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maddogg20

  • Karma: +1/-0
Oil pressure problem
« on: May 22, 2009, 03:47:10 PM »
Hey guys quick question,

On A BBC at what PSI is the internal oil pressure relief supossed to start blowing off pressure? When I ran my engine the other day with 15w40 and 2 qts of 60 weight in it to break it in I was getting about 90 psi at idle and when i brought the rpm's up it would peg the gauge. I'm 99 percent that the gauge and sender are good becauswe they worked not too long ago when my friends engine was in the boat. Im going to change the oil and filter tomorrow and see what happens but if its too high still I may need to see if there is debris stuck in the relief passage or if its even servicable.  Any help and info would be much appreciated.

Andy
« Last Edit: May 22, 2009, 09:05:18 PM by maddogg20 »
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HDriderTH

  • Karma: +12/-0
Re: Oil pressure relief question
« Reply #1 on: May 22, 2009, 06:02:50 PM »
Oil "weights" do not mix, you pump 15-40 for a while then yop pump 60 for a while. Old fork oil trick, 30% 70wt 70% 30wt, the 30 goes thru fast and then slows for the 70. ANYWAY, the bypass at the filter bypasses the filter if it gets clogged.
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'82 Sanger Bubble deck, Blown 454....V-drive

maddogg20

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Oil pressure relief question
« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2009, 06:37:27 PM »
I thought that the engine has a built in bypass to protect the internals incase the pressure spikes.
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HDriderTH

  • Karma: +12/-0
Re: Oil pressure relief question
« Reply #3 on: May 22, 2009, 07:18:49 PM »
Nope, the only oil valve in the motor is where the filter screws on. Did you warm the engine up good? Mine does that too while it's cold, 20-50wt
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maddogg20

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Oil pressure relief question
« Reply #4 on: May 22, 2009, 07:29:23 PM »
yea I did, I even got it up to about 160 and it went down a lil but it was still wayyy up there. Im gonna try and change the oil and filter tomorrow and run 15-40 or maybe straight 40 weight, maybe even 30 lol. I don't know yet.
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maddogg20

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Re: Oil pressure relief question
« Reply #5 on: May 22, 2009, 07:54:22 PM »
I ordered the remote dual filter mount kit, but im still worried, I definitely dont wanna hurt the engine. What should I try?
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maddogg20

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Oil pressure relief question
« Reply #6 on: May 22, 2009, 07:57:34 PM »
BTW im running the M55HV pump. Thats the high volume one. I REALLY dont want to take the engine out and change the pump. Could debris or assy lube be stuck in the filter bypass and cause this? because im using the same oil and filter that i broke it in with.  Im running the tall K&N filter btw. Im wondering if that 60 weight could have thickened it up enough to cause this issue. lol im pulling my hair out because im supossed to go to mojave valley this coming thurs to get the boat wet for its first time.
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jet boat performance

  • Karma: +25/-0
Re: Oil pressure relief question
« Reply #7 on: May 22, 2009, 08:21:22 PM »
Hope I didn't miss this but the "simple test is to screw in a manual guage (to proof out) 90 in a bbc "cold" usually drops to 70 warm depending on oil and clearance . We use Torco 20 50 (dinosuar oil)  ;)
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HDriderTH

  • Karma: +12/-0
Re: Oil pressure relief question
« Reply #8 on: May 22, 2009, 08:34:39 PM »
I would change the filter and oil, install a mechanical gauge for test purposes I would NOT screw with a dual remote on a boat. I run three and a half gallons of oil so I just change it when it starts to change color.There is a difference between high volume and high pressure. A softer spring in oil pump will lower the oil pressure, but you should be able to run a pump out of the box. Are you SURE your clearences are right, bearings, rod side clearences? Have the rods been run in that motor before? Whats the story on the motor rebuild?
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'82 Sanger Bubble deck, Blown 454....V-drive

maddogg20

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Oil pressure relief question
« Reply #9 on: May 22, 2009, 08:35:53 PM »
im gonna probably get a mechanical gauge tomorrow and test it after an oil change. I got the temp up to about 160 on the hose and when it would come down to an idle it would be about 90PSI but anything above idle pegs the gauge and the gauge goes to 100PSI.
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maddogg20

