If you want a popularity contest, keep the poll; if you want a friendly debate, kill it.
...based on parts availability price to build and base power I am all Chevy."BASE" power comes easier with the Ford 460 and costs less than a 454 specifically for that reason. Stock parts plus nothing more than an aftermarket cam kit can net 500HP NA if you really know what you are doing. The chebby will require a greater number of aftermarket parts to get there and anywhere above.
I dont see hardly any 460 parts in summit or Jegs and when I do come across them they usually cost more.1) It's a chebby world and advertising costs a lot of money. Why spend big bucks advertising Ford 460 parts when the majority of your sales are going to be 454 chebby parts? This is why you don't see the Ford parts listed...but the fact remains that there plenty of aftermarket Ford 460 pistons (Probe, Ross, Diamond, Speed-Pro, Venolia, BRC, JE, SRP, etc) just like chebby. Same with rods (SCAT, Eagle, CAT, Oliver, Carillo, Crower, any aluminum, etc), forged and cast steel crankshafts (american and/or offshore), blocks (OEM, Ford Motorpsort, C&C, Eliminator [5 versions]), any flat tappet, roller, billet cam you can dream up, over 25 different aftermarket aluminum head options, etc. Pushrods, bearings, gaskets, valve covers, rocker arms and studs, whatever, it's all out there. 2) And the bottom line cost of using those parts for a given HP number ain't no more than a 454.
Same with passenger vehicles. Go to AutoZone or Napa and ask for a 350 waterpump he will go grab one and ask for around $45.00. Now ask for a 351 waterpump he will probably have to order it and its at least 40% more.I don't purport to be a Ford guy as much as I am a 460 enthusiast so I wouldn;t know about small block parts. Besides, this is a boat forum where we use big blocks. With that in mind, waterpumps, oil pumps, gaskets, etc for the big blocks seem to be priced about the same to me...certainly not a difference enough to complain about...all brand auto parts have different prices and I bet you'll find part A or Part B being more for a Chebby or visa versa, depening on what you're looking at.
In the threads I read alot of 460 issues and I have hauled in alot of 460's off the lake and only a few 454's.460-specific issues or common V8 engine problem issues where the 460 guys is inquiring rather than dropping his boat off at the shop and having somebody else repair it?
Also 460's are 2 bolt main'sYeah, and they have been known to sustain 1800HP. Try that with your lower nickel content 454 chebby block...just be sure to be wearing a bullet proof vest and a face shield before you dare attempt such a thing.
Chevy parts are everywhere, if the boat breaks down I can crawl under the hood of a ? 1976 Nova 4 door ? and odds are that I can use almost anything under that hood to get me home.HUH? 460 carbed engines have virtually 100% parts interchangability, unlike 454 Gen 1, Mark IV, Gen this or Mark that.
Chevy's are cheaper to build and easier to build - but are they? What If I want to build a Chevy 540 ci stroker motor? I have to clearance the block, I have to use a tall deck block, maybe even some re-configuring on the valvetrain... On a 460 Ford the valve train/cam location is not an issue, the block will almost never have to be clearanced (from what I've overheard), better and better...Yeah, and you can manage a 540 cube BBF with ALL stock FoMoCo parts.
So I guess if I want to build a reliable, cheap (parts), everyday duty or semi-hot engine for my jet boat I'll go Chevy.More HP potential with the Ford; see my reply in the post above.
... The "Rootin Tootin Rasberry" With a FORD ! You should get poked in the butt for even thinkin such a thing .Shame on you . >:(
-beerjet-
...important things to me are haveing the oil pickup in back , and the distributor in the back out of the way...Dude, what if the motor is in a v-drive???
As far as price goes between ford and chevy "YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR" and that goes for everything in life! ;D
I grew up in love with Mustangs. Owned a couple Mach I's as a teen. I learned everything I know about engines from various Fords. After all that, I have nothing against Chebbys. I just go with what I know.I grew up the same way , nothing but chevy's and also have nothing bad to say about fords . I'm definatly going to have to get my hands on a ford one day and pop my cherry .
instead of tech facts :-\Tech-nically your wrong . See , I just said tech . So your wrong .
