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Poll

Chevy or Ford?

Chevy
45.3%
29 (45.3%)
Ford
43.8%
28 (43.8%)
Other
10.9%
7 (10.9%)

Total Members Voted: 61


pw_Tony

  • Karma: +12/-0
Re: The Big Debate - Ford Vs. Chevy
« Reply #75 on: October 30, 2007, 02:14:04 PM »
Well I was talking in General. But Mopar has raised their prices on their crate motors,

It used to be..

Mopar 360 380hp crate= $3400
Chevy 350 380hp= $4900

Mopar 500ci 500hp= $5000
Chevy 496 500hp=$7500

Or something to that effect, I'm just going off memory.

I believe Mopar was the one that started the crate motor craze.

But when you buy a Hemi you pay ALOT, due to how rare the blocks are.

I also am only talking about factory built motors, not World products, or Indy or anything.
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2savage4you

  • Karma: +14/-1
Re: The Big Debate - Ford Vs. Chevy
« Reply #76 on: October 30, 2007, 02:59:25 PM »
Hey where's all the Oldsmobubble lovers at ???  ;D




2sav ::)
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KonaCole

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: The Big Debate - Ford Vs. Chevy
« Reply #77 on: October 30, 2007, 03:11:23 PM »
It is more of a love / hate relationship for my Olds and I am too new to speak poorly of the Fords!  Although, I did own a challenger w/ a Ford. (I stress the term, DID).  It is too bad that there are not more jet boats with Mopars out there because I have seen some 440s take a complete beating and still make great power.
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I didn't do it... ok, it was me.

SLCKREG

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Big Debate - Ford Vs. Chevy
« Reply #78 on: October 30, 2007, 04:07:04 PM »
Maybe iIve got my "chevy blinders" on, but it seems to me that chev is ahead of the R +D game, like with the 572. chev comes out with a 502  the comp. answers with their 500's , so chev says oh yeh have a 572. (not to mention chevs small block program) Also arent fords 460 lifter dia. smaller than chev? I guess it would'nt matter much with a roller cam, but that sounds like a disadvantage to me with a flat tappet.
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pw_Tony

  • Karma: +12/-0
Re: The Big Debate - Ford Vs. Chevy
« Reply #79 on: October 30, 2007, 04:16:54 PM »
Chevy has the smallest lifter diameter. 0.8437

Mopar has the biggest. 0.904

Ford Lifters= 0.875

Before the 572 and 502 came out in crate form the Mopar had the 500 and 528 Hemi.

The 528 Hemi made 610hp compared to Chevy 572 620hp... but the Hemi did it with less compression and less cam.

But all crate motors are supposed to be rated at 2000 feet elevation (or something like that) and once dynoed they actually make more corrected horsepower
« Last Edit: October 30, 2007, 04:20:44 PM by pw_Tony »
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SLCKREG

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Big Debate - Ford Vs. Chevy
« Reply #80 on: October 30, 2007, 04:37:19 PM »
Hmmmm I got the lifter thing bas-akwards. Well i guess i learned a couple of things on this thread i didn't know a 460 could be stroked larger than a 454 either. How large is feasable with a chev 454, a 502, and a ford 460, and ok a 440?  A 454 IS 496?  502=540?   460?   440?  ???
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pw_Tony

  • Karma: +12/-0
Re: The Big Debate - Ford Vs. Chevy
« Reply #81 on: October 30, 2007, 04:47:25 PM »
Hmmmm I got the lifter thing bas-akwards. Well i guess i learned a couple of things on this thread i didn't know a 460 could be stroked larger than a 454 either. How large is feasable with a chev 454, a 502, and a ford 460, and ok a 440?  A 454 IS 496?  502=540?   460?   440?  ???

I believe with an average truck block 454 some can go 510ci long as the bores are sonic tested to see how thick they are.

As stated earlier in the thread any run of the mill 460 can go over 550+ c.i with no clearance issues.

