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Nordie

  • Karma: +13/-0
Prelim Questions!
« on: August 31, 2009, 05:42:31 PM »
Alright as i got thinking the other day while i was seeing chromey mad and frustrated i began thinking...might be time to go with the go ahead and maybe rebuild my junkyard 429...if this is the case im going to be wanting to make some hp...getting passed up by larger boats aint cool!

Sooo what i am wondering is should i keep it a 429?
should i stroke it?
if so im going to want to know good components good ford websites links are good

advice from
ralph brunt
lakesonly
dave a&d engines

im not chasing stupid amounts of hp 450 i think woulkd be a reasonable request

how easy is it to build a motor thats equivalent to cubic inches on a nordie budget....mind you i dont want to cut corners...

things i know i need to do is get into the motor and see if the crank has been cut, cylinder bore size...if the motor is worth rebuilding....find a machinest...should i get into the heads? d3ve's or should i use the c9's...i know i want a pump gas motor

this is just a prelim so dont get excited yet guys
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Ralph Brunt

  • Karma: +51/-0
Re: Prelim Questions!
« Reply #1 on: August 31, 2009, 06:17:24 PM »
i hate it when you start thinking :banghead: :sly:

dont open up that motor that runs great :screwy:

get a block crank and rods from lakes only and send it to dave at a&d open your wallet start spending money :D

450hp is easy with a 460, no need to stoke. the most important part is going to be the bottom end staying together..... (daves job ;))

let me know if i can help.

get block crank, rods and pistons for the c9's and send to dave
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CHEAP, FAST, RELIABLE...PICK 2 CANT HAVE ALL 3
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Glasscutter, Skip, OC2  Nordie and many more nail me good every time, relentlessly, I love those guys!

Luckie Stiff

  • Karma: +29/-0
Re: Prelim Questions!
« Reply #2 on: August 31, 2009, 06:19:14 PM »
dont open up that motor that runs great :screwy:

Exactly
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"Don't you realize that there are already enough people in the world to hate without you putting so much effort into giving me another?"

enginedoctor

  • Karma: +7/-0
Re: Prelim Questions!
« Reply #3 on: August 31, 2009, 06:40:06 PM »
Remember...U do not need to spend alot of $$.
2. Focus on  CID.   why 429  ???
3. Have sht checked out & make sure u have a sound foundation....It can be in-expensive.(based on your goals).


I agree with Ralph on this.... :thumbup:
  • Boat #1: 1970 Horizon Cheby powered Jet
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Nordie

  • Karma: +13/-0
Re: Prelim Questions!
« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2009, 06:56:42 PM »
Remember...U do not need to spend alot of $$.
2. Focus on  CID.   why 429  ???
3. Have sht checked out & make sure u have a sound foundation....It can be in-expensive.(based on your goals).


I agree with Ralph on this.... :thumbup:

429 is what is currently in the boat...was thinking of going through it this offseason...i mean im sure i can pick up a bottom end block all that and have it sent to you dave....when the time is right

ok ralphy you win on this one...i'll do a 460!

skip i wanna squeeze your man boobies
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electrowoman

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Prelim Questions!
« Reply #5 on: August 31, 2009, 07:45:24 PM »
I think you made a good choice on the 460.  I had a 1970 429 in my cv 23 for 2 years
before it broke a rod.   It was a stock short block from the junk yard with 21000 miles.

I heard the rumors they liked to break rods but I never ran over 4600 rpms so I went
with it.  I paid $50.00 for it, how times change....



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IRRebel

  • Karma: +16/-0
Re: Prelim Questions!
« Reply #6 on: August 31, 2009, 08:31:45 PM »
460 bottom ends are cheap and easy to find, Josh. I would start there. You already have the makings of a killer top end, so building a good, solid bottom end should be cheap at that target HP.  Your biggest expense may come in the form of the pistons, where you'll need to be careful with those C9's I think.

I would also keep the 429 as it is! If you want to run D3VE's I have the new ones from the Moo's original engine, very fresh, and still easily able to hit that target, I would have them dissasembled and cleaned only because of the shavings from the bearing failures.

Actually, that entire engine could be done very inexpesively, now that I think about it. At worst we'd be looking at a couple rods, pistons and possibly a crank, but the rest of the thing just needs flushed, cleaned and reassembled. Supposed to have a pretty good cam in it, but that would have to be verified. Thing only ran like 30 minutes after all the guy put into it.

Ray
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"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways totally worn out shouting 'Holy Shit what a ride!"---Crewcheif22 AKA Keith

OC2Vegas

  • Karma: +12/-0
Re: Prelim Questions!
« Reply #7 on: August 31, 2009, 08:36:49 PM »
Thing only ran like 30 minutes after all the guy put into it.

