It's not that at all Rod, it's the fact that Milodon pans on BBFs in jet boats are known to cause the type of oiling problems EW is describing.

Got it. Thank you. 

Is it possible that you have a restriction in the oil return that would allow the Melling HV (high volume) oil pump to evacuate the pan at higher RPM?  I'm not familliar enough with the BBF block to know if this could be an issue.

If you change the pump, what will you replace it with?

Just a couple questions that I have not seen addressed yet.

It's more amazing that a front sump pan didn't give you any problems in a jet boat. 

I better not have a problem with a front sump pan... I can't use a rear sump.  I wish I could but the jet intake angle prevents that.

Does anyone have any pictures of the inside of any other marine brand oil pans??  That would give me an idea of what to look for.

This thing has a windage tray in it.  Do you think I need to make that wider?  Longer?  Angle the sides of the windage tray downward?  That's where the pictures would be a big help.

I can do just about anything to the pan.  We have quite a machine & metal shop here at the plant.

Boy I'll say it should help.   There is a very big differance isn't there!
If this thing doesn't work Friday I'll be doing some extensive modifications.

It seems like Armondo places a great deal of emphasis on the right side of the pan as well as a total box of the oil.

Thank you very very much!

I guess I should ask if anyone has one of these pans for sale and how much.....

I could just dump mine.   It looks like a complete rebuild to fix mine!

never seen a used Armondo's, new they are like 350ish

Are the armondo's only sold by them or are they sold by retailers?
I found his website and they are $399.   I don't know if that includes the pick up or not.
The website isn't very informative.

Are the armondo's only sold by them or are they sold by retailers?
I found his website and they are $399.   I don't know if that includes the pick up or not.
The website isn't very informative.

This is a response to an e-mail I sent them.

The Jet Oil Pan comes with 4 trap doors, windage tray with scrapers, pickup
 
We are now at our new location,
 
Armando’s Racing Oil Pans
15476 Montana Ave
EL Paso, Texas 79938
                     (915)849-7622
 
 
 
 
If you have any questions or concerns please, contact me.

Thank you,

Armando Rodriguez
Armando's Racing Oil Pans
Phone: (915)894-7622
Fax: (915)894-7622
Cell: (323)422-0145 
E-mail: aroilpans@aol.com

There is a very big differance isn't there! If this thing doesn't work Friday I'll be doing some extensive modifications.

It seems like Armondo places a great deal of emphasis on the right side of the pan as well as a total box of the oil.

I think you mean that "left" side, or drivers side of the pan.  Your Milodon pan will need to be modified in a different fashion.

LO

Well, I do have a wonderful wife!   I explained what was going on with the oil pan and the modifications it may need      I also told her about the other brand pan, she stopped me in mid
sentence and told me to get one 

I love that lady, I called Armondo and he's going to build me one and send it hopefully to be here next
weekend.

Anybody interested in a very slightly used Milodon 10 quart marine pan with windage tray......

I wanted to give you fellows an update on what's happening with the Milodon pan and Summit Racing.

Summit's tech guy said   "put on the stock oil pump".

Milodon said    "take two quarts of oil out"   it's probably the oil pump bypass.   Now, what the hell does taking two quarts of oil out have to do with the oil pump bypass

Jerks!

They say the oil is foaming and it's the motor's fault.  I said there is NO sign of foaming just loss of pressure.
I told them I ordered another pan to end the debate. 
I asked them if they would take it back if the pressure doesn't drop when I install the Armondo's pan.
We'll see what response that brings.

Seems they only want your money, they don't care if the parts actually perform as advertised.

They are a retailer not a manufactuer, they dont have to care if the products they selll work or not!

No really, customer service, customer is right, make the customer happy no matter what is not the majority anymore. You will not find it at the majority of retailers anymore.

Buy it from Jet Boat Performance!

I wanted to give you fellows an update on what's happening with the Milodon pan and Summit Racing.

Summit's tech guy said   "put on the stock oil pump".

Milodon said    "take two quarts of oil out"   it's probably the oil pump bypass.   Now, what the hell does taking two quarts of oil out have to do with the oil pump bypass

Jerks!

They say the oil is foaming and it's the motor's fault.  I said there is NO sign of foaming just loss of pressure.
I told them I ordered another pan to end the debate. 
I asked them if they would take it back if the pressure doesn't drop when I install the Armondo's pan.
We'll see what response that brings.