ok i think this thread has offically turned into a popularity contest, instead of tech facts :-\
Keeping in mind that BBF's are significantly cheaper to build a big stroker motor out of, what tech facts are you interested in?i have all the facts i need, that being said it's just personal preferance and what i know
For CHEAP HORSEPOWER,its FORD!!!!!! 514,533,or 557" easily available in any block, most 70s blocks will bore .080 or more! minimal to NO grinding to clear anything in the crankcase, cast steel Scat or Eagle kit is cheap! No cam interference problems,tall deck height,(6.7 or 6.8 rods fit easily), front oil sump easier to fit into boat,the "small port" heads out flow a BBC oval port head, (intake side)and you can put in big valves(and not necessarily 460 or other BBF valves either, hint,hint), they also have a 1.73 rocker ratio. Heads and blocks are cheaper, ARP main studs will work fine in a 2 bolt block (factory stuff) to 600 HP easily,(you MUST line hone it!),timing is more stable with dist in front(for those of you that don't use crank triggers), a larger dist gear means more stable timing too. The oiling system needs work by someone that knows what it needs, we charge about $60.00 for those mods.The Ford "Blue grommet" ignition box will operate UNDER WATER! and its spark output is great, we use it for our less than maximum effort boat motors, of any brand,and it will trigger from any bodys electronic distributor. For 500-650 HP Ford has the best bang for the buck. I have run and build all of the motors through the years, including hi-perf stroker 540+" Cadillacs! I would never take out a Ford to put in a Chevy. Look for a Ford engine tell all article in Hotboat early next year. I personally have no brand preferences, you can make anything RUN!! We have done Studebaker/Avanti motors as well as Hudson Hornets,409 Chevys and believe it or not, a fair share of hot rod forklift motors! It is just physics and air flow. LET THE S--TSTORM BEGIN!!!! TIMINATORhe-he-he ;)
I'd like to see statistics on who's acrross the finish line first the most... ;)this isnt factual, but if you think about the percent of chevy vs others
this isnt factual, but if you think about the percent of chevy vs others
80%chev
10%ford
5%mopar
5%other
what do you think happens when you play the average.
sorry to get off topic
Well in the Nostalgia Jet Class there are two Big Bad Fords leading the points out of 6 boats and one will be Region 12 Nostalgia Jet Champion for 2007. Now no Chevy can say that !Very true . Consistancy is where it's at . There is always next year . >:D
Well in the Nostalgia Jet Class there are two Big Bad Fords leading the points out of 6 boats and one will be Region 12 Nostalgia Jet Champion for 2007. Now no Chevy can say that !
Back with more facts: 454 rod ratio=1.534 460=1.716, Ford can allways have a longer rod due to the taller deck, Ford taller deck gives wider intake manafold with longer runners = more torque/midrange, but can be compensated for with larger runners for more top end, also has lesser runner angle. Chevy bore size = 4.250, Ford bore size = 4.360, that extra .110 gives less valve shrouding for better air flow, also the combustion chamber on the Chevy is about .600 WIDER than the bore! That causes major shrouding and less airflow/horsepower. There are ways around most everything, moral of the story, build what you have or want. It is a personal decision. I have a bunch of Chevys, but thats what my boats came with, except the one with the (now) 533 Ford, and one with an Olds, but then again, I build a killer Olds too..... TIMINATOR P.S. I took the Ford position because I felt that since there were less Ford builders, there would be less good Ford info.
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out who the winner will be between a semi-tired 454 Chevy and a fresh full roller 540 Ford. That has nothing to do with Ford vs. Chevy. ;) I'm looking forward to next year's races with a lot more Chevy's, a lot more experience, and a lot more competition in general. Who knows? By the time I get out there I might win a bottle of Patron. :-\who's got the 540 roller
I don't understand most of that but it sounds like pretty important stuff! :D
who's got the 540 roller
i think i have the most cid 502 the chebby's are 496
Not talking about small block's because we're talking about boats? I thought it was a Ford vs. Chevrolet thread, do we need to stay on the 454 460 topic so that Ford has a chance to win? Besides, there's a small block post'er on this site that will smoke allmost all of the big block's on here!
this isnt factual, but if you think about the percent of chevy vs others
80%chev
10%ford
5%mopar
5%other
what do you think happens when you play the average.
sorry to get off topic
so what can i say=run what ya brung
How the hell did I miss this debate.i dont care how much money i have to spend i will never own a chebby, besides that they wont ever look this cool
Chevrolet all the way!!
LakesOnly don't know shitt!!!
You CAN indeed get over 700 hp from stock Chevy block, crank and heads. My Sanger had over 700 hp.
