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Blown R/T

  • Karma: +2/-0
Gen V 454
« on: December 06, 2014, 10:09:11 PM »
I found a newly rebuilt 454 with a Gen V block, I was wanting to run a mech fuel pump engine but there isn't a boss on the block so I'd have to run an electric.  My question is...  How many are running an electric fuel pump?  I have a brand new Holley Blue pump, how well will it pull fuel from the tanks when my fuel lines are on top of the tanks?  It was my understanding that the pump is supposed to be mounted below the tank level so it is gravity fed and will then push fuel to the carb, which seems impossible with my lines on top.  Any guidance is GREATLY appreciated

-Dustin


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86caribbean

  • Karma: +11/-0
Re: Gen V 454
« Reply #1 on: December 06, 2014, 10:27:16 PM »
You're correct with a GEN V engine you will have to use an electric pump, The Holley blue pump is a good pump and will feed an engine up to about 600 hp, and yes it should be gravity fed to make life easier on it. When I built my boat I did elect to go with a Holley mechanical marine 130 gph pump, but I have a 1978 Mark IV ,I like simplicity and I am more of a fan of mechanical items when I can get away with it, just to make it more fool proof. I have had some issues with electric pumps in the past, a mechanical pump can last for twenty years...
« Last Edit: December 06, 2014, 10:29:41 PM by 86caribbean »
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Blown R/T

  • Karma: +2/-0
Gen V 454
« Reply #2 on: December 06, 2014, 11:19:12 PM »
You're correct with a GEN V engine you will have to use an electric pump, The Holley blue pump is a good pump and will feed an engine up to about 600 hp, and yes it should be gravity fed to make life easier on it. When I built my boat I did elect to go with a Holley mechanical marine 130 gph pump, but I have a 1978 Mark IV ,I like simplicity and I am more of a fan of mechanical items when I can get away with it, just to make it more fool proof. I have had some issues with electric pumps in the past, a mechanical pump can last for twenty years...
That's exactly the same reason I want to run mechanical...  I currently have a mildly built Pontiac engine and an electric fuel pump and want to ditch the whole setup in favor of a BBC running a mechanical fuel pump but came across the engine in question at what I felt was a good deal.  When I went to look at the engine, I didn't realize it didn't have a mech fuel pump boss and was quite disappointed once I got there


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« Last Edit: December 07, 2014, 10:11:23 AM by Blown R/T »
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86caribbean

  • Karma: +11/-0
Re: Gen V 454
« Reply #3 on: December 06, 2014, 11:23:28 PM »
Is this an engine you have already purchased for your change over?
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GeneralLee

  • Karma: +10/-0
Re: Gen V 454
« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2014, 12:34:18 AM »
If you want to keep the V and run a electric pump I highly suggest to yank the tanks and tap them on the bottom rather the top. It'll work with the lines being on top but you'll go through electric fuel pumps every season. If you decide to go that route you should always have a spare in your float.
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lifted250

  • Karma: +6/-0
Re: Gen V 454
« Reply #5 on: December 07, 2014, 05:11:40 AM »
I am running holley red it pulls from the top no prob


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GT Jets

  • Karma: +192/-0
Re: Gen V 454
« Reply #6 on: December 07, 2014, 08:51:59 AM »
I have never had an electric pump fail pulling from the top.

Just remember to pull the anti-siphon valves and install ball valves instead. Also, the oil pressure switch is an absolute must.

Put a screen filter in front of the pump and push through a water separator.

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If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

Time to man up and yank it John!  :banghead:
Ray

lifted250

  • Karma: +6/-0
Re: Gen V 454
« Reply #7 on: December 07, 2014, 09:26:34 AM »
That's how I have mine set up


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Blown R/T

  • Karma: +2/-0
Re: Gen V 454
« Reply #8 on: December 07, 2014, 10:00:41 AM »

Is this an engine you have already purchased for your change over?
I didn't get it because of the fact there was no mech fuel pump location  👎


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Blown R/T

  • Karma: +2/-0
Gen V 454
« Reply #9 on: December 07, 2014, 10:03:21 AM »
I have never had an electric pump fail pulling from the top.

Just remember to pull the anti-siphon valves and install ball valves instead. Also, the oil pressure switch is an absolute must.

Put a screen filter in front of the pump and push through a water separator.

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A little more help if possible...  What and where is an 'anti-siphon valve'?  Oil press switch?

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« Last Edit: December 07, 2014, 10:08:41 AM by Blown R/T »
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Blown R/T

  • Karma: +2/-0
Re: Gen V 454
« Reply #10 on: December 07, 2014, 10:09:19 AM »
This is my tank selector I made using ball valves


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Blown R/T

  • Karma: +2/-0
Re: Gen V 454
« Reply #11 on: December 07, 2014, 10:17:35 AM »
Here's the engine...  Guy started at $2500 and dropped it to $2000 obo and he's including a stand and hoist (which I don't need either) so if I could get it for around $1700 I thought that was a good start...  What are your thoughts?