Thats because the boat was pissed off it was painted like a cow, it just could'nt go on any longer!  ;)

Josh, 450 should be very do able with a 460 (even for a ford). like Ray said you have some nice parts that will transfer over to a 460, I think you are already further along then you may think.
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IRRebel

  • Karma: +16/-0
Re: Prelim Questions!
« Reply #8 on: August 31, 2009, 08:49:26 PM »
Exactly. Those C9's you got from Charley are pretty fresh also, as I remember, and Paul should be able to tell you what you can or cannot get away with on the pistons to keep it in the 9-10:1 CR range using those heads. (Mines over 11, probably closer to 12, more than I'd like).

I honestly think though, you can hit the 450-500HP range easily enough with the d3ve's. Those C9's can be made to flow like a MoFo, hence their appeal, as well as the closed chamber design. Depends on which way you want to go with it really.

If all else fails, find a 460 blower intake. Got a Holley 8-71 sitting here!  ;D

Ray
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"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways totally worn out shouting 'Holy Shit what a ride!"---Crewcheif22 AKA Keith

LakesOnly

  • Karma: +15/-0
Re: Prelim Questions!
« Reply #9 on: September 01, 2009, 09:15:35 AM »
A 429 will run in a jet boat but between a 429 and a 460 I'll take the 460 almost every time, especially if you have an A impeller.

The main issue with the 429 is that there is only one set of forged shelf pistons available for them, the TRW/Speed-Pro L2366. Those pistons and D3's put you at about 8.75:1 c/r, and C9's will put you at about 10.5:1 c/r. They also weigh 1000+ grams with the pin.

If you switch to a 460 crankshaft (uses your same rods) you will have dozens of pistons options in dish, flat top, dome, etc. A 460 crank is the cheapest "+31 cubic inch stroker crank" out there for you, and you can run compression ratios pretty much wherever you want, from 8.5:1 to 13:1 with readily available shelf pistons. And 450hp is a walk in the park with these engines.

I have to agree that taking apart a good running engine is not always the greatest idea. Perhaps it might be better to keep it as a spare and build another longblock and can transfer the bolt-ons (pan, induction, distributor, exh, etc) between the two. Sounds like you already have some C9 heads. I have blocks cranks rods, heads, etc, stock, modified, if you want anything. Feel free to call.

LO

p.s.: If you want more power out of your current engine, you might swap the D3VE's out for the C9VE's (if that's your current combo). There is more to this than just the swap (valve train) but if you are considering it I'll get into greater detail.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2009, 09:18:41 AM by LakesOnly »
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Nordie

  • Karma: +13/-0
Re: Prelim Questions!
« Reply #10 on: September 01, 2009, 02:42:30 PM »
yes c9 heads have a different geometry to them where the d3 stuff will not work! yeah the heads look pretty fresh [c9ve] heads...they have valves springs...however since the springs are unknown i know i wont be running them...the heads are there so i may as well use them on the 460 build correct? i can get pistons to work the c/r out so i can be pump gas at what around 10.5 to 1?
also have the heads and know flow caracteristics i should be able to find a cam that will really work well with the heads...im sure i could have them massaged to work even better but still...intake i would be using is a weiand stealth...it just seems to me that i have a hard time finding websites that would let me look at rotating assemblies and see what would work best...i know that a forged piston will be going in there, and i am sure that dave (a & d engines) would be able to put the motor at good marine clearances...i will be in touch with people as time progresses and i can get started on this...im sure cam would be hydraulic flat tappit but probably roller rockers since i gotta buy rockers anyway!
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Brad @ SCJB

  • Karma: +255/-0
Re: Prelim Questions!
« Reply #11 on: September 01, 2009, 02:52:29 PM »
leave your god damn motor alone!

if you want to build something bigger/better/faster....start from scratch. youre better off that way if you dont finish before next spring, you still have a running motor.
  • Boat #1: 1978 Liberty
  • Boat #2: 1982 Eliminator Sprint
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Nordie

  • Karma: +13/-0
Re: Prelim Questions!
« Reply #12 on: September 01, 2009, 04:04:35 PM »
leave your god damn motor alone!

if you want to build something bigger/better/faster....start from scratch. youre better off that way if you dont finish before next spring, you still have a running motor.