It is very rare to see a 460 ford run hard. It might run good for a 460 Ford, but dollar for dollar it will be crushed by the Chevy. Yes there are some fast Fords, but at what cost. I'll go dollar for dollar against ANY Ford based engine combo.
Wait - wasn't someone saying here that a set of manifolds for a Chevy are 200 bucks, but an Olds versions are only 100? I just bought a set of edelbrock wet manifolds, nickson snails, marine pan, attached to a running Marine BB Mopar for 300 bucks... Wouldn't that make the Chevys more expensive to set up than the other motors?
GC - Thanks :-)
Used parts are priced by supply and demand, there is no or very little demand for used marine mopar parts, that's one possible reason why yours were cheap. Most people that have Olds engines want something else, Ford or Chevrolet, and there's a billion of those used Olds marine parts for sale. It's one thing to get your boat's parts cheap but it needs to stay running to stay cheap. $300 for all of those parts plus the engine is a steal, for any brand and I'm sure you're very aware of that.
While I have your attention (hopefully) do you know the major differences between the mopar compared to the Chevrolet's and Ford's? (2 or 4 bolt mains, main cap bolt diameter's, rod bolt diameter's, do the head bolts go through/into water jackets, etc etc etc... thanks!)
Ralph there is no doubt that your drag car's engine is SIK, that's a huge understatement... but there's more than one reason most pro drag racer's run Hemi's and not Ford's version of the Hemi.
I'm still waiting to see percentages of races won for each manufacturer...
This is our heritage! BIG V-8s that chug gas and smoke ass! My 2 cents.
Do crate motors count if they do I think I know who won that one. :o
Word Mopar hands down
Factoring in cost? Or just by HP? Or?
Hmmmm I got the lifter thing bas-akwards. Well i guess i learned a couple of things on this thread i didn't know a 460 could be stroked larger than a 454 either. How large is feasable with a chev 454, a 502, and a ford 460, and ok a 440? A 454 IS 496? 502=540? 460? 440? ???
Sorry, BB mopars can go 543 no issues with stock 440 block, 512 with 400 block. Sonic checked can possibly go higher. goto www.440source.com if you don't believe me. A raised cam block can get you well over 670 ci.
A 454 Chevy can only go to 496 due to the block bore config.
Chevys have a long stroke, which tends to give great low rpm performance, not needed in a jet.
Ooooh that's gotta hurt. Hey speedy don't send em to 440source cuz if they notice the prices they're really gonna cry.
BWHAAA HAAA Haaaa
I've seen stroker kits for the 460 ford that go up 557ci with no clearance issues.It seems like alot of geometry going on in there for that much displacement. Rod angle isn't an issue????? cuz there must be a big throw going on in there.
It seems like alot of geometry going on in there for that much displacement. Rod angle isn't an issue????? cuz there must be a big throw going on in there.Last thing you need is a piston being forced sideways more offten than not.
Jet boats need torque down low. Most jets run under 5500 rpms. You couldn't pull up a big fat skier like me without torque. ;D
Chevys have a long stroke, which tends to give great low rpm performance, not needed in a jet.
Jet boats need torque down low. Most jets run under 5500 rpms. You couldn't pull up a big fat skier like me without torque. ;D
I know a little somethin bout them there Y-blocks ;D
Not that I had anything to do with building it, the fastest car I've ever owned had a Y block in it. I'd hold that phoker at 6K, dump the clutch, and burn them used CHP tires up! Fun times.
Thank you. (Attachment Link)
Amen Brother ;)
I tow my boat (see signature) with a Chevy Suburban. :screwy:
I picked Ford for the boat because thats all I had ever rebuilt a a teen. Figured go with what you know. I would probably pick a 454 if I was to do another boat for no other reason than price and availability of aftermarket parts. Until then though I am determined to make this Ford go faster and faster >:D
That's what I'm talkin' about...It's just what you know/prefer...thats all there is too it.... THEY ALL BREAK! >:( :D By the way...jus' messin' around,but here's one for you FORD guy's.....
For
Oustanding
River
Driving hehehe >:D Tracy
werent mopar blocks painted red for a time?
werent mopar blocks painted red for a time?