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86caribbean

  • Karma: +11/-0
Re: Gen V 454
« Reply #12 on: December 07, 2014, 02:19:17 PM »
In that engine description there are no real spec's, nothing, no numbers. Plus you're torque WILL NOT be higher than a HP number with engines that we play with. Just the whole lingo doesn't make sence, first you don't line bore the cam tunnel, crank cut 20%, heads triple cut and slaved?...WTF?.who describes engines like that? My personal opinion I think it's nothing real special and I think they just want to unload it and they pulled a HP and Torque number out of their ass. Being an engine builder myself and if I was selling an engine, I would have everything listed on a build sheet, and if I was going to boast about power numbers I would have the dyno sheets. In my world talk is cheap, numbers & math are everything..oh and don't forget the money. Always remember, you get what you pay for, $1,700 is a price for decent machine work and balancing, not a whole long block.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2014, 02:33:44 PM by 86caribbean »
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Blown R/T

  • Karma: +2/-0
Re: Gen V 454
« Reply #13 on: December 07, 2014, 09:07:32 PM »
Yeah...  Supposedly the guy got it from his buddy who got it from his dad and then the dad/son had a falling out so he can't get any specific info from the dad who built it...  I'm guessing that's why he's selling it so cheap since he doesn't have all the specs but I could be wrong.  My plan was to c/o the cam, intake and heads anyway and eventually put in a stroker crank.  I was looking for a decent long block and thought this might work


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86caribbean

  • Karma: +11/-0
Re: Gen V 454
« Reply #14 on: December 07, 2014, 09:38:26 PM »
My best advise for you is to just take your time and put together a plan on what you would really want, do the project once not two and three times. I actually would stick with a Mark IV block, the aftermarket companies cater to those more. Build the engine on paper first, have a direction with part numbers and prices and a good machine shop. Not sure how radical or how much power you're looking for, but sounds like you're aiming towards a 496ci BBC...best of luck, not sure where you're located, if I can offer any services send me a p/m and I'll see if I can help you out.
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Blown R/T

  • Karma: +2/-0
Re: Gen V 454
« Reply #15 on: December 08, 2014, 01:50:00 PM »
Thanks!  Yeah, somewhere around a 496.  I'm wanting about as much HP as I can get on pump gas, I was thinking around 700hp would do me good.  I'm in Riverside so not far from Ontario at all


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86caribbean

  • Karma: +11/-0
Re: Gen V 454
« Reply #16 on: December 08, 2014, 06:28:59 PM »
Wow, well 700hp is getting pretty serious in a boat, but on pump gas that may be streching it a bit. Why so much?, Do you want this naturally or are you going blown? HP above a certain level doesn't come cheap or easy, you have to really work for it. Although those numbers can be achieved always remember reliability is going to suffer. There is always a sacrafice when you build an engine to produce impressive power. What it's going to come down to is how much power can you afford to build. From this originating thread you were looking to get your hands on a long block assembley for roughly $2,000, that most likely would of been worthless to produce numbers like that. To be quite honest your looking at a cost of $8,500-9,500 for a quality engine that is assembled from scratch by someone that knows what they are doing, then dyno tune it, that's the ONLY way to find out what the engine needs as far as timing, air/fuel ratio ect...Just my two cents worth from the years that I have been doing this, but I don't know what your budget is, that dictates alot.
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GT Jets

  • Karma: +192/-0
Re: Gen V 454
« Reply #17 on: December 08, 2014, 07:10:41 PM »
Thanks!  Yeah, somewhere around a 496.  I'm wanting about as much HP as I can get on pump gas, I was thinking around 700hp would do me good.  I'm in Riverside so not far from Ontario at all


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700 huh?.

Is that all?

We had be built 12.25 :1 marathon motors with nothing but the best in parts spent thousands of dollars, hours tuning and playing with different cams and combos of parts and came up to approximately 600 horse on spec fuel (at the time it was Jet 106). Granted it was not tuned to the ragged edge, but I doubt seriously there was another 100 ponies hiding in it.

Good luck.

I think 500-550 is way more realistic naturally aspirated.

JMHO.

