
 post some pictures to
Title: Re: WTB: Turn Fin
Post by: pw_Tony on December 21, 2009, 10:16:06 PM
Ouch! Pdub, shoot me some pics, thanks!

Will do tomorrow
Title: Re: WTB: Turn Fin
Post by: Just Electric on December 21, 2009, 10:29:33 PM
sorry for the sideways pics they were taken with my cell
Title: Re: WTB: Turn Fin
Post by: 429heads on December 22, 2009, 03:25:59 PM
 here are one set that I have here in Riverside have more in Fortmohave AZ
Title: Re: WTB: Turn Fin
Post by: 429heads on December 22, 2009, 03:29:44 PM
 for got to load the pictures
Title: Re: WTB: Turn Fin
Post by: Luckie Stiff on December 23, 2009, 11:21:36 AM
429-
I like those, what do you want for the whole kit and kaboodle?
Title: Re: WTB: Turn Fin
Post by: 76NORDIC on December 23, 2009, 11:38:30 AM
Skip with those fins, I take it you would have to modify your trailer ??? Also I tkae it that the fin on the nozzle of the PD would be leagle ??? 
Title: Re: WTB: Turn Fin
Post by: Luckie Stiff on December 23, 2009, 11:44:45 AM
Yes on both counts. These fins aren't required per the rules, but they help out a bunch. The PD fin is legal per the rules.
Title: Re: WTB: Turn Fin
Post by: 76NORDIC on December 23, 2009, 11:48:17 AM
I guess I need to figure out how to bolt one on ???  Calling Place would probably be a good start :screwy:
Title: Re: WTB: Turn Fin
Post by: Nordie on December 23, 2009, 11:54:50 AM
If I'm not mistaken mark the rules state the fin on the nozzle whether its a place diverter or not needs to be 4" below the lowest point of the boat....and the flat surface needs to have 16 inches of surface area...also when running a diverter you must have a diverter stop....I am starting to take some notes
Title: Re: WTB: Turn Fin
Post by: Luckie Stiff on December 23, 2009, 11:55:12 AM
It's pretty easy Nancy, you need to change the pin on the bottom of the nozzle, remove the two bolts that seem like they're not doing anything and bolt your fin up.
Title: Re: WTB: Turn Fin
Post by: Luckie Stiff on December 23, 2009, 11:55:46 AM
If I'm not mistaken mark the rules state the fin on the nozzle whether its a place diverter or not needs to be 4" below the lowest point of the boat....and the flat surface needs to have 16 inches of surface area...also when running a diverter you must have a diverter stop....I am starting to take some notes

You're not mistaken poopsie  :-*
Title: Re: WTB: Turn Fin
Post by: beerjet on December 23, 2009, 07:07:20 PM
The nozzle fin is redundant .
The nozzle fin BARELY and I mean BARELY clear the bottom of a ride plate even with a droop.
At least that was the case with my boat.
 :screwy:

-beerjet-
Title: Re: WTB: Turn Fin
Post by: Brad @ SCJB on December 23, 2009, 07:23:32 PM
The nozzle fin is redundant .
The nozzle fin BARELY and I mean BARELY clear the bottom of a ride plate even with a droop.
At least that was the case with my boat.
 :screwy:

-beerjet-

this is true...

Must be equipped with a turning rudder that extends at least four (4) inches below the lowest point of the jet nozzle and have a minimum surface area of sixteen (16) inches.

and to clarify...its not to the bottom of the boat, its to the bottom of the jet nozzle.
Title: Re: WTB: Turn Fin
Post by: beerjet on December 23, 2009, 07:56:46 PM

and to clarify...its not to the bottom of the boat, its to the bottom of the jet nozzle.
In your opinion Brad , does that make any sense ?

-beerjet-
Title: Re: WTB: Turn Fin
Post by: Brad @ SCJB on December 23, 2009, 08:00:19 PM
In your opinion Brad , does that make any sense ?