OK Guy's...Here's my .02! I was a FORD Tech for almost 27 years as of last December,I am now a tech for GM. The FORD store I worked for closed it's door's at the end of the year,as we all know,FORD is having some issues right now...Rumor has it that there will be approx 40 FORD stores closing in California by the end of the year! That's not counting the 6/8 or so that have already closed in So Cal. 6 of those ones that will be closing will also be in So Cal.......Anwyay as an owner of many boats in the past and MANY, MANY cars in my life...Here is the bottom line...as far as "what is best", well regardless of what you spend or what you build or how easy it is to build..or even how cheap and easy it is to build...The bottom line is...THEY ALL BREAK! Some sooner,Some later! So as far as "what is best",in my opinion it is just personal preference! I am a dedicated Ford Guy and have been all my life,if you would have asked me this question 10 years ago,I would have put down Chevy big time...like...you know... real men dont wear bow ties!,but then you have the Chevy guy's sayin' Found On Road Dead!..But look as I said earlier...THAY ALL BREAK! So pick what ya want and ROLL WITH IT! Enjoy what ya got and don't make fun of the next guy! As Rodney King said..."Can't we all just get along"!!! LMAO! Anyway,just my.02! TracyHey Tom....I think if ya really loook at this..I am basically sayin' the same thing..... 8) Tracy
Blue, grey, and orange
Might be going to the "Mopars on the Strip" this weekend, hopefully find some good cheap parts and watch some fast ass carsHey Tony....maybe naive here..but are those your cars?
Hey Tony....maybe naive here..but are those your cars?
The fords can have there displacement, I will take the reliability of chevy! ;D
That's not showing very clearly in the circle jet races. :banghead: But then again I don't know how many of the Chevy's were built with the expertise of a retired top fuel mechanic (I think). ???thanks rod, no top fuel mechanics but life long ford builders
The fords can have there displacement, I will take the reliability of chevy! ;Devery motor can be reliable if you build it rite. mine has about 60miles of mostly 5,000 and up rpm's on it now. probably due to be freshend up but dont have the time before the next race, so, i'll just roll the dice
thanks rod, no top fuel mechanics but life long ford buildersevery motor can be reliable if you build it rite...
every motor can be reliable if you build it rite. mine has about 60miles of mostly 5,000 and up rpm's on it now. probably due to be freshend up but dont have the time before the next race, so, i'll just roll the dice
... probably due to be freshend...
it seemed to me the only one with the answers was the ford guy i use to beat 454s witha 428 cj all day in lake washington its always gona depend on the driver to
Don't even get me started on the way that Ford assembled those 428's... passenger car motors, PI motors, CJ motors, SCJ motors, what a bunch of horsesh!t. :banghead:
Don't forget the truck engine. Do you have anyother FE stuff laying around ?
Sleeper CP
Big Inch Ford Lover ;D
Amen Brother!! ;D I know one thing....My FORD tow's my Chevy! >:D The boat was cheap so's i could'nt resist...I will eventually have a Ford towing a Ford! ;D :D ;) :) ;D :D ;) :)
I would take this over a GT any day and I will still have $60,000 in my pocket!
(https://www.socaljetboats.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.chevrolet.com%2Fi%2Fpic%2Fcorvette%2F2008%2Fphotogallery%2Fext_gallery08.jpg&hash=f1ecdd4b1883c1b69a66e859c41d6c95a35dbbf1)
On a side note:
...the full planned lot of 4500 were not produced. Approximately 550 were built in 2004, nearly 1900 in 2005, and just over 1600 in 2006, for a grand total of 4038; however, the final 11 car bodies manufactured by Mayflower Vehicle Systems were disassembled and the frames and body panels sold as service parts.
1. Ford Didnt even make the cars
2. Couldnt even sell em all!
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Remember it's Ford GT..........not GT 40.
Remember it's Ford GT..........not GT 40.
I'd take the GT, because I'm a Ford guy, but that Z 06 is nothing to sneeze at. That is one bad ass car.
Just my .02
how do I always end up with the Ford guys around me?
So i guess you and everyone else could drive a vette. not nearly the performace of a gt but hey whose keeping track right! i dont know about you but i dont want to drive what just about any kid out of high school could get financed for! What is really sad is that a lot of ford dealerships have mustangs sitting on thier lots that could hang with a vette. Now thats mighty impressive sounding for chevy!
That picture is of a Z06, I dont know many kids who could get financed on 75k let alone when its optioned at almost $100,000. The Z06 is hanging door to door with the Dodge Viper and I have never seen a showroom mustang that wasnt aftermarket modified hang with a Viper or Z06!
