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Blown R/T

  • Karma: +2/-0
Re: Gen V 454
« Reply #25 on: December 08, 2014, 10:34:22 PM »

Depends on a few things, but I would say a pump gas 496 with a blower set up right would be good for a reliable 800 HP.

I fear anything else would be,for lack of a better term,  temporary.

Not meaning any offense. Just attempting to keep it real.

GT

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No see, THATS what I'm talking about!  No offense taken, I appreciate your advice...  more than you know!


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Re: Gen V 454
« Reply #26 on: December 08, 2014, 10:36:39 PM »
74 Rogers Bonneville
SS A/B impeller


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You are out of your mind if you think you will be doing triple digits in a Bonneville...   :screwy: :screwy: :screwy: :screwy:

IMHO you are staring a 85-90 MPH boat right in the face. Anything over that and you will be able to smell your angels perfume...

Don't hate, just trying to reel in your expectations a little.

BTW, not impossible, just need to keep really good notes and get familiar with these guys I know. Mr. Trial and Dr. Error...

GT
  • Boat #1: 1992 Carrera 20.5 Elite (I/O bitches)
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If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

Time to man up and yank it John!  :banghead:
Ray

Blown R/T

  • Karma: +2/-0
Re: Gen V 454
« Reply #27 on: December 08, 2014, 10:41:18 PM »


75 HP out of 35 cubes? Interesting.

The word that shut it down for me was "Inexpensive".

I can tell you this, 700 HP would be tuned to the gnats ass and on the ragged edge. You could not cheat on one single part. A 496 would have to turn near 5,800 RPM+ to make those numbers. Not sure reliability would be there. This does not sound like a quarter miler, but more of a river racer.

GT
I was thinking I wanted to be able turn close to 6000 rpm (according the berk impeller chart, and I read in a post where you said on average anything over about 6200 rpm caused problems) and you are correct, a river racer...  I wouldn't be running it there often, I just want the option to kick some ass every now and again...  You know, cruise to the sand bar and then make a few hot laps and then cruise back type of thing


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jyeager

  • Karma: +62/-0
Gen V 454
« Reply #28 on: December 08, 2014, 10:42:35 PM »

75 HP out of 35 cubes? Interesting.

The word that shut it down for me was "Inexpensive".

I can tell you this, 700 HP would be tuned to the gnats ass and on the ragged edge. You could not cheat on one single part. A 496 would have to turn near 5,800 RPM+ to make those numbers. Not sure reliability would be there. This does not sound like a quarter miler, but more of a river racer.

GT
I know of plenty of pump gas 496's on the river that make north of 700. And they are nowhere near the "ragged edge" on the tune up.
My buddy brad made 714hp with an 088 Iron headed deal. isky hydraulic roller camshaft 680 lift 250 intake 258 exhaust duration 108 lobe center 10.5 to 1 👍 it can be done.


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jyeager

  • Karma: +62/-0
Gen V 454
« Reply #29 on: December 08, 2014, 10:43:16 PM »
A
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jyeager

  • Karma: +62/-0
Re: Gen V 454
« Reply #30 on: December 08, 2014, 10:45:19 PM »

I know of plenty of pump gas 496's on the river that make north of 700. And they are nowhere near the "ragged edge" on the tune up.
My buddy brad made 714hp with a tunnel ram, 088 Iron headed deal. isky hydraulic roller camshaft 680 lift 250 intake 258 exhaust duration 108 lobe center 10.5 to 1 👍 it can be done.


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  • Karma: +62/-0
Re: Gen V 454
« Reply #31 on: December 08, 2014, 10:47:36 PM »


You are out of your mind if you think you will be doing triple digits in a Bonneville...   :screwy: :screwy: :screwy: :screwy:

IMHO you are staring a 85-90 MPH boat right in the face. Anything over that and you will be able to smell your angels perfume...

Don't hate, just trying to reel in your expectations a little.

