Clearance issues...

« **Reply #75 on:** June 03, 2011, 07:52:39 AM »

If it went like that, it would be fine. That's the way the job should be done......it rarely goes like that tho. The fact is, you'll never know unless you measure it.

« **Reply #76 on:** June 03, 2011, 07:54:23 AM »

Quote from: HomeBlown57 on June 03, 2011, 07:32:51 AM

This is a sincere question coupled with my opinion. I can't imagine the machine shop removing more than .005 from the caps to begin the process. (could be wrong) after honing back round this should only raise the crank .0025. I don't know what they use to register the new crank centerline. I just can't believe that .0025 would matter. I wonder how much the block moves and mishapes during operation. Agreed, if you start in the wrong place it probably won't get better. BUT, I would rather have round holes .0025 higher than an out of round hole in the wrong spot. As for lining up the bores with the "NEW" crank centerline .0025 (new crank location) at 45 degrees (new crank location in regard to the existing cylinder centerline) at 7" (rod plus pin height) is about .020 degrees.
My opinion;
I have a tough time swallowing .020 degrees having ANY impact on anything.
My question;
Does this amount really matter?

On the other hand, I do see the impact of having a loose timing chain. Although, if we run the calcs on a 3" timing gear moving the crank .0025 only results in less than 1/2 a crank degree. When degreeing a cam I am always satisfied if I am within 1/2 a degree. If you subscribe to the theory that the cam will use the play in the chain (rotate forward and backward based either on the the chain springing or valve springs pushing the cam forward) the most impact that could have is 1 degree total.

Ok, I'm done.

Ron's got a point. Most don't even degree a cam in properly, so yeah, splitting hairs on this. (Homeblown, you're dead ballls on with the way I think and do it, BUT remember two things. First, the timing chain, and not depending on engine, will never go slack on the "pull"side at speed. Yes ramp ups and downs can cause issue at low RPM, but at the speeds we work with, doesn't really exist.) Stretch is more of a worry, and honestly, how many people who have an opinion on this actually "re-time" or "re-degree" a cam after some good hours on it? I do, and hadda buy offset keys............

What Pat is trying to say, and I whole heartedly agree, Is expect perfection and go from there and do not accept substandard work. In dealing with the cam degreeing issue later? well, those CAN be over come.

Ray

« **Reply #77 on:** June 03, 2011, 08:28:03 AM »

There comes a ponit where you just have to do it. It would be nice to have things perfect, aiming for it is good. But sometimes you have to settle. Either settle with a few imperfections or settle with the fact that you will never be satisfied and have your boat apart forever.

« **Reply #78 on:** June 03, 2011, 08:38:52 AM »

The more I think about this the more I am surprised this happened.

IMHO, the block should be put in the align hone "backward" and keep the bight off the front mains....This would require a very experienced machinist and not a normal job scope, but should completely cure the problem. I think the crank center line relocation will be non issue and may be overblown unless this block had an ass load of block shift from the beginning (easiest to tell by the amount of material around the front and rear cam hole and the centering of the front and rear mains).

Having an automotive machine shop in the family for a little over 30 years, you hear a lot of horror stories that turn out to be easy fixes, I think this is one of those...

In all honesty, if I have a block that needs to have caps replaced, I just convert it with billets or start over....Hate messing around with used parts to fix used parts...And I am a cheap ass....

GT

« **Reply #79 on:** June 03, 2011, 08:42:18 AM »

I agree....for this application, if it's serviceable, put it together....problem is, it's not serviceable now. The first motor in the white boat ate rear main bearings every 2 weekends because the line bore job was botched. I also had 3/4"+ timing chain slop because they went too far with it......this was the second block I tried to get done right and finally gave up and just put it together.

My point was simply, if a shop, in their efforts to "fix"
the mains, decided that 3 different sizes and inadequate oil clearance was the way to go....what else did they screw up? They obviously didn't measure
anything...just winged it. It's amazing how little details can destroy expensive parts. I'd just like to see brad put together a solid motor so he can enjoy the boat instead of having problems every time he takes it out.