I think when you were referring to the car that any kid can get financed on you were referring to the stang! talk about run of the mill! ;D
....show me some stats that a Slowvette will beat a G/T 40 and I may a agree....
Anybody can buy a Mustang....what does that tell ya!!!
THANK YOU TONY FOR DRIVING MY POINT HOME WITH THE VIDEO!!! ;D
Exactly, they're all about the same, don't care what magazines say cause they always say different shit on which one is better ??? :banghead:
I MEAN PROVING THAT THE FORD IS FASTER ON A TRACK. THE DODGE WAS OVER A SECOND SLOWER THAN THE OTHER TWO. WHILE THE FORD WAS HALF A SECOND FASTER THAN THE CHEVY.
There all opinions of people I have never met or heard of so they don't hold true to me.
Fire this Mickey mouse mechanic he put the chev rocker covers on a ford motor. LQQK at it.
Fire this Mickey mouse mechanic he put the chev rocker covers on a ford motor. LQQK at it.
Wild Bill JENKINS put it in front lets get manifold on here the Iatolofchevola it only toook Chev 20+ years to get it RITEThe picture looks like a Cleveland intake on a Chevy block ???
I say who cares. As long as it not an Olds..
i say who cares....the people makin the most noise here dont have running boats. ;D
i say who cares....the people makin the most noise here dont have running boats. ;D
If I was a neutral minded car buyer, I would take the stang every time on the basis of it having almost the same amount of power as the limited edition zo6 at half the price.
Thanks for re-saying that the Mustang is so run of the mill that almost any kid can buy a run of the mill mustang!
i say who cares....the people makin the most noise here dont have running boats. ;D
My point is proven your a focken tard.
The GT is not a straight line drag car! The GT has a lot smaller engine than the other 2. The GT has better numbers on a track when put up against other exotic supercars. The GT was built to be a Ferrari killer and it does.
Ferrari F430 Ford GT
List price est $171,000 $149,995
Price as tested est $200,204 $173,845
Curb weight est 3150 lb 3500 lb
Engine, transmission 4.3L V-8, 6-speed manual 5.4L suprchgd V-8, 6-speed manual
Horsepower, bhp @ rpm 483 @ 8500 550 @ 6500
0–60 mph 3.5 sec 3.6 sec
0–100 mph 8.1 sec 8.0 sec
0–1320 ft (1/4 mile) 11.7 sec @ 120.1 mph 11.7 sec @ 125.8 mph
Top speed 198 mph 205 mph
Braking from 60 mph 113 ft 122 ft
Braking from 80 mph 192 ft 214 ft
Skidpad 0.90g (Spider) 1.00g
Slalom 70.9 mph (Spider) 69.6 mph
Fuel mileage est 12.0 mpg est 14.0 mpg
I would say the GT is holding is own pretty fuking good here on a test done by road and track.
Yeah my shit dont run , but Ford still sucks ;D
2sav
That's not what you were saying a few months ago when you were building one! ;D
Hey sleeper...I hate to tell ya...BUT it is a G/T 40! >>:D
you did a good job showing a car with more horse power, larger displacement AND a supercharger only keeping up with its true rival. I would think with 1.1L more displacement and a Blower that it should be turning more then only 67HP more then the Ferrari.The Ford did have better gas mileage, which is important when you spend 150k on a car ;)
Comparing those 2 you made me want a ferrari only that much more. The fit and finish of the GT is garbage comparred to a ferrari, I have been for a ride in a GT, I know someone who owned one along with ferraris, austin martin DB9, and vintage racing cars. I wonder why he got rid of the GT.
The Ford did have better gas mileage, which is important when you spend 150k on a car ;)
A little trivia for ya: Ford couldn't call the car the GT-40 because the dumb asses never copywrited the name. I think it was sometime in the late '70's or early 80's that some guy's copy writed the name. They demanded that Ford pay them several million dollars outwrite or some stuped amount like $25 K per car to use the name GT-40.
Just another example as to how stupid the court system is, it was Ford, not two dipstick's that made that name have value. The name rightly belonged to Ford, but they never registered the copywrite.
I don't ever remember seeing it written G/T 40 maybe it is but I don't think so.
The video you posted, I went to the SEMA show in '06 and there were 3 1,000+ hp TT GT's
Sleeper CP
Oh, I'll put my little single carb Ford up against any Chevy posting. ( Carry on)