BBC issue

« **on:** April 27, 2016, 09:15:59 PM »

I'm trying to bring the 454 in the Canyon back to life slowly and cautiously. Had the tunnel ram off to polish it, check the cam (found roller of unknown specs), and put some oil in the valley to help lubricate it on start up. It has a remote dual oil filter with new filters (Wix, not Fram) which were filled before installing them. Pumped the old oil out and refilled with fresh for startup with nothing particularly nasty about it and not loaded with fuel. I bought a cheap oil pump primer to get some oil circulated before cranking and spun the pump with the valve covers off to verify circulation. While spinning the pump, it would build resistance as you'd expect when it builds pressure but after several minutes nothing to the rockers.
I wrote that off to a cheap tool as I've heard some of these offshore tools don't seal well and bleed off pressure before it can get to the top end. Today, I pulled the plugs, fogged the cylinders and spun the motor over with the starter. Distributor rotor spins, rockers move, no nasty noises, and still no oil to the rockers. My next move will be putting a mechanical oil pressure gauge on it and trying to prime it again.
Is there something common to the BBC that can bleed oil pressure before it gets to the top, or something obvious I may have overlooked? I know I haven't put a lot of detail into this, so if there's some questions that may help narrow down this issue, throw them at me.

« **Reply #1 on:** April 27, 2016, 10:57:08 PM »

Quote from: roost on April 27, 2016, 09:15:59 PM

I'm trying to bring the 454 in the Canyon back to life slowly and cautiously. Had the tunnel ram off to polish it, check the cam (found roller of unknown specs), and put some oil in the valley to help lubricate it on start up. It has a remote dual oil filter with new filters (Wix, not Fram) which were filled before installing them. Pumped the old oil out and refilled with fresh for startup with nothing particularly nasty about it and not loaded with fuel. I bought a cheap oil pump primer to get some oil circulated before cranking and spun the pump with the valve covers off to verify circulation. While spinning the pump, it would build resistance as you'd expect when it builds pressure but after several minutes nothing to the rockers.
I wrote that off to a cheap tool as I've heard some of these offshore tools don't seal well and bleed off pressure before it can get to the top end. Today, I pulled the plugs, fogged the cylinders and spun the motor over with the starter. Distributor rotor spins, rockers move, no nasty noises, and still no oil to the rockers. My next move will be putting a mechanical oil pressure gauge on it and trying to prime it again.
Is there something common to the BBC that can bleed oil pressure before it gets to the top, or something obvious I may have overlooked? I know I haven't put a lot of detail into this, so if there's some questions that may help narrow down this issue, throw them at me.

Two things come to mind.

First, loose tolerances can take a lot of oil before it will get to the top end.

How fast were you spinning the primer?

Second, has the engine been run before? Is there any chance at all someone forgot the galley plugs?

What block?

GT

« **Reply #2 on:** April 28, 2016, 07:45:28 AM »

Don't the lifters need to be working (pumping) to get oil up to the heads? I could be wrong but I think using the primer will only fill the galleys and make oil available to the lifters, beyond that the engine needs to be turning.

« **Reply #3 on:** April 28, 2016, 07:52:11 AM »

Quote from: 00 CP on April 28, 2016, 07:45:28 AM

Don't the lifters need to be working (pumping) to get oil up to the heads? I could be wrong but I think using the primer will only fill the galleys and make oil available to the lifters, beyond that the engine needs to be turning.

I spun it with the starter yesterday and no oil to the top end.
I'm wondering if the remote filter adapter may have something to do with it as I've heard there's a bypass in that area. The oiling circuit looks like there are 2 problem areas...... filter adapter and rear cam bearing. The odd thing is the oil that came out was run for some time and had a fair amount of discoloration from carbon, so it ran for an extended period. I'm thinking maybe I pull the adapter off and put a stock filter on to test next.

« **Reply #4 on:** April 28, 2016, 08:06:31 AM »

Quote from: roost on April 28, 2016, 07:52:11 AM

I spun it with the starter yesterday and no oil to the top end.
I'm wondering if the remote filter adapter may have something to do with it as I've heard there's a bypass in that area. The oiling circuit looks like there are 2 problem areas...... filter adapter and rear cam bearing. The odd thing is the oil that came out was run for some time and had a fair amount of discoloration from carbon, so it ran for an extended period. I'm thinking maybe I pull the adapter off and put a stock filter on to test next.

OK, again just my thoughts, but cranking the motor on the starter at say 60 RPM for a short period of time is not the same as even a low idle speed, and may not be adequate to realize the flow of oil through the push rods and rockers.
By all means, investigate what you see as problem areas.

« **Reply #5 on:** April 28, 2016, 08:12:58 AM »

I'm no engine guru by any means at all. If the oil pump primer you used goes in place of the distributor, that should put oil to the top. The few that I've been involved with building, we use an old distributor shaft and spin it with a 1/2" drill.
Thinking you might be on to something with the remote oil filter set up

« **Reply #6 on:** April 28, 2016, 08:24:51 AM »

What's your priming tool look like? Do you have the collar on it?

« **Reply #7 on:** April 28, 2016, 08:48:50 AM »

Yes, it has the collar

« **Reply #8 on:** April 28, 2016, 08:59:58 AM »

you mentioned something about a roller cam. did you change out the cam...if so is the block an early 427 or 396. if so those blocks do NOT have a oil groove underneath the #5 cam bearing. if the cam was changed out the old cam would have that oiling groove in the #5 position of the camshaft and would be very noticeable. if all is good from that point it is not unheard of to need to preoil a gen 4 bbc for a half of an hour to get all rockers to see oil. if the engine sat for a long period of time it would be like a new engine. this is my experience with them.

« **Reply #9 on:** April 28, 2016, 09:44:40 AM »

Quote from: 427 wilder on April 28, 2016, 08:59:58 AM

you mentioned something about a roller cam. did you change out the cam...if so is the block an early 427 or 396. if so those blocks do NOT have a oil groove underneath the #5 cam bearing. if the cam was changed out the old cam would have that oiling groove in the #5 position of the camshaft and would be very noticeable. if all is good from that point it is not unheard of to need to preoil a gen 4 bbc for a half of an hour to get all rockers to see oil. if the engine sat for a long period of time it would be like a new engine. this is my experience with them.

It's not an early block. The casting# indicated (as I remember) a MK IV 4 bolt 454, and the cam was in it already.

« **Reply #10 on:** April 30, 2016, 04:03:03 PM »

I really doubt you have a problem, sounds like you are taking the proper steps to fire up an engine that has sat for a while. I have built many engines over the years and even on the stand priming the engine with a half inch drive drill motor with a good priming tool, at the rpm that the drill spins it has taken me up to 25 minutes to get oil out the top of every push rod and rocker arm, and that’s with 65-70 psi of oil pressure.

« **Reply #11 on:** April 30, 2016, 04:08:12 PM »

Same here primed ours same way some came up right a way had three that were stubborn. Once I fired up to adjust rockers while running they started to pump oil

roost

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