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Roadrunner

  • Karma: +13/-0
Re: 455 break down from over heating question
« Reply #75 on: August 16, 2014, 11:12:59 PM »
Watch out for the speed traps on the 14 fwy. I used to commute from the valley to Ave G. Even if everyone else is going 90, those cops will find you.


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In God we trust, all others pay cash.

Handi-Crack

  • Karma: +3/-0
Re: 455 break down from over heating question
« Reply #76 on: August 16, 2014, 11:24:25 PM »
Damn I was doin 80 whole way back 14 to 5 to 405 to 118 to 23 to 101 but I wasn't towing the boat left it out there.




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Handi-Crack

  • Karma: +3/-0
Re: 455 break down from over heating question
« Reply #77 on: August 16, 2014, 11:27:27 PM »
Does this look odd to anyone?


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Handi-Crack

  • Karma: +3/-0
Re: 455 break down from over heating question
« Reply #78 on: August 16, 2014, 11:38:35 PM »
This ass well


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SS-201

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 455 break down from over heating question
« Reply #79 on: August 17, 2014, 01:41:27 AM »
I use a oil accumulator on all my engines in case of a break in the oil supply and have a low pressure switch with a big red light to warn me just in case of  a potiental failure.

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MorePower

  • Karma: +20/-0
Re: 455 break down from over heating question
« Reply #80 on: August 17, 2014, 08:50:24 AM »

Does this look odd to anyone?

Negative. Doesn't look off to me... Definitely had a good seal around the water jackets.

The reason I say the motor needs to go into a shop. 1) needs a line hone after those bearings went round and round, 2) with that metal inside the motor now, it needs to get flushed/cleaned. 3) this is what's gonna make or break a long lasting motor.


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Handi-Crack

  • Karma: +3/-0
Re: 455 break down from over heating question
« Reply #81 on: August 17, 2014, 09:27:54 AM »
Damn back to square one wish we hadn't spent that money first time around.

Any places you can suggest to take the block? I'll take the heads to clay smith like you said.

I have the rest of this season as winter to finish it so slow and steady it is. I want to just do the pistons now since it's all open and are roller rockers worth the penny?

Oh and good place to get carpet gonna do that now since it's all apart.


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MorePower

  • Karma: +20/-0
Re: 455 break down from over heating question
« Reply #82 on: August 17, 2014, 10:09:43 AM »
If you're gonna take the heads to clay smith. You will be in great hands. He will take care of you for the entire build process. I'm glad you aren't gonna rush it. You will be satisfied in the long run.


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Chad krieger

  • Karma: +7/-0
Re: 455 break down from over heating question
« Reply #83 on: August 17, 2014, 10:33:53 AM »
Yes another olds guy.


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mobboss

  • Karma: +15/-0
Re: 455 break down from over heating question
« Reply #84 on: August 17, 2014, 11:16:02 AM »
Roller rocker are only forth it if you do everything else


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GT Jets

  • Karma: +192/-0
Re: 455 break down from over heating question
« Reply #85 on: August 17, 2014, 11:57:34 AM »
Roller rocker are only forth it if you do everything else


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Roller rockers are easier on the valve stem and improve valve train geometry... Roller "tipped" rockers are only worth it if you don't do everything else... LOL

There are roller rockers, then there are wannabe roller tipped steelies...

GT
  • Boat #1: 1992 Carrera 20.5 Elite (I/O bitches)
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If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

Time to man up and yank it John!  :banghead:
Ray

mobboss

  • Karma: +15/-0
Re: 455 break down from over heating question
« Reply #86 on: August 17, 2014, 12:10:12 PM »
Very true!


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Bunger

  • Karma: +6/-0
Re: 455 break down from over heating question
« Reply #87 on: August 18, 2014, 05:04:47 AM »
X2 on clay smith. George is an awesome guy. Knows alotttt about olds motors and jet boats. Go to him for all the machine work and you wont be disappointed.


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Handi-Crack

  • Karma: +3/-0
Re: 455 break down from over heating question
« Reply #88 on: August 18, 2014, 01:10:17 PM »
What's he like cost wise?


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MorePower

  • Karma: +20/-0
Re: 455 break down from over heating question
« Reply #89 on: August 18, 2014, 01:22:09 PM »
All depends what you end up needing. Good machine work isn't cheap and cheap machine work isn't good. Your best bet, grab the block, crank, cam and heads and head over there and see what he says


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GeneralLee

  • Karma: +10/-0
Re: 455 break down from over heating question
« Reply #90 on: August 20, 2014, 12:17:12 AM »
Definitely the builders fault. Shame he's not jumping up and taking care of this. I'd say you should blast him on here. You and me know who he is but might wanna warn other fellow members. He only cost me 100 bucks in gas money and about 6hrs of time...your call dude.