-beerjet-

considering who wrote that rule, no.
Title: Re: WTB: Turn Fin
Post by: 76NORDIC on December 23, 2009, 08:05:03 PM
Ya guys i know it's not worth a rats ass, hell my Seloc Marine manual says the the nozzel rudders are worthless. But with a bigass PD rudder, I am thinking that I will be OK ::)
Title: Re: WTB: Turn Fin
Post by: Brad @ SCJB on December 23, 2009, 08:09:18 PM
they are useful. but the way the rule is written, it allows us to cut them down to nothing to where they are useless.

i got a plate of aluminum in my garage i traced out a bigger rudder to experiment with. yeah, it might lose a mph or two, but i might pick it up in the turns. i need to get other things changed first before i start tinkering around with that though. but for now, i got a piece of metal hanging off the back of my pump that's as useful as a trunk spoiler on a front wheel drive car. it looks cool, but it dont do dick.
Title: Re: WTB: Turn Fin
Post by: beerjet on December 23, 2009, 08:12:55 PM
How much MPH did Toby lose with his set-up ?

-beerjet-
Title: Re: WTB: Turn Fin
Post by: Brad @ SCJB on December 23, 2009, 08:14:33 PM
How much MPH did Toby lose with his set-up ?

-beerjet-

considering he broke the class lap record in Burley by a landslide with that setup entitling him to the mink award, i'd say he didnt loose any.
Title: Re: WTB: Turn Fin
Post by: GT Jets on December 23, 2009, 08:21:22 PM
The best way to get a jet to turn is to figure out what pin angle it like to be at...

Sort of like caster and camber in a circle car....

You can make a jetboat turn like it is tied to a post, but it takes some experimenting.

With a fixed nozzle, it is nearly impossible to get the setup right. I have a berkeley Droop that has been heavily modified to accept different bushings for different pin angles,  I really have not had a opportunity to dick with it much and the guy I got it from has been gone for 10 years or better.  :thumbdown:

I always wanted to build a nozzle that could accept a steering action input and be adjustable on the fly, but never had the time.

Think of it like trying to make an aggressive turn with the nozzle all the way up, versus all the way down, it will bury the ass if all the way up and bowsteer like a MOFO if all the way down..., there is a balance, but it is tuff to find and will vary at different tracks at different speeds...

I believe the rule is there in case of an engine shut down, it may help steer the powerless craft out of harms way, I betting it wont, but I think that is why the rule exists

GT
Title: Re: WTB: Turn Fin
Post by: beerjet on December 23, 2009, 08:23:25 PM
:thumbup:

Didnt Terry mumble something about the APBA eyballing that set-up .
In a good way that is .

-beerjet-
Title: Re: WTB: Turn Fin
Post by: 76NORDIC on December 23, 2009, 08:27:43 PM
they are useful. but the way the rule is written, it allows us to cut them down to nothing to where they are useless.

i got a plate of aluminum in my garage i traced out a bigger rudder to experiment with. yeah, it might lose a mph or two, but i might pick it up in the turns. i need to get other things changed first before i start tinkering around with that though. but for now, i got a piece of metal hanging off the back of my pump that's as useful as a trunk spoiler on a front wheel drive car. it looks cool, but it dont do dick.
Thats funny Brad and thats my thought, like I said. But for me to run in NJ and have some fun, thats all I am looking for, to be able to pass the rule test. To get out there and get my feet wet, (not the getting thrown out type)  LOL   Thanks also GT, but as you might be able to tell I am not going for the balls out deal yet ;)
Title: Re: WTB: Turn Fin
Post by: Brad @ SCJB on December 23, 2009, 08:33:24 PM
:thumbup:

Didnt Terry mumble something about the APBA eyballing that set-up .
In a good way that is .

-beerjet-

yes and no. i dont think anything ever became of it though. one of the things that were pointed out and addressed was the use of the 'fence post' U-Bolts to hold the rudder on. He changed this to billet clamps for long beach. Toby never ran this boat again after long beach.

here is pictures of the setup for those following....

(https://www.socaljetboats.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4262.0;attach=16433;image)

(https://www.socaljetboats.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4262.0;attach=16435;image)

(https://www.socaljetboats.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4262.0;attach=16439;image)

In my opinion this setup was very successful. The downside was when turning, the roost consumed the next 2 outside lanes behind him.