BTW, not impossible, just need to keep really good notes and get familiar with these guys I know. Mr. Trial and Dr. Error...

GT
I agree, a bonneville is not the best choice for a go fast boat.... Unless it's a TR.


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  • Karma: +192/-0
Re: Gen V 454
« Reply #32 on: December 08, 2014, 10:51:15 PM »
I know of plenty of pump gas 496's on the river that make north of 700. And they are nowhere near the "ragged edge" on the tune up.
My buddy brad made 714hp with an 088 Iron headed deal. isky hydraulic roller camshaft 680 lift 250 intake 258 exhaust duration 108 lobe center 10.5 to 1 👍 it can be done.


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I know it can be done.... But not on a restricted budget and not straight out of the gate.

Not trying to be the septic tank swizzle stick here. I can't tell you how many times I have seen guys build a decent big block and expect to set the world on fire, only to be completely disappointed when it does not work out.

For big block Chevy's, I use 1.125hp/cube as a pretty reliable pump gas guideline, anything over about 1.6hp/cube becomes more an more "temporary". Especially when a budget is mentioned.

Then again, I am very conservative. My friends call me a kill joy sometimes...

Keep in mind also, it depends on what you guys are calling "pump gas". The best we can do here is 90 AKI in the summer. Once in a while we can find 91 AKI.

GT
  • Boat #1: 1992 Carrera 20.5 Elite (I/O bitches)
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If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

Time to man up and yank it John!  :banghead:
Ray

Blown R/T

  • Karma: +2/-0
Re: Gen V 454
« Reply #33 on: December 08, 2014, 10:52:24 PM »


You are out of your mind if you think you will be doing triple digits in a Bonneville...   :screwy: :screwy: :screwy: :screwy:

IMHO you are staring a 85-90 MPH boat right in the face. Anything over that and you will be able to smell your angels perfume...

Don't hate, just trying to reel in your expectations a little.

BTW, not impossible, just need to keep really good notes and get familiar with these guys I know. Mr. Trial and Dr. Error...

GT
Well that sucks, I thought Rogers could handle speed.  Although I'm pretty sure if I got it 90-95 ish I'd be more than happy...  Of course, I've never ridden in a boat that fast so I might be completely happy with 75-80?


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Blown R/T

  • Karma: +2/-0
Re: Gen V 454
« Reply #34 on: December 08, 2014, 10:57:27 PM »

I agree, a bonneville is not the best choice for a go fast boat.... Unless it's a TR.


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👎  Nope, just an 18' bubble deck


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  • Karma: +192/-0
Re: Gen V 454
« Reply #35 on: December 08, 2014, 10:59:22 PM »
Well that sucks, I thought Rogers could handle speed.  Although I'm pretty sure if I got it 90-95 ish I'd be more than happy...  Of course, I've never ridden in a boat that fast so I might be completely happy with 75-80?


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In my little jet, at 85 MPH you would swear to God almighty you were going well over  a hundred.

That being said, in the aluminum tunnel hull, 90 felt like 65.... It may have had something to do with the full face helmets and hearing protection, but I like to think it was because the hull was sitting on a nice little cushion of very fast moving air...  :sly:

GT
  • Boat #1: 1992 Carrera 20.5 Elite (I/O bitches)
  • Boat #2: 19' Bubble deck Jet BBC Berkeley
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If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

Time to man up and yank it John!  :banghead:
Ray

Blown R/T

  • Karma: +2/-0
Re: Gen V 454
« Reply #36 on: December 08, 2014, 11:21:33 PM »
Thank you for all the replies and info...  Looks like I need to lower my expectations a bit.  I do like the idea of running a supercharger, I'll start my new plan off that.  A pump gas, supercharged 496 sounds like what I need


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Re: Gen V 454
« Reply #37 on: December 08, 2014, 11:24:21 PM »
Thank you for all the replies and info...  Looks like I need to lower my expectations a bit.  I do like the idea of running a supercharger, I'll start my new plan off that.  A pump gas, supercharged 496 sounds like what I need


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The beautiful thing about the huffer is that it relaxes the cylinder head/cam portion of the game. Just a wee bit.

