my exhaust gets hotter than hell...

« **on:** June 07, 2011, 02:17:44 PM »

with the water going thru my manifolds, thru the block, out the top and into the water jacketed exhaust by the time it exits its hot, ive been about 130* last time i went out. plus hot exhaust it doesnt cool down my exhaust much and im getting some discoloration... and i burned the crap out of my arm last time i touched it.

would something like this work? everything is 10-.

i just dont want to create some bottleneck... so ill tee off the pump water before the gate and run the water full blast out the exhaust... this should help keep things nice and cool right? or should i run a separate water pickup in the transom or ride plate instead of stealing water from the pump?

« **Reply #1 on:** June 07, 2011, 02:31:14 PM »

Negative Ghost Rider....it won't work well at all...

Reason; Water always takes the path of least resistance, so as the dynamics of flow change (from high volume to low) this thing will make you nuts.

It is my opinion that in this case the best fix is a thermostat kit...Not really to control the temperature of the engine (but cool bonus) but to increase the overall flow to the exhaust, like you are trying to do, but with some control as the water flows change....

GT

« **Reply #2 on:** June 07, 2011, 02:34:25 PM »

Quote from: GT Jets on June 07, 2011, 02:31:14 PM

Negative Ghost Rider....it won't work well at all...

Reason; Water always takes the path of least resistance, so as the dynamics of flow change (from high volume to low) this thing will make you nuts.

It is my opinion that in this case the best fix is a thermostat kit...Not really to control the temperature of the engine (but cool bonus) but to increase the overall flow to the exhaust, like you are trying to do, but with some control as the water flows change....

GT

thats kinda what i was worried about... high pressure on the cold line overpowering the exiting hot water from the engine, it takes priority and my hot water never exits the motor...

« **Reply #3 on:** June 07, 2011, 02:42:49 PM »

Exactly what I was thinking, and all that cold water directly on the pipes? I dunno. I have a burn scar on my left arm from Pickle, with logs and OT pipes, Burned myself on headers before, but nothing like this one!

I just learned they plain get hot! Logs are cool, pipes are HOT! Check!

Nature of the beast. But adding 65 degree water vs 130 degree water I don't think is gonna do much except potentially crack something.

Trying to wrap my head around how a thermostat is going to cool the pipes more......not catching that one......

Ray

« **Reply #4 on:** June 07, 2011, 02:49:18 PM »

Quote from: IRRebel on June 07, 2011, 02:42:49 PM

Exactly what I was thinking, and all that cold water directly on the pipes? I dunno. I have a burn scar on my left arm from Pickle, with logs and OT pipes, Burned myself on headers before, but nothing like this one!

I just learned they plain get hot! Logs are cool, pipes are HOT! Check! Nature of the beast. But adding 65 degree water vs 130 degree water I don't think is gonna do much except potentially crack something.

Trying to wrap my head around how a thermostat is going to cool the pipes more......not catching that one......

Ray

You're just going to have to trust me.....

The way thermostat kits work is they bypass any water that is not being used to cool the engine to the stat temp, so that bypassed water will go through the exhaust as cooler water, at least until the engine gets hot...The plus is, you can run more water through the whole deal, many times I see the gate valve about 90% open......

You should be able to rest your hand on the double walled portion of that exhaust pipe off the manifold....(Do it all the time.)..They should never really exceed 150*F..

It will work, I would stake my reputation on it...

GT

« **Reply #5 on:** June 07, 2011, 05:03:19 PM »

I run my header water off my incoming water line, NOT after it's been through the block. So far (4yrs) no negative results, when I put my thru transoms on I'm gonna do the same, AND I'm gonna run the dump cool down fittings off the incoming. No pressure build up in the block, don't know if it keeps shit any colder or not, but it's exhaust, it's GONNA get hot.

« **Reply #6 on:** June 10, 2011, 01:45:54 PM »

decided to go this route.

water comes in from pump, goes to a T:

#1 goes to gate valve, t's off to each side manifold, gets warmed up, goes into water inlet, goes thru block, comes out intake manifold hot, goes back to transom and dumps overboard.
#2 goes to t' and goes to exhaust riser, cold water + hot exhaust = slightly warm pipe, not HOT pipe.

now to take inventory of what i have and what i need...

« **Reply #7 on:** June 10, 2011, 03:27:40 PM »

Lol....draw another picture and show what they would look like polished.

