Oil Cooler Options

« **on:** February 21, 2017, 01:14:13 PM »

I need to get my oil temps down in the Crazy Eights. I bought a used Dan Olsen oil cooler and was told it's junk. It would cost more to rebuild it than to buy a new one at $625.

I feel $625 is a bit steep for a new oil cooler, but in the grand scheme of things, neither is a new motor.

Should I just bite the $625 bullet or should I look into other options?

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« **Reply #1 on:** February 21, 2017, 01:29:57 PM »

Where do your temps run?

If memory serves, that motor had a windage issue. At least it did at Burley.

You don't need the surface area of a Dan Olsen. Just my two cents.

A small I/O one should do the trick.

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« **Reply #2 on:** February 21, 2017, 01:31:22 PM »

http://www.mrcool.us/806427t-mercruiser-engine-oil-cooler.html?gclid=Cj0KEQiA56_FBRDYpqGa2p_e1MgBEiQAVEZ6-9ttkTmDBRsYqojMeW27WSvr8P2jND-WdlMJKBhqICsaAluT8P8HAQ

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« **Reply #3 on:** February 21, 2017, 02:02:43 PM »

My gauge goes to 300 and it's pegged to the side of the gauge at the end of the race...Or even some spirited passes on the river.

Issue at Burley is a fluke where it was puking oil. I had a ton of other issues including a broken main bolt. Whole different motor now and it's still running hot as hell.

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« **Reply #4 on:** February 21, 2017, 02:51:59 PM »

Quote from: Brad @ SCJB on February 21, 2017, 02:02:43 PM

My gauge goes to 300 and it's pegged to the side of the gauge at the end of the race...Or even some spirited passes on the river.

Issue at Burley is a fluke where it was puking oil. I had a ton of other issues including a broken main bolt. Whole different motor now and it's still running hot as hell.

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Same oil pan? If you remember correctly, we pulled two quarts of oil and the temp dropped 80°. I distinctly remember the look on your face when we drained the oil out.

Lol

What oil pan, how many quarts and how does the tray fit?

Is the tray flat or curved?

What oil and weight and how much oil? Where is the temp sensor? Do you have any Lucas Oil Stabilizer in it?

I would be shocked if you needed a cooler. Not saying it's impossible, just saying 300°F points to something like aeration/foaming. That crank makes its own weather system in the pan.

Seen it 100 times.

GT

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« **Reply #5 on:** February 21, 2017, 03:00:39 PM »

Same pan...Same tray....Flat tray.

It's an armondos pan. Its listed as a 14 quart pan. We dyno'd at 12 quarts....And we were seeing oil pressure drops. Same at 13 quarts. Finally leveled off at 14 quarts.

Temp sensor is in the side of the pan, horizontal it's in the middle, vertically it's as low as possible.

No oil stabilizer used at this point.

Again, it's not puking oil like it was in Burley.

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« **Reply #6 on:** February 21, 2017, 03:53:36 PM »

Quote from: Brad @ SCJB on February 21, 2017, 03:00:39 PM

Same pan...Same tray....Flat tray.

It's an armondos pan. Its listed as a 14 quart pan. We dyno'd at 12 quarts....And we were seeing oil pressure drops. Same at 13 quarts. Finally leveled off at 14 quarts.

Temp sensor is in the side of the pan, horizontal it's in the middle, vertically it's as low as possible.

No oil stabilizer used at this point.

Again, it's not puking oil like it was in Burley.

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Pressure drops at 12 quarts? I find that shocking. That top end does not hold 3 gallons of oil.

Hate to say it, but something with that pan/tray combo is whack.

You should be able to run that deal at 8k with ten quarts, all day long.

I would put a call on to Armandos. Something is really wrong.

We ran a blown 514 in a day cruiser years ago with a 10 quart Stefs pan, oil ran 270-280 all the way across lake Shasta. Like 45 minutes. He was not running a oil cooler and the oil pressure never bobbled.

Let me think about this for a bit.

To me it sounds like a textbook foaming problem.

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« **Reply #7 on:** February 21, 2017, 05:46:32 PM »

Quote from: Brad @ SCJB on February 21, 2017, 03:00:39 PM

Same pan...Same tray....Flat tray.

It's an armondos pan. Its listed as a 14 quart pan. We dyno'd at 12 quarts....And we were seeing oil pressure drops. Same at 13 quarts. Finally leveled off at 14 quarts.

Temp sensor is in the side of the pan, horizontal it's in the middle, vertically it's as low as possible.

No oil stabilizer used at this point.

Again, it's not puking oil like it was in Burley.

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Damn that is a lot of oil. 14 quarts in a 14 quart pan? I have an armando pan on my stroker bbf, 10 quart pan and I only run 8. I know it isn't an apples to apples comparison since you drive the snot out of yours and I drive like a pussy in comparison, but just food for thought.

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« **Reply #8 on:** February 21, 2017, 07:32:00 PM »

Is this your pan Bubba?

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« **Reply #9 on:** February 21, 2017, 07:33:37 PM »

Not exactly but close enough.

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« **Reply #10 on:** February 21, 2017, 07:35:26 PM »

This is it

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« **Reply #11 on:** February 21, 2017, 08:03:53 PM »

And you are not running a block mounted tray, correct?

GT

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« **Reply #12 on:** February 21, 2017, 08:05:06 PM »

Quote from: GT Jets on February 21, 2017, 08:03:53 PM

And you are not running a block mounted tray, correct?

GT

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Correct

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« **Reply #13 on:** February 21, 2017, 08:05:30 PM »

Are you running a HV pump?

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« **Reply #14 on:** February 21, 2017, 08:06:20 PM »

Yessir. Melling HV.