The bottom end still needs to be built like a brick crapper though.


Good luck in the project. Looking forward to it.

GT
  • Boat #1: 1992 Carrera 20.5 Elite (I/O bitches)
  • Boat #2: 19' Bubble deck Jet BBC Berkeley
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If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

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Ray

Blown R/T

  • Karma: +2/-0
Re: Gen V 454
« Reply #38 on: December 08, 2014, 11:28:09 PM »

The beautiful thing about the huffer is that it relaxes the cylinder head/cam portion of the game. Just a wee bit.

The bottom end still needs to be built like a brick crapper though.


Good luck in the project. Looking forward to it.

GT
What block would you recommend I start with to build said 'brick crapper'?  Would a 4 bolt mark IV do the trick?


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jyeager

  • Karma: +62/-0
Re: Gen V 454
« Reply #39 on: December 08, 2014, 11:31:33 PM »

What block would you recommend I start with to build said 'brick crapper'?  Would a 4 bolt mark IV do the trick?


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4 bolt is always a good start 👍👍👍


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Re: Gen V 454
« Reply #40 on: December 08, 2014, 11:36:49 PM »
What block would you recommend I start with to build said 'brick crapper'?  Would a 4 bolt mark IV do the trick?


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If I was building it keeping budget in mind it would be a splayed main two bolt, if you already had a four bolt block, it would be studded.

I was told years ago that a main girdled two bolt block was every bit as "strong" as a factory four bolt was, the problem is when the caps "crabwalk", that is when things get gnarly real quick.

If money were no object (and it's not with me, because I have none) then I would build my platform on a Merlin III splayed main by World.. That is if It wasn't a Donovan aluminum...

The  again, if I could afford my taste, I would be on offshore and fly, not hanging with all you guys LMAO


GT
  • Boat #1: 1992 Carrera 20.5 Elite (I/O bitches)
  • Boat #2: 19' Bubble deck Jet BBC Berkeley
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If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

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Ray

GT Jets

  • Karma: +192/-0
Re: Gen V 454
« Reply #41 on: December 08, 2014, 11:38:32 PM »
4 bolt is always a good start 👍👍👍


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I agree it is the lesser of the two evils...  :thumbup:
  • Boat #1: 1992 Carrera 20.5 Elite (I/O bitches)
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If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

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Ray

86caribbean

  • Karma: +11/-0
Re: Gen V 454
« Reply #42 on: December 09, 2014, 08:34:44 AM »
It sounds like you're settling in on the blown application, reading the other comments, everyone is making sence, I do agree you might want to take it down a notch with a few of your expectations, like I said HP and speed just doesn't fall out of trees. As for a block, I know a factory 4 bolt main Mark IV block can hold up to about 800HP without starting to wiggle, meaning cylinder wall flex or cap dance. I used to have a 427 BBC GM block that made 771 naturally on alky, but that engine had 14.2:1 compression and allot of other nice goodies, but cylinder pressure is cylinder pressure no matter how you stuff it, and that's what makes power. In a nutshell an engine is a tool, fuel is the only thing holding the energy, the engine dictates how much energy can be extracted from the fuel and how much can you burn to push hard on the pistons. If budget permits I would go with a Dart big M splayed iron 4 bolt for the strength, remember the block is the foundation. As far as RPM goes with a 4.250" stroke holding rpm maybe at 6,000 that would put piston speed at 4,250 fpm, that's a moderate piston speed. Next, rod ratio needs to be looked at, a minimum .250 long H-beam rod needs to be used, making the rod ratio 1.50, whitch isn't great. A .400 long rod would be better bringing the ratio up to almost 1.54, that's about as good as it's going to get. Then hang those on a forged set of custom pistons with a raised pin height. See, there is some thought and planning to all of this if the end result (project) will be successful and live. So keep saving your pennies and get with someone that knows and work with a plan, all else will fail.
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jimpen