(https://www.socaljetboats.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spect8foto.com%2F2008%2520LB%2520Sprint%2520Nats%2FIMG_0511.jpg&hash=8e672738b4dd7f8cdf5992f838cd4abc4b6733c9)

(https://www.socaljetboats.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spect8foto.com%2F2008%2520LB%2520Sprint%2520Nats%2FHB0D5467.jpg&hash=387a5974a3e0327b96b0a81350d8224a4f81cc71)
Title: Re: WTB: Turn Fin
Post by: 76NORDIC on December 23, 2009, 08:37:14 PM
Ya so much for 4 to 5 feet roost :sly:
Title: Re: WTB: Turn Fin
Post by: pw_Tony on December 23, 2009, 08:53:54 PM
I always wondered with Toby's boat, would it defeat the point of having the nozzle turn with the rudder? It would help alot with the roost, but you guys know more about hydrodynamics than I do lol
Title: Re: WTB: Turn Fin
Post by: beerjet on December 23, 2009, 09:04:00 PM
EEEEEveryones roost did that (to a certain degree) in the turns .
That was a fixed nozzle too.
I remember Finneys boat was pretty go about that as well but I think his had more to do with how much plate David was putting in it .
Toby's was excessive.
All the more reason to stay out in front  ;D

-beerjet-
Title: Re: WTB: Turn Fin
Post by: Brad @ SCJB on December 23, 2009, 09:07:42 PM
the idea behind tobys setup was to keep the thrust always pushing the boat forward. with the nozzle turning, it pushes the back end sideways in the turn.

at a later date....i am going to be playing with the idea of running a rudder his size, but with a turning nozzle.

trial and error....its just testing out what works and what doesnt.  ;)
Title: Re: WTB: Turn Fin
Post by: beerjet on December 23, 2009, 09:09:03 PM
I always wondered with Toby's boat, would it defeat the point of having the nozzle turn with the rudder? It would help alot with the roost, but you guys know more about hydrodynamics than I do lol
I think it would be more of an engineering hassle to get them both to turn (via the same steering cable) at the same time and at the same degree.
I think in that case the nozzle might be limiting the degree the rudder can turn or over "extending" the nozzle in the hand .
Please tell me if I'm confusing anyone ....

-beerjet-
Title: Re: WTB: Turn Fin
Post by: 76NORDIC on December 23, 2009, 09:12:03 PM
Nope ::) But you all are straying slightly from what I was asking about :sly:
Title: Re: WTB: Turn Fin
Post by: Brad @ SCJB on December 23, 2009, 09:40:11 PM
I think it would be more of an engineering hassle to get them both to turn (via the same steering cable) at the same time and at the same degree.
I think in that case the nozzle might be limiting the degree the rudder can turn or over "extending" the nozzle in the hand .
Please tell me if I'm confusing anyone ....

-beerjet-

 :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: youre thinking WAAAAY to hard there buddy.  ;D

what does the rudder do on a normal setup? it turns with the nozzle. why add a whole contraption (and more points of failure) when trying to reinvent the wheel. just put a bigger rudder on the nozzle
Title: Re: WTB: Turn Fin
Post by: GT Jets on December 23, 2009, 09:45:32 PM
:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: youre thinking WAAAAY to hard there buddy.  ;D

what does the rudder do on a normal setup? it turns with the nozzle. why add a whole contraption (and more points of failure) when trying to reinvent the wheel. just put a bigger rudder on the nozzle

Make the nozzle the rudder....See I can do it too.. ;D  There is a droop setup out there made by Eagle Racing by a gent named Chrunyk...

They could build you what you need..He is the one that built those big tapered stove pipe looking dealio's on the rock dodgers...

