Couple Magneto Questions

« **on:** July 15, 2011, 07:57:07 PM »

Ok.. Running into a few issues trying to wire my boat to maybe one day get on the water.. Maybe! Here goes.. When I run my Mag kill switch Im supposed to run it to a ground right? Id imagine the kill switch wire goes to the knob near the top of the mag that has a thumb screw. Second question is how do I wire my tach? I was told I have a mag specific tach but really have no idea how to go about wiring it. Thanks guys!

« **Reply #1 on:** July 15, 2011, 09:29:12 PM »

Quote from: SuperDuty on July 15, 2011, 07:57:07 PM

Ok.. Running into a few issues trying to wire my boat to maybe one day get on the water.. Maybe! Here goes.. When I run my Mag kill switch Im supposed to run it to a ground right? Id imagine the kill switch wire goes to the knob near the top of the mag that has a thumb screw. Second question is how do I wire my tach? I was told I have a mag specific tach but really have no idea how to go about wiring it. Thanks guys!

Who's magneto?

The easiest way to wire it in is to use an outboard motor ignition switch. Some magnetos are built with a tach signal, some are intended to use the wire you are talking about....

Also some use a converter http://www.msdpromag.com/pdf/frm19118.pdf

Some simply use an outboard tach... For an eight cylinder, you would use an eight pole tach.....

This may help. http://www.donzig.com/tachometers.html

When we ran magnetos, we had a second kill switch back by the engine with an aircraft type switch on it "just in case".....

GT

« **Reply #2 on:** July 15, 2011, 10:02:01 PM »

Its a Hunt. Ill try and find a picture of the front to show what Im lookin at. I was told these damn things were easy as it gets, I was lied to. I have the whole MSD setup but I love the looks and old school cool of the mag. Guess this is my only pic that really shows the whole thing. Just dropped 300 bucks for a new cam wiper and a test.. Kinda partial to keeping it.

« **Reply #3 on:** July 16, 2011, 08:22:31 AM »

Close up the gap on your plugs to .020, no resister plugs or wires, use good wire and switch for the ground. I run the tach off the v-drive, Ray has a belt driven tach drive. I think the adapter box should work for you.

« **Reply #4 on:** July 16, 2011, 08:44:08 AM »

I think that MSD adaptor that Glenn posted is probably the only way to do it with yours.

Most run a Mag that has a mechanical drive, or off the VDrive unit, or some odd auxiliary one like the one I have, as TDawg mentioned.

Ray

« **Reply #5 on:** July 16, 2011, 09:21:48 AM »

Yes, the kill switch gets wired to that knob. I'm trying to sort through first time magneto ownership too. Solid core wires and non resistor plugs are a must. The RF interference makes my dialback timing light go crazy. I'm going to try an old cheapie with no fancy functions, on a spare battery. Either that or you have to buy a "buzz box" http://morrismagneto.com/timing.html to time it. I spoke to Auto Meter about the tach adapter, they said they have a poor success rate with "internal coil" tachs like yours and mine. Also said older Tachs work as is, but newer ones are made differently. Yours might work. The kill wire is also the tach sender wire, through the adapter gizmo if you need it. It supposedly helps if you use shielded cable. picture running the kill wire through steel brake line all the way, and grounding the brake line to the block. Shields the sender/kill wire from the RF. There is apparently wire with shield built in you can buy. Wonder if coax cable like for your TV would work?
Keep us posted. I'll add my successes or failures to this thread.
Ralph

« **Reply #6 on:** July 17, 2011, 12:45:25 PM »

Hey, my old cheapy timing light worked! I hooked it to a spare battery next to the boat, fired it up, and voila, locked at 32 degrees just like it's supposed to be. My fancy dialback light went nuts when I tried it. Guess I'll have to try it hooked to the boat battery next.
Ralph

« **Reply #7 on:** July 19, 2011, 04:16:46 PM »

Iv been looking into the MSD tach deal.. But the one summit shows with that part number has alot less wires than the 6 shown in the diagram. Also.. I was told I have a tach made for a mag (guessing that means an AC tach) Think the MSD would work still? Says transfers the Mag to DC volts. Heres a link to what Im looking at. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MSD-8132/

« **Reply #8 on:** July 19, 2011, 05:11:21 PM »

Quote from: SuperDuty on July 19, 2011, 04:16:46 PM

Iv been looking into the MSD tach deal.. But the one summit shows with that part number has alot less wires than the 6 shown in the diagram. Also.. I was told I have a tach made for a mag (guessing that means an AC tach) Think the MSD would work still? Says transfers the Mag to DC volts. Heres a link to what Im looking at. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MSD-8132/

Check online for the manual for your make/model of tach. Might involve a few emails or phone calls to verify, but Could well be, in which case you're set and don't need that adaptor. Would be unusual to just HAPPEN to have such a tach.

