WTB: Turn Fin

« **Reply #25 on:** December 23, 2009, 08:05:03 PM »

Ya guys i know it's not worth a rats ass, hell my Seloc Marine manual says the the nozzel rudders are worthless. But with a bigass PD rudder, I am thinking that I will be OK

« **Reply #26 on:** December 23, 2009, 08:09:18 PM »

they are useful. but the way the rule is written, it allows us to cut them down to nothing to where they are useless.

i got a plate of aluminum in my garage i traced out a bigger rudder to experiment with. yeah, it might lose a mph or two, but i might pick it up in the turns. i need to get other things changed first before i start tinkering around with that though. but for now, i got a piece of metal hanging off the back of my pump that's as useful as a trunk spoiler on a front wheel drive car. it looks cool, but it dont do dick.

« **Reply #27 on:** December 23, 2009, 08:12:55 PM »

How much MPH did Toby lose with his set-up ?

-beerjet-

« **Reply #28 on:** December 23, 2009, 08:14:33 PM »

Quote from: beerjet on December 23, 2009, 08:12:55 PM

How much MPH did Toby lose with his set-up ?

-beerjet-

considering he broke the class lap record in Burley by a landslide with that setup entitling him to the mink award, i'd say he didnt loose any.

« **Reply #29 on:** December 23, 2009, 08:21:22 PM »

The best way to get a jet to turn is to figure out what pin angle it like to be at...

Sort of like caster and camber in a circle car....

You can make a jetboat turn like it is tied to a post, but it takes some experimenting.

With a fixed nozzle, it is nearly impossible to get the setup right. I have a berkeley Droop that has been heavily modified to accept different bushings for different pin angles, I really have not had a opportunity to dick with it much and the guy I got it from has been gone for 10 years or better.

I always wanted to build a nozzle that could accept a steering action input and be adjustable on the fly, but never had the time.

Think of it like trying to make an aggressive turn with the nozzle all the way up, versus all the way down, it will bury the ass if all the way up and bowsteer like a MOFO if all the way down..., there is a balance, but it is tuff to find and will vary at different tracks at different speeds...

I believe the rule is there in case of an engine shut down, it may help steer the powerless craft out of harms way, I betting it wont, but I think that is why the rule exists

GT

« **Reply #30 on:** December 23, 2009, 08:23:25 PM »

Didnt Terry mumble something about the APBA eyballing that set-up .
In a good way that is .

-beerjet-

« **Reply #31 on:** December 23, 2009, 08:27:43 PM »

Quote from: Brad @ SoCalJetBoats.com on December 23, 2009, 08:09:18 PM

they are useful. but the way the rule is written, it allows us to cut them down to nothing to where they are useless.

i got a plate of aluminum in my garage i traced out a bigger rudder to experiment with. yeah, it might lose a mph or two, but i might pick it up in the turns. i need to get other things changed first before i start tinkering around with that though. but for now, i got a piece of metal hanging off the back of my pump that's as useful as a trunk spoiler on a front wheel drive car. it looks cool, but it dont do dick.

Thats funny Brad and thats my thought, like I said. But for me to run in NJ and have some fun, thats all I am looking for, to be able to pass the rule test. To get out there and get my feet wet, (not the getting thrown out type) LOL Thanks also GT, but as you might be able to tell I am not going for the balls out deal yet

« **Reply #32 on:** December 23, 2009, 08:33:24 PM »

Quote from: beerjet on December 23, 2009, 08:23:25 PM

Didnt Terry mumble something about the APBA eyballing that set-up .
In a good way that is .

-beerjet-

yes and no. i dont think anything ever became of it though. one of the things that were pointed out and addressed was the use of the 'fence post' U-Bolts to hold the rudder on. He changed this to billet clamps for long beach. Toby never ran this boat again after long beach.

here is pictures of the setup for those following....

In my opinion this setup was very successful. The downside was when turning, the roost consumed the next 2 outside lanes behind him.

« **Reply #33 on:** December 23, 2009, 08:37:14 PM »

Ya so much for 4 to 5 feet roost

« **Reply #34 on:** December 23, 2009, 08:53:54 PM »

I always wondered with Toby's boat, would it defeat the point of having the nozzle turn with the rudder? It would help alot with the roost, but you guys know more about hydrodynamics than I do lol

« **Reply #35 on:** December 23, 2009, 09:04:00 PM »

EEEEEveryones roost did that (to a certain degree) in the turns .
That was a fixed nozzle too.
I remember Finneys boat was pretty go about that as well but I think his had more to do with how much plate David was putting in it .
Toby's was excessive.
All the more reason to stay out in front

-beerjet-

« **Reply #36 on:** December 23, 2009, 09:07:42 PM »

the idea behind tobys setup was to keep the thrust always pushing the boat forward. with the nozzle turning, it pushes the back end sideways in the turn.

at a later date....i am going to be playing with the idea of running a rudder his size, but with a turning nozzle.

trial and error....its just testing out what works and what doesnt.

