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Getr wet

  • Karma: +0/-0
Reversion
« on: March 12, 2014, 09:44:09 PM »
I just rebuilt my 454 blower motor and changed my EMI to Lighting headers. I blew up the last one due to what I think was reversion. I am not sure what all I have in this motor regards to cam size. Has anyone ran a T off the thermostat housing to the headers and one for a dump with a ball valve to combat reversion. If so what do I need to know when doing this. Thank you in advance....
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Re: Reversion
« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2014, 09:46:52 PM »
I just rebuilt my 454 blower motor and changed my EMI to Lighting headers. I blew up the last one due to what I think was reversion. I am not sure what all I have in this motor regards to cam size. Has anyone ran a T off the thermostat housing to the headers and one for a dump with a ball valve to combat reversion. If so what do I need to know when doing this. Thank you in advance....

Stupid question, but if you have a blower, how did reversion kill it?

Got a picture of your set up?

GT
  • Boat #1: 1992 Carrera 20.5 Elite (I/O bitches)
  • Boat #2: 19' Bubble deck Jet BBC Berkeley
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If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

Time to man up and yank it John!  :banghead:
Ray

jamiemwedmore1234

  • Karma: +10/-0
Re: Reversion
« Reply #2 on: March 12, 2014, 09:47:24 PM »

I just rebuilt my 454 blower motor and changed my EMI to Lighting headers. I blew up the last one due to what I think was reversion. I am not sure what all I have in this motor regards to cam size. Has anyone ran a T off the thermostat housing to the headers and one for a dump with a ball valve to combat reversion. If so what do I need to know when doing this. Thank you in advance....
no tee but when I had my lighting headers made I had the exaust portion extended for revision


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jamiemwedmore1234

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Re: Reversion
« Reply #3 on: March 12, 2014, 09:49:47 PM »
Don't now what yours look like but here's mine hope this helps


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Getr wet

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Re: Reversion
« Reply #4 on: March 13, 2014, 07:33:47 PM »
Well I am no motor head but what I have read due to the cam and your lob on the exhaust side does not close in time and sucks water back through your exhaust. I heard if you run less water through the exhaust it will lessen the chance of reversion if you have the wrong cam. I seen one boat in the performance boat magazine that had a jet with a T set up coming off the thermostat housing. If this is a stupid questions I am just trying to get info to save my butt so my wife doesn't get pissed because we're not on the water... Cheers ....
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jamiemwedmore1234

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Re: Reversion
« Reply #5 on: March 13, 2014, 08:13:18 PM »

Well I am no motor head but what I have read due to the cam and your lob on the exhaust side does not close in time and sucks water back through your exhaust. I heard if you run less water through the exhaust it will lessen the chance of reversion if you have the wrong cam. I seen one boat in the performance boat magazine that had a jet with a T set up coming off the thermostat housing. If this is a stupid questions I am just trying to get info to save my butt so my wife doesn't get pissed because we're not on the water... Cheers ....
I hear you but I would be worried about burning up exhaust hoses by restricting the water I ordered my headers through lighting with the tip extended just for the revision   Probably not answering your question    And all the water entering my motor leaves through my exhaust     


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Re: Reversion
« Reply #6 on: March 13, 2014, 09:03:41 PM »
Not trying to be a dick, but the blower should eliminate any reversion issues.

Was the motor blown when you puked it the first time?

What causes inversion is the "pulse" in the exhaust system due to the valves being open at the same time (called overlap). With a blower, this pulse is virtually eliminated because you are moving air into the engine instead of the engine having to "pull" the air into the engine. I have yet to see a blown engine have issues with reversion, but that being said, I have not seen it all, not by a long shot.

Also to add, less water in the exhaust has little to do with reversion if the headers you are talking about are through transom. Is the water going to your headers lake temp, or from the outlet of the engine? Yes, it matters.

All this being said, you system should be considered complex and there is no real canned answer.

I hope this helps steer you in the the right direction.

GT
  • Boat #1: 1992 Carrera 20.5 Elite (I/O bitches)
  • Boat #2: 19' Bubble deck Jet BBC Berkeley
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If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

Time to man up and yank it John!  :banghead:
Ray

beerjet

  • Karma: +81/-0
Re: Reversion
« Reply #7 on: March 13, 2014, 10:49:47 PM »
Leaky lightning.....
That's the only way I can see water causing damage to a motor....
Think about how far water has to travel from the exit end of a lightning header.....
Reversion is a problem more associated with Bassett/Rewarder type headers where the water is being injected (for cooling the primaries) damn near right at the exhaust port.
And all your over board water should exit through the exhaust.


-beerjet-
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Ecm101

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Reversion
« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2014, 01:56:50 PM »
Are you saying that there isn't a T at the thermostat? And all of your engines "puke" water is being delivered to your headers?