Seems they only want your money, they don't care if the parts actually perform as advertised.

There are really two reasons for no pressure at higher RPM's, the pump bypass is open, or you are out of oil.

Bypass open - if the pressure gets too great, as will happen with a lot of flow and always at the upper RPM's, the bypass is supposed to open up and let the pressure go out. If the bypass sticks in the open position, then you will have no pressure until the bypass closes. Normally it opens and closes to keep the pressure consistant.

No oil - If you are using the stock type pickup, those are pretty convoluted on a BBF. If you have a leak in any section including the pump, as soon as you start putting oil on the top of the motor and the pan is no longer completely full of oil, any leaks will cause the pump to suck air as soon as the oil level falls, even if there are several quarts of oil in the pan. You check this by over filling the pan by a few quarts and seeing if you have the same problem at the same RPM.

The other issue could be how it returns. Much like in the olds, where the issue is the oil doesn't return to the pan, if your pan is not allowing the oil to reach the pickup area expediantly, then the pan is full of oil, while the pickup area is uncovered. I don't know if the milodon pan has baffels, but if not, then this isn't your problem.

Another issue could be the depth of the pickup. Too high, and the oil level drops and the pump is uncovered. Too low, and the pan blocks the flow, so at upper RPM's the pump isn't pumping enough GPM, so the pressure drops. You typically want it about 3/8ths from the pan bottom.

I don't know how the windage trays are on the BBF, but I know on the Mopars if the pan isn't cut correctly for the windage tray, then the oil gets blocked on the way to the sump. That may be something else to check.

I've been very polite to your buddies.  I also have bought many many parts from Summit over the last 25 years or so.

 I don't however share your desire to spend "big bucks" on parts that don't work as advertised and just eat it when they don't.

My beef is with Milodon, I'm just trying to enlist the help of Summit to get them to take the pan back.

It's easy to come off as arrogant in an email.   You can neither hear the tone nor the frustration of all the hours of work being in vain.  It's all subject to readers interpretation,  One guy would say "I understand" the other "he's arrogant"

Back on track here, I can't pump a 6 quart pan dry with the same brand HV pump as I'm using now on a 10 quart pan.   

How do you explain the manufacturer telling someone to drain 2 or so quarts out of a 10 quart pan and try that?    They are trying to blame it on the pump bypass??  Am I missing something here, how does taking oil out of a pan fix a bad oil pump bypass?

 Summit says try a stock pump.   If I'm pumping the pan dry why would you take oil OUT?  If it's a pump bybass why would you take oil OUT   Why would you go to a stock pump and not a new HV pump if it's a bypass?  Does this sound like crap and a run around to anyone else or is it just me?

So now I'm running a 10 quart pan with a bit over 7 quarts of oil in it.  This by the way has stopped the oil pressure drop.   Hmmm, I guess it fixed the pump.  The HV pump that is.

 Did I get what I paid for?  NO. Does it indicate a problem with their pan that they know about, I certainly think so.  What do you guys think?

Now back to your statement of I'm pumping the pan dry with that  HV pump.   How can I pump a 10 quart pan dry with 10 quarts of oil in it but not if I only put in 7-8 quarts??   

Let's see you handle that question. 

 What makes you think it's the pump and not the windage tray?

The fellow I'm buying the new pan from  said he feels it's a lack of baffles and gates in addition to crappy windage tray.  He feels the oil is following the crank due to the crappy windage tray and  not draining back fast enough due to the lack of gates and prober baffles.   

I would like to thank you gentlemen that recommended Armondo's racing pans.  They were really nice to talk to and very informative. 

Next, should I just say "close enough I only paid  $400+ no biggie" and use this Milodon pan for a parts box?  Not me, I think I should  say "wait a minute, this isn't what I paid for, I can only run between 7 and 8 quarts in a 10 quart pan.

If a part doesn't work up to my expectations it's gone.  Arrogant?  I call it particular and fussy. I'm  willing to pay a fair price for what I need with the expectations of getting what I pay for.
That used to be the American way, pride in craftsmanship. 

I guess it depends on which side of the fence you are on maybe someday you'll be on the other side too and you may come across as arrogant.

I hope this string prevents just one person from going through the crap I have.

Sorry for the length of this post.