If you need the fittings, I can Bring them home for ya

« **Reply #8 on:** June 10, 2011, 03:44:36 PM »

i need to pickup the following:

1 10- bulkhead tee on the run + nut
1 10- bulkhead straight + nut
1 10- 45* 1/2 NPT straight fitting
9 10- swivel hose end straight
1 10- tee
2 10- to 3/4" straight fitting

and a few feet of 10- hose. i think i have like 6' at home still. prolly need another 6'.

im getting rid of the chintzy copper tube pump water line and going thru the transom via bulkhead fittings.

« **Reply #9 on:** June 10, 2011, 06:48:56 PM »

Just to throw my opinion at you....Unsolicited....I don't like it.

Too many opportunities to screw something up...

Would rather see you add a t-stat kit and be done with it, it would be cheaper in the long run. Way less plumbing...

GT

« **Reply #10 on:** June 10, 2011, 07:01:48 PM »

Quote from: GT Jets on June 10, 2011, 06:48:56 PM

Just to throw my opinion at you....Unsolicited....I don't like it.

Too many opportunities to screw something up...

Would rather see you add a t-stat kit and be done with it, it would be cheaper in the long run. Way less plumbing...

GT

we'll see... worst case i tear it all apart again. haha.

« **Reply #11 on:** June 10, 2011, 07:06:41 PM »

Why the exit water to a dump? this is what I don't get. If you pump 130-140 degree water in there, or dump 60-65 degree water in there, not gonna make a helluva lot of difference.......I've been processing Glenns idea and more and more it makes some sense. Still gonna be hot as hell though!

Moos headers? Oh yeah! Them fuggers got HOT! The OT pipes on Pickle? Oh Yeah, found out, THEY GET HOT! I think Keith even warned me about that before I got burned by the mofos. The logs/snails that were on my Biesemeyer, yeah, they got pretty hot too........

As Skip said......it's 1400-2000 degree exhaust, its gonna get HOT! And you basically have OT pipes off logs, a little, well, more than a little fancier, but still, the physics apply.

Ray

« **Reply #12 on:** June 10, 2011, 07:22:39 PM »

Quote from: IRRebel on June 10, 2011, 07:06:41 PM

Why the exit water to a dump? this is what I don't get. If you pump 130-140 degree water in there, or dump 60-65 degree water in there, not gonna make a helluva lot of difference.......I've been processing Glenns idea and more and more it makes some sense. Still gonna be hot as hell though!

Moos headers? Oh yeah! Them fuggers got HOT! The OT pipes on Pickle? Oh Yeah, found out, THEY GET HOT! I think Keith even warned me about that before I got burned by the mofos. The logs/snails that were on my Biesemeyer, yeah, they got pretty hot too........

As Skip said......it's 1400-2000 degree exhaust, its gonna get HOT! And you basically have OT pipes off logs, a little, well, more than a little fancier, but still, the physics apply.

Ray

i was toying with the idea of welding a bung to the far end of the exhaust pipe near the transom to pipe the water to.

i think this and the thermostat do the same thing... oh well tomorrow morning im picking everything up.

« **Reply #13 on:** June 10, 2011, 07:39:08 PM »

I think you'll be fine with that setup, but keep this in mind, your exhaust is going to be hot, there's no getting around it. ;-)

« **Reply #14 on:** June 10, 2011, 07:49:45 PM »

You guys aren't getting that those header pipes he has are double jacketed, The ones on the old man's Crusader never get hot enough to burn a baby, maybe 120*....

The reason I don't like the drawing is because you have two completely different pressure drops there, Your engine will overheat like Hades at idle....

Just sayin'....How much water do you think a jet flows at idle?...Not much. Your set up should not work they way you drew it...

GT

« **Reply #15 on:** June 10, 2011, 07:54:02 PM »

Quote from: GT Jets on June 10, 2011, 07:49:45 PM

You guys aren't getting that those header pipes he has are double jacketed, The ones on the old man's Crusader never get hot enough to burn a baby, maybe 120*....

The reason I don't like the drawing is because you have two completely different pressure drops there, Your engine will overheat like Hades at idle....

Just sayin'....How much water do you think a jet flows at idle?...Not much. Your set up should not work they way you drew it...

GT

I don't think his pipes are jacketed at all.............

The center risers are, yes, ..........

Ray

« **Reply #16 on:** June 10, 2011, 08:04:02 PM »

Quote from: IRRebel on June 10, 2011, 07:54:02 PM

I don't think his pipes are jacketed at all.............

The center risers are, yes, ..........

Ray

That would be the part I am talking about, the riser section, not the lower pies he built, those will be much hotter, but still should be cool enough to not burn the rubber hoses...