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beerjet

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Re: Reversion
« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2014, 04:01:30 PM »
Are you saying that there isn't a T at the thermostat? And all of your engines "puke" water is being delivered to your headers?


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On a lightning type exhaust, it would split (either at the the thermostat housing or after) exciting your motor, fill the headers and out the back.

-beerjet-

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Ecm101

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Re: Reversion
« Reply #10 on: March 15, 2014, 04:38:47 PM »

On a lightning type exhaust, it would split (either at the the thermostat housing or after) exciting your motor, fill the headers and out the back.

-beerjet-


I was just asking if there was a split, or if all of the exiting water was going straight to the headers, which is wrong, no matter what header system is installed..... I'm sure it's common knowledge that one exit should go straight to the piss hole and the other to the headers...... Otherwise, from what I got from the original post, it sounds like there is only one water exit at the top and it is going straight to the headers, in which all of the water pressure to the motor is the same pressure to the headers that would cause way too much water to the headers and would cause reversion.... I may have read it wrong but there shouldn't be any water to the headers under 2500-3000 rpm..... If it is going directly there, it would cause a big problem


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beerjet

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Re: Reversion
« Reply #11 on: March 15, 2014, 04:41:01 PM »

I was just asking if there was a split, or if all of the exiting water was going straight to the headers, which is wrong, no matter what header system is installed..... I'm sure it's common knowledge that one exit should go straight to the piss hole and the other to the headers...... Otherwise, from what I got from the original post, it sounds like there is only one water exit at the top and it is going straight to the headers, in which all of the water pressure to the motor is the same pressure to the headers that would cause way too much water to the headers and would cause reversion.... I may have read it wrong but there shouldn't be any water to the headers under 2500-3000 rpm..... If it is going directly there, it would cause a big problem


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He's running lightning headers....

-beerjet-

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Ecm101

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Re: Reversion
« Reply #12 on: March 15, 2014, 04:59:49 PM »
Ok, do they work different than standard over transom headers? I don't know... But I can't imagine any header system that could take the entire exit pressure of the cooling system, without a piss hole..... Like I said, I may have read it wrong but it sounds like everything exits directly to the headers without the pressure release of the piss hole.... I say piss hole cuz that's all I know it to be... The actual direct discharge of the engine cooling system


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Ecm101

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Re: Reversion
« Reply #13 on: March 15, 2014, 05:30:15 PM »
All tech bullshit aside..... I just met a chick that has NEVER been to the river!!!! How fucked up is that? She's never experienced life!!!!


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Re: Reversion
« Reply #14 on: March 15, 2014, 07:50:12 PM »
Ok, do they work different than standard over transom headers? I don't know... But I can't imagine any header system that could take the entire exit pressure of the cooling system, without a piss hole..... Like I said, I may have read it wrong but it sounds like everything exits directly to the headers without the pressure release of the piss hole.... I say piss hole cuz that's all I know it to be... The actual direct discharge of the engine cooling system


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They work almost exactly like exhaust manifolds on an I/O and yes, 100% of the water exits via the exhaust...

All tech bullshit aside..... I just met a chick that has NEVER been to the river!!!! How fucked up is that? She's never experienced life!!!!


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Bet there is an big offshore boat in the family somewhere... ;)
  • Boat #1: 1992 Carrera 20.5 Elite (I/O bitches)
  • Boat #2: 19' Bubble deck Jet BBC Berkeley
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If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

Time to man up and yank it John!  :banghead:
Ray

jamiemwedmore1234

  • Karma: +10/-0
Re: Reversion
« Reply #15 on: March 15, 2014, 08:01:32 PM »


I was just asking if there was a split, or if all of the exiting water was going straight to the headers, which is wrong, no matter what header system is installed..... I'm sure it's common knowledge that one exit should go straight to the piss hole and the other to the headers...... Otherwise, from what I got from the original post, it sounds like there is only one water exit at the top and it is going straight to the headers, in which all of the water pressure to the motor is the same pressure to the headers that would cause way too much water to the headers and would cause reversion.... I may have read it wrong but there shouldn't be any water to the headers under 2500-3000 rpm..... If it is going directly there, it would cause a big problem


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all the water that enters my motor leaves through my exhaust I have a decent size cam and have not had any signs of revision yet   And I've used my boat all last season   Don't no what else to tell you    Call lighting direct. He'll tell you the same thing on another note if you didn't order your headers with revision in mind you could have a problem. My headers were ordered for a big cam through lighting in lake Elsinore   


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jamiemwedmore1234

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Re: Reversion
« Reply #16 on: March 15, 2014, 08:07:36 PM »