The current MSD unit is different, but works the same. Call Joe Hunt with what you have, model numbers, etc. 916-635-5387. I'm sure they can tell you for sure if you can or can't, or what you need to do with what you got.

This should be the same info for anyone using the Vertex style internal transformer magneto. They are all the same mag, beleive it or not. The Mallory and MSD mag's are pretty much the same as well, but they are external transformer units also from the same Vertex, but external design, making them much easier to adapt to modern electronics. But I have a soft spot in my heart for the purist internal units.....they're Soooooo badass!

Ray

« **Reply #9 on:** July 19, 2011, 09:01:28 PM »

Hey, if you think the tach might work, hook it up and try it. Use the kill wire as the sender. Wire it in BEFORE the kill switch. It could be one of the older style tachs the Auto meter guy said would work. Doesn't necessarily have to be an Auto Meter tach.
Ralph

« **Reply #10 on:** July 19, 2011, 09:14:42 PM »

Im to the point after tonight I just have to wire the mag ground and I should be ready to fire her up. My Tach is an Autometer Pro-Comp Ultra lite 2. Couldnt find any serial numbers but I havnt pulled it out of the housing yet. How about ground wire? What gauge wire should I be running?

« **Reply #11 on:** July 20, 2011, 09:29:16 AM »

I read somewhere that a mag is about 4 amps, so 14 guage should be fine. Remember though, if you're grounding other stuff through the same wire, add the amperages together and use a large enough wire size to take it all.
I'm just about to go out and make my setup shut off with the key. I'll use a relay wired so power off grounds the mag. I'll probably leave the kill switch functional too.
Ralph

« **Reply #12 on:** July 20, 2011, 03:49:33 PM »

Quote from: ralph on July 20, 2011, 09:29:16 AM

I read somewhere that a mag is about 4 amps, so 14 guage should be fine. Remember though, if you're grounding other stuff through the same wire, add the amperages together and use a large enough wire size to take it all.
I'm just about to go out and make my setup shut off with the key. I'll use a relay wired so power off grounds the mag. I'll probably leave the kill switch functional too.
Ralph

I'd probably run a 10 guage minimum. Just me, but all that bangin' around it'll do in the gunwales over the years, heat, since we mainly run these things when it's HOT out...

......

Just my .02, Do it once. That is something that when you flip the switch to shut it down, theres a chance it could be in a hurry for a very scarey reason and the time for it to fail would be right then! Murphy's Law! (Murphy was obviously a jet boater, in case you guys didn't know)

Ray

« **Reply #13 on:** July 21, 2011, 08:29:34 AM »

10 guage? Possibly electrically unneccessary, but yeah, why not. Especially if it's the main ground for everything. Cheap insurance.

I got my "key off" setup done. 5 pin relay circuits are: 85 and 86, ign on and ground. Ground line from the mag in through 30, out through 87a to ground. Key power on pulls the relay to 87, which is unwired so the mag can fire. Key power off and the relay reverts to 87a and grounds the mag. I also wired 30 and 87a (mag kill and ground) through a "yank-to-kill" jetski type kill switch so either one kills the motor independently of the other. You never know when you might need it......
Ralph

« **Reply #14 on:** July 21, 2011, 10:14:22 PM »

Ummm Ralph, how did you wire 30 and 87a "through" that yank-to-kill switch ? And what type of switch is it ? Is it the type of switch that sends ground out (makes contact) when you pull the plug (thingy). If so, and you wired it on the ground wire going to terminal 87a of the relay, its not going to work like that. You wont be able to kill the motor with the key, there will be no ground on 87a unless the kill switch is pulled. If I'm right about how the kill switch works, wire the output side of the kill switch to the 87 terminal. That way the kill switch (when pulled) can ground the mag when the relay is energized, and the key can ground the mag by shutting the relay.

85 and 86 = ign and ground, like you have it.
30 = to the mag
87a = ground
87 = from ground when pulled kill switch

If its the type of kill switch that has contact when it plugged in and no contact when its pulled, wire it on the ground going to the 85 or 86 terminal (whichever your using for ground).