GT

« **Reply #17 on:** June 10, 2011, 08:16:31 PM »

Quote from: GT Jets on June 10, 2011, 08:04:02 PM

That would be the part I am talking about, the riser section, not the lower pies he built, those will be much hotter, but still should be cool enough to not burn the rubber hoses...

GT

the jacketing stops at the first angle transition... you can clearly see the discoloration where the hot exhaust hits. the part i burnt my arm on was the riser itself...

i dont have any rubber hoses, its one solid piece out the back with a transom ring.

i dunno, i dont think im gonna know if its gonna work or not until i try it. worst case ill have plenty of fittings and hose to switch to a thermostat system.

« **Reply #18 on:** June 10, 2011, 08:26:31 PM »

Cover some of your pipe in header wrap. It will look bitchn hotrod....
http://www.summitracing.com/search/Part-Type/Exhaust-Wrap/

« **Reply #19 on:** June 10, 2011, 09:18:13 PM »

Your system was designed to run with a dedicated raw water pump. Whether the jet does the same thing I don't know. Here is Eddie Marine's plumbing schematic, and like GT said it always has a thermostat.

poverty

« **Reply #20 on:** June 10, 2011, 10:05:55 PM »

Quote from: povertyjet on June 10, 2011, 09:18:13 PM

Your system was designed to run with a dedicated raw water pump. Whether the jet does the same thing I don't know. Here is Eddie Marine's plumbing schematic, and like GT said it always has a thermostat.
(Attachment Link)

poverty

that schematic (on the lower EMI manifold side) has a pump feeding a crossover tube...

and then theres a bypass on the crossover tube that goes to the top of the thermostat that bypasses the engine altogether and goes to the manifold...

how is that any different than using cold water from my pump bypassing the cooling system, to a tee and then to the risers?

then a seperate system cooling the engine. instead of a thermostat, im using a gate valve to control flow for engine temp.

i do understand the "how much water do you think a jet pump pumps at idle" argument though. maybe ill have to step up to a water pump... do they make water pumps that will run off the rear? i dont really have room for a front mount if in fact the pump cant feed enough water.

« **Reply #21 on:** June 10, 2011, 10:30:54 PM »

Quote from: ka0tyk on June 10, 2011, 10:05:55 PM

that schematic (on the lower EMI manifold side) has a pump feeding a crossover tube...

and then theres a bypass on the crossover tube that goes to the top of the thermostat that bypasses the engine altogether and goes to the manifold...

how is that any different than using cold water from my pump bypassing the cooling system, to a tee and then to the risers?

then a seperate system cooling the engine. instead of a thermostat, im using a gate valve to control flow for engine temp.

i do understand the "how much water do you think a jet pump pumps at idle" argument though. maybe ill have to step up to a water pump... do they make water pumps that will run off the rear? i dont really have room for a front mount if in fact the pump cant feed enough water.

Please understand that I am really trying hard to point you in the right direction without condescending.

The reason what you drew will not work is because there is not enough pressure differential in the exhaust system to leave enough water volume to adequately cool the engine, your engine will over heat while running slower due to the lack of volume from the jet pump.

You do not need a raw water pump. Although an automotive type block pump would help, it is not needed...

Order up a #1800 Glenwood t-stat kit and you will be done.....You wont need a dump line, a pressure regulator, extra fittings ...Nada..

Trust me on this, You will not be able to invent a better wheel.

I am really not sure why your fighting this one so hard. This will work so bitchen it is almost silly...

edit; I should add, I am doing a small block like this right now....Pics to follow....

GT

« **Reply #22 on:** June 10, 2011, 10:41:09 PM »

I don't know if the volume of water from the jet matches that of the raw water pump. But in theory, I think your diagram may keep the riser cooler, but the pipe downstream from there will heat up pretty good and vaporize a lot of the water. At the end of the day the stainless pipes are probably going to be as hot as OT headers, and as long as they can't melt or ignite anything...

DON'T TOUCH THEM!!

« **Reply #23 on:** June 11, 2011, 02:03:50 AM »

I run the manifolds on a seperate line and dump the water overboard, this keeps them cool. Also if there are engine overheat problems it dosn't effect the manifolds.

« **Reply #24 on:** June 11, 2011, 09:33:13 AM »

Just to show you how simple this could be....

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GT

ka0tyk

GT Jets

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IRRebel

GT Jets

Luckie Stiff

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ka0tyk

GT Jets

ka0tyk

IRRebel

ka0tyk

Luckie Stiff

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IRRebel

GT Jets

ka0tyk

Your Mom

povertyjet

ka0tyk

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SS-201

GT Jets