Well I am no motor head but what I have read due to the cam and your lob on the exhaust side does not close in time and sucks water back through your exhaust. I heard if you run less water through the exhaust it will lessen the chance of reversion if you have the wrong cam. I seen one boat in the performance boat magazine that had a jet with a T set up coming off the thermostat housing. If this is a stupid questions I am just trying to get info to save my butt so my wife doesn't get pissed because we're not on the water... Cheers ....
cant tell from your pic but here's an up close pic. My tail pipe extends out proud a solid 1" past where the water  exits that 1" must make the difference I personally couldn't tell you  hope this helps


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Ecm101

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Re: Reversion
« Reply #17 on: March 15, 2014, 09:44:23 PM »
Ok well I stand corrected, it just seems crazy to me to be pumping water to the headers that much but hey... If that's the way it works then idfk..... Personally I quit running water to mine, if they get blue, they do


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Re: Reversion
« Reply #18 on: March 15, 2014, 09:55:22 PM »
Ok well I stand corrected, it just seems crazy to me to be pumping water to the headers that much but hey... If that's the way it works then idfk..... Personally I quit running water to mine, if they get blue, they do


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These are through transom jacketed headers.... If you shut the water off to them, the boat sinks... You need to get out more... ;)
  • Boat #1: 1992 Carrera 20.5 Elite (I/O bitches)
  • Boat #2: 19' Bubble deck Jet BBC Berkeley
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If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

Time to man up and yank it John!  :banghead:
Ray

beerjet

  • Karma: +81/-0
Re: Reversion
« Reply #19 on: March 15, 2014, 10:04:46 PM »
These are through transom jacketed headers.... If you shut the water off to them, the boat sinks... You need to get out more... ;)
Ecm is referring to OT's which have almost no water running to them.

-beerjet-

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  • Karma: +192/-0
Re: Reversion
« Reply #20 on: March 15, 2014, 10:08:19 PM »
Ecm is referring to OT's which have almost no water running to them.

-beerjet-

ECM has referred to OT headers three times in the same thread, I was just clarifying that these were eldifferento...  ;)

Learning spanglish as a second language... Howd' I do?

GT
  • Boat #1: 1992 Carrera 20.5 Elite (I/O bitches)
  • Boat #2: 19' Bubble deck Jet BBC Berkeley
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If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

Time to man up and yank it John!  :banghead:
Ray

beerjet

  • Karma: +81/-0
Re: Reversion
« Reply #21 on: March 15, 2014, 10:11:22 PM »
ECM has referred to OT headers three times in the same thread, I was just clarifying that these were eldifferento...  ;)

Learning spanglish as a second language... Howd' I do?

GT

Ha ha ha!
Pretty-fuckin-good !

-beerjet-

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herrhauptman

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Re: Reversion
« Reply #22 on: March 16, 2014, 05:52:23 AM »
Hello, I want to offer my two cents' worth.  I have seen a lot of cooling system setups, and most often people overlook the volume and pressure that a jet pump is capable of.  If the cooling system is not plumbed properly, it leads to all sorts of problems.  I know with my own outfit, I run a thermostat, and I regulate my cooling water to be no more than 20 P.S.I.  Also, I regulate the water going into the headers, so that there is barely any visible steam.  This works, and has been working for 20 years.  Another important thing to remember is that when you shut off, there should be no water in the exhaust system. How you achieve this, is up to you, but it will work, and regulate the engine temperatures properly, without fluctuating up and down, or getting water into the engine itself. I hope this helps.
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Re: Reversion
« Reply #23 on: March 16, 2014, 10:51:49 AM »
Hello, I want to offer my two cents' worth.  I have seen a lot of cooling system setups, and most often people overlook the volume and pressure that a jet pump is capable of.  If the cooling system is not plumbed properly, it leads to all sorts of problems.  I know with my own outfit, I run a thermostat, and I regulate my cooling water to be no more than 20 P.S.I.  Also, I regulate the water going into the headers, so that there is barely any visible steam.  This works, and has been working for 20 years.  Another important thing to remember is that when you shut off, there should be no water in the exhaust system. How you achieve this, is up to you, but it will work, and regulate the engine temperatures properly, without fluctuating up and down, or getting water into the engine itself. I hope this helps.

Not getting into this one again, but how are you regulating the block pressure?

Also, to add, I have five reasons that the thermostat kits do not do what you think they do... Lets just say I am not a fan.
  • Boat #1: 1992 Carrera 20.5 Elite (I/O bitches)
  • Boat #2: 19' Bubble deck Jet BBC Berkeley
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If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

Time to man up and yank it John!  :banghead:
Ray

Ecm101

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Reversion
« Reply #24 on: March 16, 2014, 03:32:08 PM »
I've seen the regulated pressure valves, they pretty much regulate the pressure straight out of the jet with a bypass hose that goes straight from the valve to a piss hole out the back I think, I don't run one mine is just the good old gate valve at the jet... I've also seen the billet thermostat housings with like 9 hoses coming out of it, don't quite understand the purpose of all of that...... But back to the original topic, I've never seen the lightening set up in depth I guess.... Learn something new everyday


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