« **Reply #37 on:** December 23, 2009, 09:09:03 PM »

Quote from: pw_Tony on December 23, 2009, 08:53:54 PM

I always wondered with Toby's boat, would it defeat the point of having the nozzle turn with the rudder? It would help alot with the roost, but you guys know more about hydrodynamics than I do lol

I think it would be more of an engineering hassle to get them both to turn (via the same steering cable) at the same time and at the same degree.
I think in that case the nozzle might be limiting the degree the rudder can turn or over "extending" the nozzle in the hand .
Please tell me if I'm confusing anyone ....

-beerjet-

« **Reply #38 on:** December 23, 2009, 09:12:03 PM »

Nope

But you all are straying slightly from what I was asking about

« **Reply #39 on:** December 23, 2009, 09:40:11 PM »

Quote from: beerjet on December 23, 2009, 09:09:03 PM

I think it would be more of an engineering hassle to get them both to turn (via the same steering cable) at the same time and at the same degree.
I think in that case the nozzle might be limiting the degree the rudder can turn or over "extending" the nozzle in the hand .
Please tell me if I'm confusing anyone ....

-beerjet-

youre thinking WAAAAY to hard there buddy.

what does the rudder do on a normal setup? it turns with the nozzle. why add a whole contraption (and more points of failure) when trying to reinvent the wheel. just put a bigger rudder on the nozzle

« **Reply #40 on:** December 23, 2009, 09:45:32 PM »

Quote from: Brad @ SoCalJetBoats.com on December 23, 2009, 09:40:11 PM

youre thinking WAAAAY to hard there buddy.

what does the rudder do on a normal setup? it turns with the nozzle. why add a whole contraption (and more points of failure) when trying to reinvent the wheel. just put a bigger rudder on the nozzle

Make the nozzle the rudder....See I can do it too..

There is a droop setup out there made by Eagle Racing by a gent named Chrunyk...

They could build you what you need..He is the one that built those big tapered stove pipe looking dealio's on the rock dodgers...

I will see if I can dig up some pics... If the nozzle was the actual rudder, there is one less point of failure.

« **Reply #41 on:** December 23, 2009, 09:49:24 PM »

I think you need to expand on this badboy...

Too many moving parts......

« **Reply #42 on:** December 23, 2009, 10:00:47 PM »

a place diverter does the exact same thing....whats the point? am i missing something?

« **Reply #43 on:** December 23, 2009, 10:08:36 PM »

Quote from: Brad @ SoCalJetBoats.com on December 23, 2009, 10:00:47 PM

a place diverter does the exact same thing....whats the point? am i missing something?

Nah..... it's power steering for us lazy ass's

« **Reply #44 on:** December 23, 2009, 10:12:16 PM »

Quote from: Brad @ SoCalJetBoats.com on December 23, 2009, 10:00:47 PM

a place diverter does the exact same thing....whats the point? am i missing something?

That intellijet was posted strictly for entertainment purposes;D Still looking for the Chrunyk deal $:-\$

Don't get so riled up....jeeez

« **Reply #45 on:** December 23, 2009, 10:12:42 PM »

Whats wrong with incorporating a fin to the nozzle

But this is not my field

« **Reply #46 on:** December 23, 2009, 10:20:32 PM »

The only problem I've seen is the amount of force being applied to the pin locations.
When you start to force the outter most part of a pump, you will find a weak point.
Solution-Would be put the rudder in a stronger location therefore allowing you to use a much larger, more functional rudder.
Think about how big the rudder attached to a nozzle would have to be, to be as affective as an independent rudder.
Imagine the load that is going to be put on it when your haulin ass through a turn and you really start to push the ass end of the boat sideways.

Mind you , this is just my brain spring boarding off a 30 year old idea.

-beerjet-

« **Reply #47 on:** December 23, 2009, 10:27:47 PM »

I'm with Omar, you cant bolt to that cast aluminum nozzle with out some major redesign or a stronger nozzle material.
Stanless nozzle and nozzle adaptor for the steering pins?

« **Reply #48 on:** December 23, 2009, 10:32:03 PM »

I can't seem to find the one I am looking for, but here's a teaser....

These are bulletproof...

GT

« **Reply #49 on:** December 24, 2009, 11:11:59 AM »

So does anyone have a rudder for the nozzel for sale

76NORDIC

Brad @ SCJB

beerjet

Brad @ SCJB

GT Jets

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Brad @ SCJB

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pw_Tony

beerjet

Brad @ SCJB

beerjet

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Brad @ SCJB

GT Jets

GT Jets

Brad @ SCJB

pw_Tony

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enginedoctor

beerjet

76 Bonneville

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