This motor will stay together and i will start a new motor project...
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CHROMEY

  • Karma: +33/-0
Re: Prelim Questions!
« Reply #13 on: September 01, 2009, 05:07:55 PM »
YA! keep asking questions josh, im taking notes! i got to do this too.... :D
  • Boat #1: 78 Omega California openbow miniday 22ft.-broken
  • Boat #2: 2004 Chevy Avalanche Crewcab
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**livin la vida loca in las vegas......
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Nordie

  • Karma: +13/-0
Re: Prelim Questions!
« Reply #14 on: September 01, 2009, 05:30:26 PM »
If it helps any chromey im going to do the whole buy a block rotating assembly and all that and its going to end up in daves hands...i hear the overwhelming confidence that people have in him and his tedious work! my dad had a motor built down here and everything went to shit...i dont think there is a machine shop i could trust down here...as much as we all goto california i will have something dropped off to him...
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76NORDIC

  • Karma: +23/-0
Re: Prelim Questions!
« Reply #15 on: September 01, 2009, 05:32:10 PM »
Nordie you wwont be disappointed ;)
  • Boat #1: 76 Nordic BBF 460 Jet
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The definition of insanity: Doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting different results.....Einstein

I refuse to call people an ass anymore. It insults hard working donkeys worldwide!

Nordie

  • Karma: +13/-0
Re: Prelim Questions!
« Reply #16 on: September 01, 2009, 05:38:40 PM »
after calling you nancy boy and all that you arent allowed to touch the motor either....however seeing what you do to ralph you can touch something else  O0
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76NORDIC

  • Karma: +23/-0
Re: Prelim Questions!
« Reply #17 on: September 01, 2009, 05:40:12 PM »
Dang another frickin homo ;)
  • Boat #1: 76 Nordic BBF 460 Jet
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The definition of insanity: Doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting different results.....Einstein

I refuse to call people an ass anymore. It insults hard working donkeys worldwide!

Ralph Brunt

  • Karma: +51/-0
Re: Prelim Questions!
« Reply #18 on: September 01, 2009, 06:12:06 PM »
after calling you nancy boy and all that you arent allowed to touch the motor either....however seeing what you do to ralph you can touch something else  O0
once 76 takes care of you, you will let him do what ever he wants to you assy, i mean eng :-[ :D
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CHEAP, FAST, RELIABLE...PICK 2 CANT HAVE ALL 3
Quote
They are all fukin tasty. My long time favorite, "Dirty Dicks -beerjet-
Glasscutter, Skip, OC2  Nordie and many more nail me good every time, relentlessly, I love those guys!

IRRebel

  • Karma: +16/-0
Re: Prelim Questions!
« Reply #19 on: September 01, 2009, 06:56:24 PM »
According to a pic I recently saw on here, '76 apparently knows his way around a crank, uses both hands pretty effectively, got the face into the action, even from an office chair pretty readily, soooo who's gaying up the thread?  ;D Also seems to have a clown fetish, I dunno................

I think I've figured out the Nancy Boy thing, but will wait until everyone else catches it, lol.

Ray

Mark, we're just ridin yah. HARD! YES!, lol. Could be more serious, like if Omar was in on it, THEN I'd worry.
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"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways totally worn out shouting 'Holy Shit what a ride!"---Crewcheif22 AKA Keith

Nordie

  • Karma: +13/-0
Re: Prelim Questions!
« Reply #20 on: September 01, 2009, 06:59:15 PM »
i did it again i jacked my own thread!

According to a pic I recently saw on here, '76 apparently knows his way around a crank, uses both hands pretty effectively, got the face into the action, even from an office chair pretty readily, soooo who's gaying up the thread?  ;D Also seems to have a clown fetish, I dunno................

I think I've figured out the Nancy Boy thing, but will wait until everyone else catches it, lol.

Ray

Mark, we're just ridin yah. HARD! YES!,  lol. Could be more serious, like if Omar was in on it, THEN I'd worry.

does anyone see a sig line in this?
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OC2Vegas

  • Karma: +12/-0
Re: Prelim Questions!
« Reply #21 on: September 01, 2009, 07:00:30 PM »
I think it might be time to bring back the way SCJB looked on April fools a while back. Some of these guys might feel a little more at home  :sly:
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Nordie

  • Karma: +13/-0
Re: Prelim Questions!
« Reply #22 on: September 01, 2009, 07:00:42 PM »
ok back on topic...

for now im on the hunt for block...crank...rods...pistons...bearin gs...basically a shortblock correct?
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OC2Vegas

  • Karma: +12/-0
Re: Prelim Questions!
« Reply #23 on: September 01, 2009, 07:07:31 PM »
ok back on topic...

for now im on the hunt for block...crank...rods...pistons...bearin gs...basically a shortblock correct?

shortblock, correct
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Nordie

  • Karma: +13/-0
Re: Prelim Questions!
« Reply #24 on: September 01, 2009, 07:11:07 PM »
dont flatter yourself jeremy i knew that...just wondering if im going parts n pieces or see whats available ya know? i kinda crenge at the fact that im going to build a bbf before a bbc but...thats what the hiti's got so i'll run with it!
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