440= not a good stroker motor, can't go over 500ci without some serious work I believe, unless you get a raised cam block
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speedymopars

  • Karma: +6/-0
Re: The Big Debate - Ford Vs. Chevy
« Reply #82 on: November 03, 2007, 09:22:04 AM »
Sorry, BB mopars can go 543 no issues with stock 440 block, 512 with 400 block. Sonic checked can possibly go higher. goto www.440source.com if you don't believe me.  A raised cam block can get you well over 670 ci.

A 454 Chevy can only go to 496 due to the block bore config.

Chevys have a long stroke, which tends to give great low rpm performance, not needed in a jet.
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21' 74 cheyenne 543 Mopar Berkeley Jet Place diverter

GlassCutter

  • Karma: +31/-0
Re: The Big Debate - Ford Vs. Chevy
« Reply #83 on: November 03, 2007, 02:14:53 PM »
Ooooh that's gotta hurt.  Hey speedy don't send em to 440source cuz if they notice the prices they're really gonna cry.
BWHAAA  HAAA  Haaaa
  • Boat #1: 1973  Wriedt Montara 23
  • Boat #2: 1978 Spectra 20 460/Berkley
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Also, I will kiss bare male ass in the middle of the Vegas Strip  . . .  I will post pics if I need to.  --  IRRebel 2013

"Go ahead Rivertard does it.  Take a video though."

"If you did it in a dodge it would have shifted perfectly ran a thousand miles per hour and got optimum fuel mileage!"  Nordie  2012

pw_Tony

  • Karma: +12/-0
Re: The Big Debate - Ford Vs. Chevy
« Reply #84 on: November 03, 2007, 02:29:30 PM »
Sorry, BB mopars can go 543 no issues with stock 440 block, 512 with 400 block. Sonic checked can possibly go higher. goto www.440source.com if you don't believe me.  A raised cam block can get you well over 670 ci.

A 454 Chevy can only go to 496 due to the block bore config.

Chevys have a long stroke, which tends to give great low rpm performance, not needed in a jet.


Really? I didn't know that. Only have done stroker small blocks, haven't done a big block "Yet".

That's some good info, I always thought the cam to crank didn't have enough clearance... and that 440's were the lightest big blocks
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Marcsrollin

  • Karma: +33/-0
Re: The Big Debate - Ford Vs. Chevy
« Reply #85 on: November 03, 2007, 02:41:47 PM »
I've seen stroker kits for the 460 ford that go up 557ci with no clearance issues.
  • Boat #1: 1978 TX-19 Youngblood
  • Boat #2: 1994 24 foot Sundancer Pontoon
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Taco'd "a person or people that show up with one lake lice and a family of 50 and cram 3 people at a time on it with no disregard to boating rules or ethics. Usualy crap in toilets and throw shit paper in trash cans. Hang out at the boat ramp like its a swimming hole. Have zero insurance on anything they own and dont give two shits less about your property."

pw_Tony

  • Karma: +12/-0
Re: The Big Debate - Ford Vs. Chevy
« Reply #86 on: November 03, 2007, 02:48:01 PM »
Ooooh that's gotta hurt.  Hey speedy don't send em to 440source cuz if they notice the prices they're really gonna cry.
BWHAAA  HAAA  Haaaa


LMAO... that's a good one... that they will, that they will
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GlassCutter

  • Karma: +31/-0
Re: The Big Debate - Ford Vs. Chevy
« Reply #87 on: November 03, 2007, 10:19:32 PM »
Don't forget that it all ain't about cubic inches.  It's how you put the combo together and how good things breath IN and OUT.  I have had a iron headed, unported, small valved, stock crank (440 in a 400 block) solid cammed motor dyno 550 horses and 540 ft lb using 474 cu in.  Made 500 ft/lbs at 3400 rpm.  Using smaller valves actually gets better airflow and so more efficient heads mean cheap power.  This combo went 12.09 at 113 mph in a 4,000 lb Road Runner back in the 80's.
  • Boat #1: 1973  Wriedt Montara 23
  • Boat #2: 1978 Spectra 20 460/Berkley
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Also, I will kiss bare male ass in the middle of the Vegas Strip  . . .  I will post pics if I need to.  --  IRRebel 2013

"Go ahead Rivertard does it.  Take a video though."