« **Reply #80 on:** June 03, 2011, 08:56:57 AM »

Quote from: Brendella Pickle on June 03, 2011, 08:28:03 AM

But sometimes you have to settle. Either settle with a few imperfections or settle with the fact that you will never be satisfied and have your boat apart forever.

the million dollar

?? is, are those imperfections going to cause problems later?? unto wich, the boat will be torn down again???

on another note, any thing is fixable but, is it woth it? or should a new (different) block be procured and the process started over? if the current machine shop is not going to fix this for free, then i would be hard pressed not to get a different block and start over.... jmo

« **Reply #81 on:** June 03, 2011, 10:05:56 AM »

i appreciate all the concerns here, but you all arent looking at the big picture here.

this block/crank was in BAD shape when i started. I personally thought it was all junk and when i started this project, i was unemployed and very little money to spend.

Ron (HB57) was by the house and asked me what the story was on this block as it was just sittin the in the corner of the garage upside down on an engine stand. I told him it was a pile of junk that I had seized the bottom end and toasted the crank and cooked all the mains.

he looked at it and said it was possibly salvageable. I didnt know shit about chevys, but he said its still a decent block and good rods (dimple) with a forged crank that could be turned to 30 over if needed. so i took the crank and rods to a machine shop and had them turn the crank and resize the rods. 3 rods were bad, but they replaced them and weight matched them...then turned the crank 20 over. the crank still had some bad areas on the main journals so i took it back to have it turned to 30 over.....so all that (turned crank and resize/replace rods) cost me about $300. Over all, the rods/crank work done here came out perfect in the end.

I then tried to assemble the motor and found out the main caps were all fubar'd from getting cooked. I was 1 1/2 weeks out from the last Avi trip. I found a shop in town (different from who did the rod/crank work) that would do a line bore on the block in 1 day. I was in a pinch and gave it a shot. Unfortunately, the work they did wasnt correct. It cost me $180 to have this work done and they replaced 1 main cap.

So I am now only $480 out of pocket from having a complete running motor. I had NOTHING before. Even if the block turns to junk, I am only out $180. I still got a perfect rotating assembly.

I dropped the block back off at the shop today. They are going to re-line bore it and do it on the 'loose' side. Even if it comes back today 'fucked'.....im not upset. it is what it is. i took a gamble on it. i will just look for another block and throw this shit in it.

it just a motor guys.

« **Reply #82 on:** June 03, 2011, 01:46:53 PM »

That is a VERY positive turn on a slightly negative situation Brad.

« **Reply #83 on:** June 03, 2011, 02:09:00 PM »

I just got the block back. they measured it for me and all 5 mains where 2.938

i just loaded the crank and other shit up and im headed over to Ron's to measure it out one more time.

while im there, we'll check the crank/cam distance as well.

« **Reply #84 on:** June 03, 2011, 02:11:29 PM »

Quote from: Brad @ SCJB on June 03, 2011, 02:09:00 PM

I just got the block back. they measured it for me and all 5 mains where 2.938

i just loaded the crank and other shit up and im headed over to Ron's to measure it out one more time.

while im there, we'll check the crank/cam distance as well.

« **Reply #85 on:** June 03, 2011, 02:21:15 PM »

Quote from: Brad @ SCJB on June 03, 2011, 02:09:00 PM

I just got the block back. they measured it for me and all 5 mains where 2.938

i just loaded the crank and other shit up and im headed over to Ron's to measure it out one more time.

while im there, we'll check the crank/cam distance as well.

All sounds good! I guess the lesson in this is have the same shop do all the work, no? Given your #5 measurement though, I'd bet the farm that it was replaced as well, and both were before the line hone, and not done again after. Just my thought on it.

You gonna make Big River with it? Mike and I kinda got a quiet roost contest a goin on that I think that Southwind might wanna be part of!

Ray

« **Reply #86 on:** June 03, 2011, 02:27:02 PM »

Ray, I don't think you heard me the first 5 times....#4 was the ONLY main that was replaced. Give your theory a rest.