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« **Reply #15 on:** February 21, 2017, 08:48:21 PM »

One more question. What pick up have you installed?

And I don't like HV pumps.

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« **Reply #16 on:** February 21, 2017, 08:54:35 PM »

It's the pickup that was designed for the pan. It feeds to the back of the pan since the pump is in the front. The pan you posted defines the path of the pickup in the tray a little more than the pic I posted of my actual pan.

Sorry you have ill feelings about HV pumps. Take that up with Paul Kane @ High Flow Dynamics.

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« **Reply #17 on:** February 21, 2017, 09:05:48 PM »

Quote from: Brad @ SCJB on February 21, 2017, 08:54:35 PM

It's the pickup that was designed for the pan. It feeds to the back of the pan since the pump is in the front. The pan you posted defines the path of the pickup in the tray a little more than the pic I posted of my actual pan.

Sorry you have ill feelings about HV pumps. Take that up with Paul Kane @ High Flow Dynamics.

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Yeah, I know... Lol

You should have seen the look on my machinists face when I took of the high volume pump off my marathon motor and threw it in the recycling bin right in front of him.

I thought he was going to punch me in the throat. Lmao

I can't help but think there is something bizarre going on. Having oil pressure fade with three gallons of oil in the sump is nuts. I need to think on it some more.

Did it get spun in at Westech?

GT

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« **Reply #18 on:** February 21, 2017, 09:09:25 PM »

Yessir, Westech.

« **Reply #19 on:** February 21, 2017, 09:26:45 PM »

Quote from: Brad @ SCJB on February 21, 2017, 09:09:25 PM

Yessir, Westech.

The engine was likely set up perfectly level. In a jet boat, this would be severely "nose down" and likely caused the oil pressure drop by creating a vortex at the rear of the pan where it would had the shallower oil level, because the pan is only seven and change in the rear but well over eight inches in the front, depth wise.

This is only theory, but I feel there is too much oil in the pan and your getting micro bubbles. This will heat the crap out of the oil in two ways. One, the aerated oil can't give up it's heat effectively and two, the friction of the oil getting the crap whipped out of it.

With the stroker crank and HV pump, I feel it's exacerbating the issue.

Then again, I could be completely full of shit..... I wish gn7 was still around, wouldn't mind bouncing some ideas off that crusty old fukker... I miss Bob.

GT

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« **Reply #20 on:** February 22, 2017, 12:13:39 AM »

So B-Rad.... Two more stupid questions.

What block are you using and have the lifters been restricted? Or at least restricted push rods? And how much oil pressure are you seeing and is the bypass in the pump stock?

GT

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« **Reply #21 on:** February 22, 2017, 01:08:54 AM »

625 for an oil cooler!!! Holy chit!! It amazes me what the after market can charge for boat parts!! Kinda makes you sick alil ,, I never saw what oil is being run brought up tho.. Maybe it isn't working with your setup.. Food for thought. Carry on gentleman..

your friendly local v-drive owner

« **Reply #22 on:** February 22, 2017, 04:22:16 AM »

From what I understand 385 series fords have major issues with flooding valve covers. Bush lifters and or restricted pushrods as well. The shop I worked at years ago did a BBC. Made a 505 out of it. Put it in the boat had a nice pan with a built in tray too. At about 3500 it lost oil pressure....Would do it on the trailer. Finally after a bunch of changes that did nothing. Pulled the pan and pulled the trick tray, installed a factory windage tray and no issues. The factory tray wraps around the oil pump. Good luck

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« **Reply #23 on:** February 22, 2017, 09:54:16 AM »

There is a huge difference between the windage tray in this pan

Quote from: GT Jets on February 21, 2017, 07:32:00 PM

Is this your pan Bubba?

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and this pan

Quote from: Brad @ SCJB on February 21, 2017, 07:35:26 PM

This is it

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IMHO, Brad, the windage tray you have is doing absolutely nothing. At best, it is providing only a slight restriction as the oil flows around the tray and into the spinning crankshaft. There may be a multitude of issues, but I don't think that pan is ideal for your application.

In regards to the HV oil pump, even the stock pump will operate in bypass unless something is consuming additional oil flow. An example would be, position squirters. It takes more horsepower to push the additional volume and the oil is being worked harder, so more heat is generated.

I'm not saying that these are the cause of your problems, but everything adds up.

« **Reply #24 on:** February 22, 2017, 10:50:30 AM »

Quote from: Flusher on February 22, 2017, 09:54:16 AM

There is a huge difference between the windage tray in this pan

and this pan

IMHO, Brad, the windage tray you have is doing absolutely nothing. At best, it is providing only a slight restriction as the oil flows around the tray and into the spinning crankshaft. There may be a multitude of issues, but I don't think that pan is ideal for your application.

In regards to the HV oil pump, even the stock pump will operate in bypass unless something is consuming additional oil flow. An example would be, position squirters. It takes more horsepower to push the additional volume and the oil is being worked harder, so more heat is generated.

I'm not saying that these are the cause of your problems, but everything adds up.

I'm so glad you see it too.

There is virtually no perimeter shielding on that pan. It's just sort of floating in the middle, the windage would come off the crank and funnel down the side of the pan. Basically making a frothy, foamy mess.

Personally, I would call Armandos and see about either pay to have him update your pan or maybe sell you a new tray, or maybe get another pan. I know it's an extra cost and a pain in the ass, but much cheaper and less of a pain in the ass than building another motor.

It's not right. I bet if you called Armando he would give you some insight. He's a one man show.

Hate to see you kill another motor because of a couple hundred bucks.

Your oil temp should run +/- 240°F for weeks at a time.

JMO

GT

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Brad @ SCJB

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