"If you did it in a dodge it would have shifted perfectly ran a thousand miles per hour and got optimum fuel mileage!"  Nordie  2012

lilrick

  • Karma: +8/-1
Re: The Big Debate - Ford Vs. Chevy
« Reply #88 on: November 24, 2007, 09:39:49 AM »
I've seen stroker kits for the 460 ford that go up 557ci with no clearance issues.
It seems like alot of geometry going on in there for that much displacement. Rod angle isn't an issue????? cuz there must be a big throw going on in there.
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beerjet

  • Karma: +81/-0
Re: The Big Debate - Ford Vs. Chevy
« Reply #89 on: November 24, 2007, 09:43:50 AM »
It seems like alot of geometry going on in there for that much displacement. Rod angle isn't an issue????? cuz there must be a big throw going on in there.
Last thing you need is a piston being forced sideways more offten than not.

-beerjet-
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i dont but im all for stuffin shit in her ass to make her go away :-*

lilrick

  • Karma: +8/-1
Re: The Big Debate - Ford Vs. Chevy
« Reply #90 on: November 24, 2007, 09:45:02 AM »


Chevys have a long stroke, which tends to give great low rpm performance, not needed in a jet.

Jet boats need torque down low. Most jets run under 5500 rpms. You couldn't pull up a big fat skier like me without torque.  ;D
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lilrick

  • Karma: +8/-1
Re: The Big Debate - Ford Vs. Chevy
« Reply #91 on: November 24, 2007, 09:46:37 AM »
did any of these big stroker fords make it through the enduro??? ???
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speedymopars

  • Karma: +6/-0
Re: The Big Debate - Ford Vs. Chevy
« Reply #92 on: November 24, 2007, 07:33:29 PM »
Jet boats need torque down low. Most jets run under 5500 rpms. You couldn't pull up a big fat skier like me without torque.  ;D

That is one statement I don't understand. If you goose a prop, the prop holds it back much like a tire in a car. If you goose a jet, it will goto whatever the HP/RPM/Impeller allows. Am I misunderstanding (or maybe we just have a different opinion of what low end is)  :-\

Also, down low for me is 1000-2500 RPM's, not 5500. That is the top of mid range/bottom of top end in my book. I guess I'll test out that theory next year when they have to lug my fat a$$ out of the water.  ;D


Chevys have a 4 inch bore, which is great for emissions, which is why they are still around and had facory development for the last 20 years

Mopars with the largest bore got handed a death knell when emissions rolled around. Crate motors = OK, factory builds = no go.

All the new Hemi's are small bore, long stroke, just like the old chevys - The 572 Chevy is a big bore, short stroke, just like the old Mopars... Given how all of the engineers and management from Ford left for Mopar in the late 60's, the Mopar engineers and management all left for Chevy 5-7 years ago... history repeats itself...






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21' 74 cheyenne 543 Mopar Berkeley Jet Place diverter

pw_Tony

  • Karma: +12/-0
Re: The Big Debate - Ford Vs. Chevy
« Reply #93 on: January 22, 2008, 08:53:55 PM »
Bump for Nordic  ;D
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hotrod56cars

  • Karma: +1/-8
Re: The Big Debate - Ford Vs. Chevy
« Reply #94 on: March 26, 2008, 01:20:59 PM »
In researching his 428 Ford I've learned that Ford's are even more of a pain in the asss than I ever thought they were. Let's take the 428. The 428 was built in several platforms, the passenger car version, the Police Interceptor version, the Cobra Jet version, and the Super Cobra Jet version. Now the CJ (Cobra Jet) and the SCJ (super Cobra Jet) were built on a block that is called a C block, unless of course Ford didn't have any C blocks at the time then Ford used the A block. Each block, A and C, could both be cast with standard main deck webbing or reinforced main deck webbing. Now if the oil valley "holes" on the back of the block were never drilled then the block came with a solid lifter cam which would mean that the block was a standard passenger car block. If the oil valley "holes" are plugged with mini-freeze plugs or plugged with square drive plugs then the block came with a hydraulic cam and the block could be a passenger car block, a PI block, a CJ block, or a SCJ block. The connecting rods are real tell-tale signs, because Ford only used about 15 different rods in just the 428's, each rod version having it's own designated style of engine it was supposed to be assembled with, unless of course Ford didn't have the right rods in stock in which case they used whatever rod Ford had on the shelf at the time that would work in a 428. In 1969 Ford used like 4 different rods in the SCJ engine, unless of course Ford didn't have the right rods then Ford would assemble the engine with whatver they had on the shelf that would work on a 428. That is a brief description of the Ford 428 shortblock, it gets even worse when you analyze the rest of the engine and the different version's of each 428.