As far as roosts....I got a new setup I am bringing to the table.

« **Reply #87 on:** June 03, 2011, 02:47:48 PM »

Quote from: Brad @ SCJB on June 03, 2011, 02:27:02 PM

Ray, I don't think you heard me the first 5 times....#4 was the ONLY main that was replaced. Give your theory a rest.

As far as roosts....I got a new setup I am bringing to the table.

Oh jeezuz..........

Ray

« **Reply #88 on:** June 03, 2011, 02:52:10 PM »

My 2 for $3 7-11 special bore gauge says its perfect...ron doesnt agree.

« **Reply #89 on:** June 03, 2011, 03:18:32 PM »

Quote from: Brad @ SCJB on June 03, 2011, 02:52:10 PM

My 2 for $3 7-11 special bore gauge says its perfect...ron goesnt agree.

Ron is right....That there is a "light beer" with the newly machined block and crank, you need to step it up to the "full carb shiznitt"...

Just my .02c....

Just put it together, all the measuring in the world wont change the fact that it is a Chevy, I have built big block Chevies sitting in the gravel and rusty that ran literally forever...

Good oil pump, good oil and beat it like it owes you money....

GT

« **Reply #90 on:** June 03, 2011, 07:49:05 PM »

so we're in good shape. all bearings have .003 clearance except #3 thats about .0025-.00275....which is close enough for me.

gunna assemble it tonight....just masked the block off and painted it.

« **Reply #91 on:** June 03, 2011, 10:41:18 PM »

crank is in and i got 2 pistons in so far. everything is goin smooth so far.

« **Reply #92 on:** June 03, 2011, 11:22:11 PM »

I'll bring a spare alternator for ya should it lose oil pressure

« **Reply #93 on:** June 04, 2011, 01:20:33 AM »

Quote from: lbhsbz on June 03, 2011, 11:22:11 PM

I'll bring a spare alternator for ya should it lose oil pressure

LOL! i'm not brining a spare engine this trip.........spare pump may arrive there this time tho!

Can I borrow your bore guages?

Ray

« **Reply #94 on:** June 04, 2011, 08:23:59 AM »

Quote from: lbhsbz on June 03, 2011, 11:22:11 PM

I'll bring a spare alternator for ya should it lose oil pressure

i read this 3 times and didnt get it until ray posted.

yeah, i look back now and thats fuckin funny....but in all honesty, the damn thing wouldnt turn over and died on the water like it lost all power.....but would if we jumped it....so we assumed it was a weak battery/dead alternator.....BUT.....turned out to be something way more serious.

« **Reply #95 on:** June 04, 2011, 08:36:42 AM »

Quote from: Brad @ SCJB on June 03, 2011, 10:41:18 PM

crank is in and i got 2 pistons in so far. everything is goin smooth so far.

oh yeah, i spoke too soon and jinxed myself.

the damn set of rings i bought is missing one grooved ring out of the box. FML.

« **Reply #96 on:** June 04, 2011, 09:04:19 AM »

Damn that sucks Brad

« **Reply #97 on:** June 04, 2011, 09:13:33 AM »

Quote from: Nordie on June 04, 2011, 09:04:19 AM

Damn that sucks Brad

amazingly i tracked one down. we're back in the game

« **Reply #98 on:** June 04, 2011, 10:04:47 AM »

« **Reply #99 on:** June 04, 2011, 10:17:18 AM »

Quote from: Brad @ SCJB on June 04, 2011, 09:13:33 AM

amazingly i tracked one down. we're back in the game

lbhsbz

IRRebel

Brendella Pickle

GT Jets

lbhsbz

Ralph Brunt

Brad @ SCJB

HomeBlown57

Brad @ SCJB

Luckie Stiff

IRRebel

Brad @ SCJB

IRRebel

Brad @ SCJB

GT Jets

Brad @ SCJB

Brad @ SCJB

lbhsbz

IRRebel

Brad @ SCJB

Brad @ SCJB

Nordie

Brad @ SCJB

lbhsbz

Luckie Stiff