I will see if I can dig up some pics... If the nozzle was the actual rudder, there is one less point of failure.  :thumbup:

Title: Re: WTB: Turn Fin
Post by: GT Jets on December 23, 2009, 09:49:24 PM
I think you need to expand on this badboy... :screwy:

Too many moving parts...... :thumbdown:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xcjy6bidOCc
Title: Re: WTB: Turn Fin
Post by: Brad @ SCJB on December 23, 2009, 10:00:47 PM
a place diverter does the exact same thing....whats the point? am i missing something?  ???
Title: Re: WTB: Turn Fin
Post by: pw_Tony on December 23, 2009, 10:08:36 PM
a place diverter does the exact same thing....whats the point? am i missing something?  ???

Nah..... it's power steering for us lazy ass's  O0
Title: Re: WTB: Turn Fin
Post by: GT Jets on December 23, 2009, 10:12:16 PM
a place diverter does the exact same thing....whats the point? am i missing something?  ???

That intellijet was posted strictly for entertainment purposes;D Still looking for the Chrunyk deal  :-\

Don't get so riled up....jeeez :)
Title: Re: WTB: Turn Fin
Post by: enginedoctor on December 23, 2009, 10:12:42 PM
Whats wrong with incorporating a fin to the nozzle ???   But this is not my field :sly:
Title: Re: WTB: Turn Fin
Post by: beerjet on December 23, 2009, 10:20:32 PM
The only problem I've seen is the amount of force being applied to the pin locations.
When you start to force the outter most part of a pump, you will find a weak point.
Solution-Would be put the rudder in a stronger location therefore allowing you to use a much larger, more functional rudder.
Think about how big the rudder attached to a nozzle would have to be, to be as affective as an independent rudder.
Imagine the load that is going to be put on it when your haulin ass through a turn and you really start to push the ass end of the boat sideways.

Mind you , this is just my brain spring boarding off a 30 year old idea.

-beerjet-
Title: Re: WTB: Turn Fin
Post by: 76 Bonneville on December 23, 2009, 10:27:47 PM
I'm with Omar, you cant bolt to that cast aluminum nozzle with out some major redesign or a stronger nozzle material.
Stanless nozzle and nozzle adaptor for the steering pins?
Title: Re: WTB: Turn Fin
Post by: GT Jets on December 23, 2009, 10:32:03 PM
I can't seem to find the one I am looking for, but here's a teaser....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CZLjzU-oX4

These are bulletproof... :thumbup:

GT
Title: Re: WTB: Turn Fin
Post by: 76NORDIC on December 24, 2009, 11:11:59 AM
So does anyone have a rudder for the nozzel for sale ??? ???
Title: Re: WTB: Turn Fin
Post by: Brad @ SCJB on December 24, 2009, 11:25:21 AM
So does anyone have a rudder for the nozzel for sale ??? ???

which nozzle?
Title: Re: WTB: Turn Fin
Post by: pw_Tony on December 24, 2009, 11:28:00 AM
I'm with Omar, you cant bolt to that cast aluminum nozzle with out some major redesign or a stronger nozzle material.
Stanless nozzle and nozzle adaptor for the steering pins?

I like the way that sounds
Title: Re: WTB: Turn Fin
Post by: 76NORDIC on December 24, 2009, 11:41:44 AM
I have a PD nozzel on a JC pump
Title: Re: WTB: Turn Fin
Post by: beerjet on December 24, 2009, 08:31:47 PM
I have a PD nozzel on a JC pump
Tom does .....

-beerjet-
Title: Re: WTB: Turn Fin
Post by: IRRebel on December 24, 2009, 10:01:46 PM
which nozzle?

X2,  got a rudder from the nozzle from the Moo's JE and one from the Yellow Subs JC,

Ray
Title: Re: WTB: Turn Fin
Post by: 76NORDIC on December 24, 2009, 10:24:02 PM
Did ya miss it Ray, I did say a PD nozzel on a JC pump LOL   How ya doing bud ???
Title: Re: WTB: Turn Fin
Post by: Brad @ SCJB on December 25, 2009, 12:02:01 AM
I got one that's cut down
Title: Re: WTB: Turn Fin
Post by: IRRebel on December 26, 2009, 03:39:26 AM
Did ya miss it Ray, I did say a PD nozzel on a JC pump LOL   How ya doing bud ???

Yeah I did bro! Mine's not for the PD nozzle, sorry  :-[

Ray
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