« **Reply #15 on:** July 21, 2011, 10:33:35 PM »

30 an 87a are interchangeable in this case. If the kill switch is pull closed, then you just splice the ground outs and call it good. If the kill switch is pull open, then You run the key hot through it to close 30 and 87a when pulled

Mine was easy, did it tonight.... The wires were already there....zapped me while I was playing around with it...made em easy to find

« **Reply #16 on:** July 21, 2011, 11:30:34 PM »

Quote from: lbhsbz on July 21, 2011, 10:33:35 PM

30 an 87a are interchangeable in this case. If the kill switch is pull closed, then you just splice the ground outs and call it good. If the kill switch is pull open, then You run the key hot through it to close 30 and 87a when pulled

Mine was easy, did it tonight.... The wires were already there....zapped me while I was playing around with it...made em easy to find

If you mean that the terminals could be reversed, yes that would work fine that way. But, if the kill switch is wired on the ground input side of the relay the key will not shut off the motor (ground the mag) when the kill switch is connected. There will be no ground getting to the relay to kill the mag. Yes you could just splice the kill switch to the relay output wire (wire to the mag). But you might as well do it the way I described and use the unused terminal on the relay (no splices).

And why are you using a relay Pat ? You have an OB right ? Just get an OB ignition switch, they have a ground output when you turn them off.

« **Reply #17 on:** July 21, 2011, 11:35:47 PM »

They sent me the wrong one....and I had a drawer full of relays. I like relays...they're fun.

I don't have the factory hand Throttle, so no pre-wired kill switch. I thought about tying a rope around my wrist and the other end to the coil wire, but figured the tech guys at the race would frown on that.

« **Reply #18 on:** July 21, 2011, 11:44:44 PM »

Quote from: lbhsbz on July 21, 2011, 11:35:47 PM

They sent me the wrong one....and I had a drawer full of relays. I like relays...they're fun.

I don't have the factory hand Throttle, so no pre-wired kill switch. I thought about tying a rope around my wrist and the other end to the coil wire, but figured the tech guys at the race would frown on that.

LMAO! Would work just as effectively though!

Ray

« **Reply #19 on:** July 21, 2011, 11:52:56 PM »

It was ralph's idea. I formed plan B after realizing I had 6 coils....that's too many knots

« **Reply #20 on:** July 22, 2011, 12:03:28 AM »

I had an OB Ign switch sitting here for years (from the Daytona). Threw it away a few months ago, didnt even think about the fact that I would be able to use it with my mag. Would have worked perfect.

« **Reply #21 on:** July 22, 2011, 12:06:45 AM »

Yeah, if you can figure out what each of the 12 or so terminals go to....stupid outboards.

« **Reply #22 on:** July 22, 2011, 12:18:35 AM »

Quote from: lbhsbz on July 21, 2011, 11:52:56 PM

It was ralph's idea. I formed plan B after realizing I had 6 coils....that's too many knots

Why the hell would you listen to Ralph?? On a whacker, you KNOW he's gonna set you up!

That's just too funny............Ski tow made of coil wires...........

On the relay, I'm not entirely sure I would use one in this case. Maybe off the keyswitch (had many of those fail, Pickle was the most recent victim, DAMN those things are made cheap), but I'd be wiring a direct one off the lanyard kill, or at the very least to a separate relay. In which case, ignore the 10 guage wire. There is NO OTHER WAY to shut the byatch down without it, so just think the thought through and be safe!

Ray

« **Reply #23 on:** July 22, 2011, 01:17:22 AM »

Just like everything else Ray, you get what you pay for. If you pay for a cheap China relay, you get a cheap China relay.

If you want a good reliable relay go to your local stereo shop and tell them you need a GOOD relay. We go through around a 100 relays a month at work, and they rarely fail. Stereo shops use a lot of relays for alarms, and other things, and having customers coming back because of a stupid relay failure is really annoying (my door locks dont work, my car wont start, etc, etc).

« **Reply #24 on:** July 22, 2011, 08:43:53 AM »

Geez, this having two Ralph's gets confusing! Love the "rope to the coil wire" idea, but the othr Ralph gets the credit for that one!
Propless: I wired the two switches parallel to each other so either one can kill the mag independently of the other. You're thinking I wired it AFTER the relay, and you're right, that woudn't work. Your way would work well, but if the relay fries, my way I can just unplug the relay, and use the kill switch.

SuperDuty

GT Jets

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HDriderTH

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propless

lbhsbz

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