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Oil pressure relief question
« Reply #10 on: May 22, 2009, 08:40:21 PM »
it wasnt actually rebuilt. When I got the engine it was a stock 454 with peanut port heads etc. I pulled the heads, put some 820's on it, put a new oil pump, pickup, pan, etc etc. The rotating assy was never touched. I was planning on rebuilding it but I could see a nice visible cross-hatch in the cylinders so I knew that it wasnt ran for that long. When I got the boat it would have normal oil pressures when I ran it on the trailer, but I never took it on the water before I pulled the engine. Im glad i didnt take it out tho because of the pickup being on the bottom of the pan and the block being full of sand lol.
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crewchief22

  • Karma: +66/-0
Re: Oil pressure relief question
« Reply #11 on: May 22, 2009, 08:54:41 PM »
I replied to your PM before reading this thread, so a couple of the questions I asked were answered here  ;D

Let us know what happens after the oil change.
  • Boat #1: '77 Hondo Pantera GT Jet
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"Racing is life!  Anything that happens before or after, is just waiting"    Steve McQueen

The problem with America is stupidity. I'm not saying there should be a capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?

maddogg20

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Oil pressure problem
« Reply #12 on: May 22, 2009, 09:06:54 PM »
ill most likely use another K&N lol because if the pressure is actually this high I dont wanna burst the filter like I have heard frams will do sometimes.
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IRRebel

  • Karma: +16/-0
Re: Oil pressure problem
« Reply #13 on: May 22, 2009, 11:26:44 PM »
Quote
I would NOT screw with a dual remote on a boat.

I'm running one Terry, and it dropped my oil pressure down to reasonable numbers as well, without having to change up on what oil I'm using?  ??? ??? I get it that it's more to have leaks with, and vibration and chit is a BEAR on a boat (Especially mine), but it worked, lol. Why don't you like them? and in my case, have you ever tried to find a filter that'll clear the stringer on a Ford??
(At least in the Moo boat, the Blue one clears a standard filter easily, ask Jeremy, lol he's changing it as we speak).

I love that guy, fixing everything and finding things on my boat, guess he had an excursion today with a bad dizzy cap and rotor and never got off the dock! (RJ's been running the hell outta that thing for weeks now with no issues, lol) Good thing it was in the front I guess, lol.......anyway......

Mounting location is everything on them. Mine is on my custom, one-off, never to be duplicated (because noone in their right mind would ever do it) engine sheild. Which is STILL not upholstered, guess I need to get off my ass and get it done, lol.

FWIW though, I also had oil pressure readings almost identical to Andy's, and yeah, completely fresh engine. (Was a treat taking the filter off when I installed the remotes, lemme tell you, that thing was SWOLLEN solid to the block. 2' pipe wrench!)

Ray
« Last Edit: May 22, 2009, 11:43:39 PM by IRRebel »
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"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways totally worn out shouting 'Holy Shit what a ride!"---Crewcheif22 AKA Keith

HDriderTH

  • Karma: +12/-0
Re: Oil pressure relief question
« Reply #14 on: May 22, 2009, 11:51:45 PM »
it wasnt actually rebuilt. When I got the engine it was a stock 454 with peanut port heads etc. I pulled the heads, put some 820's on it, put a new oil pump, pickup, pan, etc etc. The rotating assy was never touched. I was planning on rebuilding it but I could see a nice visible cross-hatch in the cylinders so I knew that it wasnt ran for that long. When I got the boat it would have normal oil pressures when I ran it on the trailer, but I never took it on the water before I pulled the engine. Im glad i didnt take it out tho because of the pickup being on the bottom of the pan and the block being full of sand lol.