Take the above into consideration when you look at Ford V-8's. Ford had the flathead V-8, the Y block V-8, the FE series V-8's (428 included), the old style small block V-8, the newer style small block V-8, the modern small block V-8's, the 429/460 big block V-8, the side oiler, the W, the C, the M, and who knows what the phuk else. I doubt if Ford even knows what the phuk else they made. With all of the variations of Ford V-8's, it's no wonder the Ford lovers keep praising the 429/460, it would be too confusing to praise any other Ford V-8 along with the 429/460. 




Chevy. Big block or small block? Two piece rear main or one piece rear main? Big block only - tall deck or short deck? Big block only - two bolt main or four bolt main. OK, that summed it up, thank you and have a nice day!   ;)
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NO REGRET$ ... Arguing on the internet is like competing in the Special Olympics / no matter how good you do you're still retarded!!!!!

                                                          1978  19' Mach 1 Tunnel jet

pw_Tony

  • Karma: +12/-0
Re: The Big Debate - Ford Vs. Chevy
« Reply #95 on: March 26, 2008, 01:28:18 PM »
I know a little somethin bout them there Y-blocks  ;D
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hotrod56cars

  • Karma: +1/-8
Re: The Big Debate - Ford Vs. Chevy
« Reply #96 on: March 26, 2008, 02:47:24 PM »
I know a little somethin bout them there Y-blocks  ;D

Not that I had anything to do with building it, the fastest car I've ever owned had a Y block in it. I'd hold that phoker at 6K, dump the clutch, and burn them used CHP tires up! Fun times.
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NO REGRET$ ... Arguing on the internet is like competing in the Special Olympics / no matter how good you do you're still retarded!!!!!

                                                          1978  19' Mach 1 Tunnel jet

2savage4you

  • Karma: +14/-1
Re: The Big Debate - Ford Vs. Chevy
« Reply #97 on: March 26, 2008, 03:24:58 PM »
Not that I had anything to do with building it, the fastest car I've ever owned had a Y block in it. I'd hold that phoker at 6K, dump the clutch, and burn them used CHP tires up! Fun times.

Funny, i used to work at the gas station in Vidal Junction, and we took care of the chp ;D So i always had the eagles on my rides.... Thought it was cool back then but now it just sounds retarded :banghead:
2sav
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2savage4you

  • Karma: +14/-1
Re: The Big Debate - Ford Vs. Chevy
« Reply #98 on: March 26, 2008, 04:01:25 PM »
Thank you.  (Attachment Link)

Well you have to admit, the things we used to do as kids , we....ah nevermind were still doing it ;D

We aint never gonna grow up :banghead:
2sav ;D
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hotrod56cars

  • Karma: +1/-8
Re: The Big Debate - Ford Vs. Chevy
« Reply #99 on: March 26, 2008, 08:34:33 PM »
Ford vs. Chevy

I removed 11 - eleven - bolts to take off a water pump off of a Ford 460 today. One of them broke. With 11 total bolts on a Ford and 4 on a Chevy the Ford has at least 7 more reasons that it can go wrong. Why at least 7? Because the freakin water pump bolts through a timing chain cover/fuel pump mount/dipstick holder/only God knows what else thingy. On a Chevy the water pump has it's own bolts. The timing chain cover on a Chevy is held on with it's own bolts. So now I'm thinking that since the timing chain cover was disrupted by removing the water pump on this Ford I have to pull the timing chain cover and oil pan to replace their gaskets. Ford =   IMO Chevy is much more simple design.
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Quote
NO REGRET$ ... Arguing on the internet is like competing in the Special Olympics / no matter how good you do you're still retarded!!!!!

                                                          1978  19' Mach 1 Tunnel jet

 


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