  • Karma: +68/-0
Re: Gen V 454
« Reply #43 on: December 09, 2014, 09:25:00 AM »
I run a 496 that is around 800 HP on a single carb.  It is also 13 to 1 and runs on VP 110.  The cost is north of 10,000 and it has been reliable.  But I agree with the group on this matter.  There is no magic number for triple digits it depends on your hull and setup.  Just let's say your going to need all 800hp then some.  Try 496 pump gash motor

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jimpen

  • Karma: +68/-0
Re: Gen V 454
« Reply #44 on: December 09, 2014, 09:26:54 AM »
Sorry about that my phone went crazy.  I was saying to try pump gas 496 with a 250 shot.

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Blown R/T

  • Karma: +2/-0
Re: Gen V 454
« Reply #45 on: December 09, 2014, 02:42:25 PM »

Sorry about that my phone went crazy.  I was saying to try pump gas 496 with a 250 shot.

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That's not necessarily a bad idea either...  Then it's pretty tame most of the time just cruising around until I open the bottle, hit the switch and floor it for some short sandbar drags


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Blown R/T

  • Karma: +2/-0
Gen V 454
« Reply #46 on: December 09, 2014, 02:42:56 PM »
I imagine I would still have to build the bottom end pretty stout to handle either the juice or boost
« Last Edit: December 09, 2014, 02:47:24 PM by Blown R/T »
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86caribbean

  • Karma: +11/-0
Re: Gen V 454
« Reply #47 on: December 09, 2014, 04:04:21 PM »
Be aware, there is more to running the "bottle" than many think. You better know what you're doing when it comes to setting up your fuel system and curve, I have seen allot of carnage over the years from NOS, before you blink you can torch a piston. It's not the nitrous that makes the power, it's the abundance of fuel the engine can now burn from feeding the engine more oxygen and nitrogen, but look out if you run lean, kiss the pistons good bye, or you can hammer out the bearings and rings from detonation, seen it all happen. Again, don't forget NOS is just another way of creating very high cylinder pressures, so higher octane fuel is needed and retarting the ignition timing...just some food for thought.
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jimpen

  • Karma: +68/-0
Re: Gen V 454
« Reply #48 on: December 09, 2014, 06:21:34 PM »
NOS in not the monster it made out to be.  You will need to have a motor set up to run NOS with anything over a 100 shot.  I run two separate fuel systems one VP 110 for normal use and one with 116 for the NOS.  I also have a separate holley blue just for the NOS solenoid.  You will also need a retarder the set up depends on the shot size.  Most the boats on the river hitting triple digits that I have run into are N/A motors with NOS just remember true triple digit boats are not as common as some might think.  If you are not stuck on that hull I would look to make a change.  Most guy's look for right hull and the motor is secondary in the 100mph process.  Whatever choice you make wear a lifeline.  I have attached a couple of pictures for you tx 19 gullwing and a 496N/A motor.

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MorePower

  • Karma: +20/-0
Re: Gen V 454
« Reply #49 on: December 09, 2014, 06:41:50 PM »
NOS in not the monster it made out to be.  You will need to have a motor set up to run NOS with anything over a 100 shot.  I run two separate fuel systems one VP 110 for normal use and one with 116 for the NOS.  I also have a separate holley blue just for the NOS solenoid.  You will also need a retarder the set up depends on the shot size.  Most the boats on the river hitting triple digits that I have run into are N/A motors with NOS just remember true triple digit boats are not as common as some might think.  If you are not stuck on that hull I would look to make a change.  Most guy's look for right hull and the motor is secondary in the 100mph process.  Whatever choice you make wear a lifeline.  I have attached a couple of pictures for you tx 19 gullwing and a 496N/A motor.

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I absolutely love your boat.
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