Stupid move...shouldn't have done that!
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Handi-Crack

  • Karma: +3/-0
Re: 455 break down from over heating question
« Reply #91 on: August 20, 2014, 05:32:13 PM »
So I can take it this was not caused by over heating? This was caused by bad machining or improper installation?

This motor ran for less than an hour I might even bet 30


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Maker

  • Karma: +3/-0
Re: 455 break down from over heating question
« Reply #92 on: August 20, 2014, 05:44:29 PM »
I would have to say it's the assemblers fault  for  not measuring tolerances , not caring tolerances are out of spec or just a sloppy assembly

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GeneralLee

  • Karma: +10/-0
Re: 455 break down from over heating question
« Reply #93 on: August 20, 2014, 06:13:51 PM »
So I can take it this was not caused by over heating? This was caused by bad machining or improper installation?

This motor ran for less than an hour I might even bet 30

Put him on blast brother!!! Fellow members need to know.

I'll add to your story.

Stupid move...shouldn't have done that!
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RushinEliminator17

  • Karma: +8/-0
Re: 455 break down from over heating question
« Reply #94 on: August 20, 2014, 08:37:09 PM »
This is the one and only time I will post on this topic and after that you will not hear a single word, I do not need to defend myself.

Let me start off by saying, that yes, it does suck that Ken’s motor went south, but before you begin passing judgement on me the builder (Don’t need anyone to blast me GENERAL LEE - as a matter of fact you can scroll to the bottom of this post as I have addressed you)

You have to have ALL the facts in line.

First off, Ken you did not pay me $3800 for the motor to be rebuilt. The $3800 was the cost of removal of the engine and engine tear down for inspection, and the patch adams rebuild that you said is all you could afford. Cost was for heads that were poured and ported with new springs and retainers as well as  oiling mods, intake manifold, scoop, high capacity oil pan, rebuild of the carburetor (which I told you was too small especially without proper tuning), oil re-locator, MSD coil, 10.2mm Taylor spark plug wires, all NEW stainless steel  fasteners, new head bolts, clean up engine wiring mess, etc. You were on a budget and YOU decided that you did not have the additional funds to pay for machine work. My recommendation was to over bore the block, and install new pistons as well as resize the existing connecting rods with new botls. YOUR BUDGET could not afford block machine work, new pistons, and resizing the rods and new bolts, which would have added an additional $1000+ to the bill. The good news is I have a lot of this correspondence in text messages as I always kept you informed throughout the entire build.
Instead of proper machine work (which I recommended), block was hot tanked, new cam bearings were installed, and standard cylinder bores were honed. Crank was turned 20/20, new main/rod bearings were installed, new piston rings, cam, timing chain, and new high flow oil pump.

Additionally, I insisted on numerous occasions to go out with you free of charge and tune your motor and each and every time you declined.

Throughout this process, I indicated that your gauges were reading improperly and that you needed to re-do the Mickey mouse wiring (first time I have ever seen a fuel pump grounded to a tach gauge) in which you once again indicated that you did not have the money. Then I indicated that your single bow mount fiberglass tank was delaminated and could be detrimental to the motor, that you would need to replace the tank, you again indicated NO MONEY. Additionally, I told you that you MUST do an oil change, especially after the motor had undergone the break in process, and you clearly didn’t have the funds to do the $60 oil change yourself. You could not follow a simple direction. The fram oil filter that I mounted is clearly visible in all of your break down photos.

How do you expect me to warranty internal engine items that were never machined or replaced??

Prior to you coming to pick up the boat, the cam was broken in for at least a half an hour and it was running like a champ. I have the video which I sent you to prove it. When you came the next time with your battery selector switch problem, we also ran the boat for at least a half an hour to re-charge the batteries. Then when we both went to the lake that Saturday, you spent the entire day on the lake, blasting around all over (picture below look familiar). We will count that for at least four hours, in which we spent half hour at the dock when I jumped your boat, because again you were reluctant to change the original 35 amp alternator which did not have the capacity to charge your dual batteries.

The preceding weekend you took the boat out in the morning, and only notified me of any problems at 2:30 PM. We will count 3 running engine hours for that outing. So right here, we have at least 8 hours...all on the original start up oil!!!