Did he say sand?........................dude


Yea Ray, just a matter of more shit in the boat. I did say "I" wouldnt. I have run remotes in the past on stuff and have a dual on the shelf...just in case.
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IRRebel

  • Karma: +16/-0
Re: Oil pressure problem
« Reply #15 on: May 22, 2009, 11:57:11 PM »



Did he say sand?........................dude


Yeah he did, but in the water passages, Terry. It's in his other thread that I'm too tired and drunk to look for at the moment, lol.

Seems like he did a good job prepping the short block for the new heads and cam. And the Cam break in, engine install he had Omar there to help him. Proly to drink more beer, but still, Omar'd tell him he was focking up on something I would bet.

Ray
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"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways totally worn out shouting 'Holy Shit what a ride!"---Crewcheif22 AKA Keith

HDriderTH

  • Karma: +12/-0
Re: Oil pressure problem
« Reply #16 on: May 23, 2009, 12:01:05 AM »
I guess it's better than no oil pressure, right? Just get some good oil in it and warm it up you should be fine
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IRRebel

  • Karma: +16/-0
Re: Oil pressure problem
« Reply #17 on: May 23, 2009, 12:14:53 AM »
Lol yeah it is! I told Andy on the phone I was running VR1 straight 50 in the blue one, looks like he's going another route, which is fine, and to order the remote kit and if he didn't need it he could always return it. But it solved the Moo's excessive pressure problem. It went from a buried needle at idle to 70-80 PSI no matter the temp or rpm. I'm running basically the same pump he is, just the ferd version, M84.

I think the VR1 50 is what Jeremy is putting back in mine, (He found it was milkshaking a little more than I had ever seen, time for the new intake and carb, as I'm betting the water's getting in from the intake.)

Ray

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"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways totally worn out shouting 'Holy Shit what a ride!"---Crewcheif22 AKA Keith

LakesOnly

  • Karma: +15/-0
Re: Oil pressure relief question
« Reply #18 on: May 23, 2009, 12:59:18 AM »
On A BBC at what PSI is the internal oil pressure relief supossed to start blowing off pressure? When I ran my engine the other day with 15w40 and 2 qts of 60 weight in it to break it in I was getting about 90 psi at idle and when i brought the rpm's up it would peg the gauge.
Andy
it wasnt actually rebuilt. When I got the engine it was a stock 454...I pulled the heads, put some 820's on it, put a new oil pump, pickup, pan, etc etc. The rotating assy was never touched.
So you have a bone stock 454 with a high volume pump and two quarts of 60-wt oil added to your 15w-40?  Dude, your bypass IS blowing. Your 60-wt oil coctail is way too thick for the OEM clearances combined with HV pump.

Drop the oil and filter and go with 10w-40.

LO
« Last Edit: May 23, 2009, 01:02:39 AM by LakesOnly »
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GT Jets

  • Karma: +192/-0
Re: Oil pressure relief question
« Reply #19 on: May 23, 2009, 12:23:11 PM »
So you have a bone stock 454 with a high volume pump and two quarts of 60-wt oil added to your 15w-40?  Dude, your bypass IS blowing. Your 60-wt oil coctail is way too thick for the OEM clearances combined with HV pump.

Drop the oil and filter and go with 10w-40.

LO


X2, the oil pump bypass cannot bypass more than about 15% of its capable volume, you may as well have put some gear oil in that badboy, I like racing 30w or 40w max for a break in type scenario. (Thinner, not thicker)

Most oil pump bypasses use a 100#spring. FWIW, they can get stuck, I had an LS7 that loved to blow an oil filter off the block once in a while, a new oil pump fixed the problem.  ;)

GT 
  • Boat #1: 1992 Carrera 20.5 Elite (I/O bitches)
  • Boat #2: 19' Bubble deck Jet BBC Berkeley
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If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

Time to man up and yank it John!  :banghead:
Ray

obnoxious001

  • Karma: +4/-1
Re: Oil pressure relief question
« Reply #20 on: May 23, 2009, 04:21:41 PM »
BTW im running the M55HV pump. Thats the high volume one. I REALLY dont want to take the engine out and change the pump. Could debris or assy lube be stuck in the filter bypass and cause this? because im using the same oil and filter that i broke it in with.  Im running the tall K&N filter btw. Im wondering if that 60 weight could have thickened it up enough to cause this issue. lol im pulling my hair out because im supossed to go to mojave valley this coming thurs to get the boat wet for its first time.