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If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

Time to man up and yank it John!  :banghead:
Ray

Blown R/T

  • Karma: +2/-0
Gen V 454
« Reply #18 on: December 08, 2014, 09:24:20 PM »
Wow, well 700hp is getting pretty serious in a boat, but on pump gas that may be streching it a bit. Why so much?, Do you want this naturally or are you going blown? HP above a certain level doesn't come cheap or easy, you have to really work for it. Although those numbers can be achieved always remember reliability is going to suffer. There is always a sacrafice when you build an engine to produce impressive power. What it's going to come down to is how much power can you afford to build. From this originating thread you were looking to get your hands on a long block assembley for roughly $2,000, that most likely would of been worthless to produce numbers like that. To be quite honest your looking at a cost of $8,500-9,500 for a quality engine that is assembled from scratch by someone that knows what they are doing, then dyno tune it, that's the ONLY way to find out what the engine needs as far as timing, air/fuel ratio ect...Just my two cents worth from the years that I have been doing this, but I don't know what your budget is, that dictates alot.
I wanna go fast  lol  I didn't think 600 hp would get me the ability to do triple digits but I could be wrong.  Right now a complete build budget isn't there which is why I was trying for something inexpensive but once escrow closes on my house I'll be able to build exactly what I want.  You guys know WAY MORE than I on this subject so give me your opinions...  I have 4 major things I'm wanting...  A nasty sounding idle, pump gas friendly, as reliable as possible and lots of HP!  Sounds easy enough, right?!  Haha  So give me your thoughts on how much HP I can expect ...


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« Last Edit: December 08, 2014, 09:36:19 PM by Blown R/T »
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Blown R/T

  • Karma: +2/-0
Re: Gen V 454
« Reply #19 on: December 08, 2014, 09:33:37 PM »

700 huh?.

Is that all?

We had be built 12.25 :1 marathon motors with nothing but the best in parts spent thousands of dollars, hours tuning and playing with different cams and combos of parts and came up to approximately 600 horse on spec fuel (at the time it was Jet 106). Granted it was not tuned to the ragged edge, but I doubt seriously there was another 100 ponies hiding in it.

Good luck.

I think 500-550 is way more realistic naturally aspirated.

JMHO.

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If 500-550 is a realistic number NA then I have no problem using a supercharger.  I dig the look anyway!  Ok, so what are some realistic numbers I can expect with some boost?


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  • Karma: +192/-0
Re: Gen V 454
« Reply #20 on: December 08, 2014, 09:42:59 PM »
I wanna go fast  lol  I didn't think 600 hp would get me the ability to do triple digits but I could be wrong.  Right now a complete build budget isn't there which is why I was trying for something inexpensive but once escrow closes on my house I'll be able to build exactly what I want.  You guys know WAY MORE than I on this subject so give me your opinions...  I have 4 major things I'm wanting...  A nasty sounding idle, pump gas friendly, as reliable as possible and lots of HP!  Sounds easy enough, right?!  Haha  So give me your thoughts on how much HP I can expect ...


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What hull?


Over 100 in what hull?

GT

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If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

Time to man up and yank it John!  :banghead:
Ray

GT Jets

  • Karma: +192/-0
Re: Gen V 454
« Reply #21 on: December 08, 2014, 09:47:06 PM »
If 500-550 is a realistic number NA then I have no problem using a supercharger.  I dig the look anyway!  Ok, so what are some realistic numbers I can expect with some boost?


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Depends on a few things, but I would say a pump gas 496 with a blower set up right would be good for a reliable 800 HP.

I fear anything else would be,for lack of a better term,  temporary.

Not meaning any offense. Just attempting to keep it real.

GT

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If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

Time to man up and yank it John!  :banghead:
Ray

jyeager

  • Karma: +62/-0
Re: Gen V 454
« Reply #22 on: December 08, 2014, 10:02:06 PM »
I can vouch for the pump gas motor I'be been running for the last 3 years. Single carb 461 ci BBC with Brodix heads. Thing made 625 on the dyno. 10.2 to 1 if we made that, I think you can make 700 on pump gas with a 496 no problem. 👍👍👍👍👍


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Re: Gen V 454
« Reply #23 on: December 08, 2014, 10:16:20 PM »
I can vouch for the pump gas motor I'be been running for the last 3 years. Single carb 461 ci BBC with Brodix heads. Thing made 625 on the dyno. 10.2 to 1 if we made that, I think you can make 700 on pump gas with a 496 no problem. 👍👍👍👍👍


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75 HP out of 35 cubes? Interesting.

The word that shut it down for me was "Inexpensive".

I can tell you this, 700 HP would be tuned to the gnats ass and on the ragged edge. You could not cheat on one single part. A 496 would have to turn near 5,800 RPM+ to make those numbers. Not sure reliability would be there. This does not sound like a quarter miler, but more of a river racer.

GT
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If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

Time to man up and yank it John!  :banghead:
Ray

Blown R/T

  • Karma: +2/-0
Re: Gen V 454
« Reply #24 on: December 08, 2014, 10:30:08 PM »


What hull?


Over 100 in what hull?

GT

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74 Rogers Bonneville
SS A/B impeller


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