 At that time you stated that the motor had lost oil pressure. You then said that you went and “putted it around” because you thought that your gauges were mis reading as you also noticed that the fuel gauge was not reading either. I asked you a series of questions relating to temperature, sounds, etc, in which I did not hear an answer back until almost 3 hours later when you sent me a video of the motor knocking. You indicated that you “limped” the boat back to the dock with the motor running in foul condition. I immediately came over to your house and assessed the situation. A quick over view of the motor showed evidence of a major overheat... Burnt exhaust ports, blued head bolts, collapsed exhaust hose...  This led me to open the jet clean out where we found tangled up clumps of lake grass and fishing line which tied in with when you were saying that the boat would not rev and seemed stressed (no propulsion = no cooling water).
So this is what I concluded: oil got extra hot, got thinned out, oil pressure vanished, and damaged the bearings and the non- resized connecting rods did not help. When I was at your house, you understood this, but decided that at 3AM (when you to started texting me) to go through the denial phase, and began researching improper plumbing, when that clearly is not the issue. You offered up to me why my plumbing was wrong with the most ludicrous explanations. Sometimes we have to learn from our own mistakes, and I hope that it works out for you and that your motor comes together nicely with your own hands, Just a simple tip: don’t cheap out on yourself this time and do the correct machine work - you will soon see, it’s not as easy as it all looks!. I am even willing to give you another crank and some extra connecting rods free of charge as I know that you will need them.

Also just a friendly note: More Power is very knowledgable and knows his shit, wanna know why? because I tutored him about Olds 455 all the while that he was building his motor.
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RushinEliminator17

  • Karma: +8/-0
Re: 455 break down from over heating question
« Reply #95 on: August 20, 2014, 08:38:18 PM »

On to the next topic...

Hey General Lee, or Bozo was your name, right? ...I don’t remember. You are an instigator  (you may need to google that). You don’t know the first thing about building an engine, so your input about what the issue is means nothing.
I recall the time you are referring to as it is the only interaction I have ever had with you. I told to you to come pick up your steering cable on a Saturday before 12. You texted me that you were in Downey at 3PM. I was no longer at the shop and honestly had enough of your shenanigans as prior in the week you were stroking me about my Jacuzzi WJ diverter, Which only ended with “my wife won’t let me”. I also heard through the grape-vine (since the jet boat community is so small) that I was not the only one that you stroked and promising to buy their parts and fell through.

There, I did the work for you, no need to add to the story, but please explain to me one thing. How do you get a waste of $100 fuel when you live in Temecula and my shop is in Sylmar and Google maps says that we are 105 miles door to door and you only ended up in Downey. Not to mention only 1h45min drive time one way...

I smell some embellishment...

You should remove the rest of the words from your signature and just leave “stupid”, it would be a perfect signature for you... just saying...and a lot of people wouldn’t have to be confused.
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RushinEliminator17

  • Karma: +8/-0
Re: 455 break down from over heating question
« Reply #96 on: August 20, 2014, 08:44:04 PM »
 


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GT Jets

  • Karma: +192/-0
Re: 455 break down from over heating question
« Reply #97 on: August 20, 2014, 09:11:32 PM »
This is the one and only time I will post on this topic and after that you will not hear a single word, I do not need to defend myself.

Let me start off by saying, that yes, it does suck that Ken’s motor went south, but before you begin passing judgement on me the builder (Don’t need anyone to blast me GENERAL LEE - as a matter of fact you can scroll to the bottom of this post as I have addressed you)

You have to have ALL the facts in line.

First off, Ken you did not pay me $3800 for the motor to be rebuilt. The $3800 was the cost of removal of the engine and engine tear down for inspection, and the patch adams rebuild that you said is all you could afford. Cost was for heads that were poured and ported with new springs and retainers as well as  oiling mods, intake manifold, scoop, high capacity oil pan, rebuild of the carburetor (which I told you was too small especially without proper tuning), oil re-locator, MSD coil, 10.2mm Taylor spark plug wires, all NEW stainless steel  fasteners, new head bolts, clean up engine wiring mess, etc. You were on a budget and YOU decided that you did not have the additional funds to pay for machine work. My recommendation was to over bore the block, and install new pistons as well as resize the existing connecting rods with new botls. YOUR BUDGET could not afford block machine work, new pistons, and resizing the rods and new bolts, which would have added an additional $1000+ to the bill. The good news is I have a lot of this correspondence in text messages as I always kept you informed throughout the entire build.
Instead of proper machine work (which I recommended), block was hot tanked, new cam bearings were installed, and standard cylinder bores were honed. Crank was turned 20/20, new main/rod bearings were installed, new piston rings, cam, timing chain, and new high flow oil pump.

Additionally, I insisted on numerous occasions to go out with you free of charge and tune your motor and each and every time you declined.

Throughout this process, I indicated that your gauges were reading improperly and that you needed to re-do the Mickey mouse wiring (first time I have ever seen a fuel pump grounded to a tach gauge) in which you once again indicated that you did not have the money. Then I indicated that your single bow mount fiberglass tank was delaminated and could be detrimental to the motor, that you would need to replace the tank, you again indicated NO MONEY. Additionally, I told you that you MUST do an oil change, especially after the motor had undergone the break in process, and you clearly didn’t have the funds to do the $60 oil change yourself. You could not follow a simple direction. The fram oil filter that I mounted is clearly visible in all of your break down photos.

How do you expect me to warranty internal engine items that were never machined or replaced??