I assume you meant you have a 77HV pump, 55 is the sbc version I believe.  Try draining the oil, put some straight 40 wt racing oil in it and see if that doesn't give you a little more acceptable cold oil pressure.  It's the oil pump pressure bypass spring that has an effect on oil pressure, not the filter bypass.
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maddogg20

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Oil pressure problem
« Reply #21 on: May 24, 2009, 11:20:48 AM »
hey guys, lol omar cruised over the other day and we got the engine nice and warm and drained the oil. The filter was another story lol I broke my oil filter wrench, rounded off the nut on the bottom of the K&N filter and ended up having to pound the biggest philips screw driver thru it a few times to get it off. I then refilled it with the VR1 straight 50 weight ( i couldn't for the life of me find VR1 straight 30 or 40, and I checked all over the place). WHen I ran the screw driver thru the filter it came out all nice and nasty lol. The oil coming out of the holes that I made in the filter was signifigantly darker than the oil that came out the drain plug. When I got her fired back up I still had the really high pressure, but it seemed to start coming down more than it did before, I saw it at about 90 at about 2k rpms which is alot better than it was before. The remote setup that I ordered should be here on tues but Im still not sure if i even want to install it until I get these pressures down. I wanted to try and run straight 40 weight to see if that helped but omar was telling me that his boat had the same problem pegging the gauge and what not but once he dropped it int he water and ran it around for a bit the pressure came down. Keep in mind that I got the engine up to about 160 and the pressure was still at 90. Any ideas guys?
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maddogg20

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Oil pressure problem
« Reply #22 on: May 24, 2009, 11:27:27 AM »
I have only been able to find valvoline straight 30 and 40 but its just normal valvoline, and I was under the impression that its bettere to run the VR1 or something similar due to the high zinc content since im running a hydraulic flat tappett cam. its called valvoline HD-30 and HD-40. is that stuff cool to run?
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GT Jets

  • Karma: +192/-0
Re: Oil pressure problem
« Reply #23 on: May 24, 2009, 11:29:01 AM »
hey guys, lol omar cruised over the other day and we got the engine nice and warm and drained the oil. The filter was another story lol I broke my oil filter wrench, rounded off the nut on the bottom of the K&N filter and ended up having to pound the biggest philips screw driver thru it a few times to get it off. I then refilled it with the VR1 straight 50 weight ( i couldn't for the life of me find VR1 straight 30 or 40, and I checked all over the place). WHen I ran the screw driver thru the filter it came out all nice and nasty lol. The oil coming out of the holes that I made in the filter was signifigantly darker than the oil that came out the drain plug. When I got her fired back up I still had the really high pressure, but it seemed to start coming down more than it did before, I saw it at about 90 at about 2k rpms which is alot better than it was before. The remote setup that I ordered should be here on tues but Im still not sure if i even want to install it until I get these pressures down. I wanted to try and run straight 40 weight to see if that helped but omar was telling me that his boat had the same problem pegging the gauge and what not but once he dropped it int he water and ran it around for a bit the pressure came down. Keep in mind that I got the engine up to about 160 and the pressure was still at 90. Any ideas guys?


Did you check it with a mechanical to double check your #'s?  :sly:

It sounds to me like you have a contamination issue if the oil filter held that much goo... :P

The 90# of pressure is about right for 50wt oil IMHO....You would probably see about 70 with 40wt...

GT
  • Boat #1: 1992 Carrera 20.5 Elite (I/O bitches)
  • Boat #2: 19' Bubble deck Jet BBC Berkeley
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If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

Time to man up and yank it John!  :banghead:
Ray

maddogg20

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Oil pressure problem
« Reply #24 on: May 24, 2009, 11:37:21 AM »
i didnt have a mechanical on hand. Im going to try it this week and see what happens. If I run it around and still have high pressure numbers Im probably going to try 40 or 30 weight even.
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