Prior to you coming to pick up the boat, the cam was broken in for at least a half an hour and it was running like a champ. I have the video which I sent you to prove it. When you came the next time with your battery selector switch problem, we also ran the boat for at least a half an hour to re-charge the batteries. Then when we both went to the lake that Saturday, you spent the entire day on the lake, blasting around all over (picture below look familiar). We will count that for at least four hours, in which we spent half hour at the dock when I jumped your boat, because again you were reluctant to change the original 35 amp alternator which did not have the capacity to charge your dual batteries.

The preceding weekend you took the boat out in the morning, and only notified me of any problems at 2:30 PM. We will count 3 running engine hours for that outing. So right here, we have at least 8 hours...all on the original start up oil!!!

 At that time you stated that the motor had lost oil pressure. You then said that you went and “putted it around” because you thought that your gauges were mis reading as you also noticed that the fuel gauge was not reading either. I asked you a series of questions relating to temperature, sounds, etc, in which I did not hear an answer back until almost 3 hours later when you sent me a video of the motor knocking. You indicated that you “limped” the boat back to the dock with the motor running in foul condition. I immediately came over to your house and assessed the situation. A quick over view of the motor showed evidence of a major overheat... Burnt exhaust ports, blued head bolts, collapsed exhaust hose...  This led me to open the jet clean out where we found tangled up clumps of lake grass and fishing line which tied in with when you were saying that the boat would not rev and seemed stressed (no propulsion = no cooling water).
So this is what I concluded: oil got extra hot, got thinned out, oil pressure vanished, and damaged the bearings and the non- resized connecting rods did not help. When I was at your house, you understood this, but decided that at 3AM (when you to started texting me) to go through the denial phase, and began researching improper plumbing, when that clearly is not the issue. You offered up to me why my plumbing was wrong with the most ludicrous explanations. Sometimes we have to learn from our own mistakes, and I hope that it works out for you and that your motor comes together nicely with your own hands, Just a simple tip: don’t cheap out on yourself this time and do the correct machine work - you will soon see, it’s not as easy as it all looks!. I am even willing to give you another crank and some extra connecting rods free of charge as I know that you will need them.

Also just a friendly note: More Power is very knowledgable and knows his shit, wanna know why? because I tutored him about Olds 455 all the while that he was building his motor.


This right here is one reason I no longer own a boat shop...  :-\

Very professionally handled in my humble opinion.

I have no dog in this fight either way, that being said, it sounds like you got exactly what you "could" pay for....

The set up is likely the cause of the issues and more than probable that these issues were there before the engine ever even ran.

Good luck getting her back together.

GT
  • Boat #1: 1992 Carrera 20.5 Elite (I/O bitches)
  • Boat #2: 19' Bubble deck Jet BBC Berkeley
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If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

Time to man up and yank it John!  :banghead:
Ray

Handi-Crack

  • Karma: +3/-0
Re: 455 break down from over heating question
« Reply #98 on: August 21, 2014, 05:30:11 AM »
Since I'm off to work right now I will let this sit tell I get home.

I guess turn key like you said isn't what it means.




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GeneralLee

  • Karma: +10/-0
Re: 455 break down from over heating question
« Reply #99 on: August 21, 2014, 05:58:51 AM »
On to the next topic...

Hey General Lee, or Bozo was your name, right? ...I don’t remember. You are an instigator  (you may need to google that). You don’t know the first thing about building an engine, so your input about what the issue is means nothing.
I recall the time you are referring to as it is the only interaction I have ever had with you. I told to you to come pick up your steering cable on a Saturday before 12. You texted me that you were in Downey at 3PM. I was no longer at the shop and honestly had enough of your shenanigans as prior in the week you were stroking me about my Jacuzzi WJ diverter, Which only ended with “my wife won’t let me”. I also heard through the grape-vine (since the jet boat community is so small) that I was not the only one that you stroked and promising to buy their parts and fell through.

There, I did the work for you, no need to add to the story, but please explain to me one thing. How do you get a waste of $100 fuel when you live in Temecula and my shop is in Sylmar and Google maps says that we are 105 miles door to door and you only ended up in Downey. Not to mention only 1h45min drive time one way...

I smell some embellishment...

You should remove the rest of the words from your signature and just leave “stupid”, it would be a perfect signature for you... just saying...and a lot of people wouldn’t have to be confused.

And I smell bull sh×t on your story regarding our one time encounter over the phone. I texted you at 10am telling you I was on my way and you told me you were busy with another members boat and you'd let me know when you will be done. I texted you again at 3pm and you never replied.

Regarding your diverter, I simply said I'd talk to the wife, I never committed to buying it. Please you know how many times other members flaked on buying my parts. You don't see me crying about it.

But let's not highjack this thread petty nonsense you got bigger fish to fry then this.

Stupid move...shouldn't have done that!
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