[2savage4you]

Well , i got a set of Chevy heads that might cure it

C'mon man, you know i had too

2sav

[flytime]

Im just teasing him!

I know you are.

[skee]

Well , i got a set of Chevy heads that might cure it

C'mon man, you know i had too

2sav

   Yeah..Ya might as well let him,huh....obviously yer not gonna use 'em!      hehehe   

[2savage4you]

   Yeah..Ya might as well let him,huh....obviously yer not gonna use 'em!      hehehe   

Now that really hurts man!!!
2sav

[skee]

Now that really hurts man!!!
2sav

Jus' messin' with ya 2sav....ya know I had to do it.....bein' the BIG FORD guy I am.....    

[2savage4you]

Jus' messin' with ya 2sav....ya know I had to do it.....bein' the BIG FORD guy I am.....    

Eeeewwwwwww you said the FORDletterword!!!

2sav

[beerjet]

I know You remember when I picked you up in my pile o parts at elsinore . It spuddered like crazy and ran like crap . Dropped you off at the dock and never made it back to my ramp . Turns out I had a bad connection at my breaker switch . Sounds like ralphs pretty much got this narrowed down .

-beerjet-

[Brad @ SCJB]

thanks everyone for their input.

next step will be bypassing all electrical as much as possible just to rule it out. pretty much just hook up the msd box, dist, coil, battery, starter and altinator.....the bare essentials. i think its now just doing the process of elimination.

propless, there was no issue with my gauges...i thought my temp gauge wasnt working, but it was just running too cold and wasnt registering.

got to thinking about it "running fine on the trailer and only acting up under load"....i never really run it over 3500 on the trailer....just rap on it a little, but never climb rpms. i will (carefully) try this as well. if i can get it to act up on the trailer, it will be easier to trouble shoot rather then having to make lake trips and change crap on the shore.

im determined to find this gremlin.

i will also post this over on PB's motor tech section as well as suggested by brendellajet. theres a lot of experience i need to explore over there. I dont really think this is a ford specific issue. its basic mechanics. it could very well happen to a chevy.

[Marcsrollin]

Check to make sure the cam is in right!!!!!

[thebeeter]

hey brad newb here, i had the white jet pulling out as you were goin in. you and your buddy sounded good as you took off. best of luck figuring out your prob.
i changed my intake mani. gasket and multiple oil changes and got back on the lake at 7 pm and ended up towing some one to the ramp and driving him to his truck on the other side of the lake.
 

[speedymopars]

I was out there today doing some tuning....

OK, when I hear that, I think that the plugs have a bad gap on them, causing them to foul on the acc pump. In addition to the plug gap, This can also be caused by a marginal coil or wires, a confused rev limiter (if it's a 6 al pull the pill), or incorrect rotor phasing in the cap. Don't discount something stupid like moisture in the cap or the cap not seated 100%. When you get on it at low RPM, the load the ignition sees is the greatest - so any easier path the current will take. Light load won't always show ignition issues.


OR

The floats are too low

OR

the secondaries have debris in them.


OR

The secondary acc pump is too big (too much fuel) or the secondary spring is too light ( I missed if it's a DP or a vac).

***

You also could be having lifter issues if you have a hyd flat tappet, see if changing the weight of the oil changes where it happens at.


What is your gap set at (set to .045) ?
What plug wires are you using?
Have you separated the adjacent firing cylinders (example: mopar / Chev 5/7 ; Ford 3/4)
Have you verified the cap is dry and on 100%
All plug wires are seated?
The plugs are tight?
The wires can't and aren't arcing somewhere?
You have a reasonable acc pump cam(s) installed (white / pink) , and not some mondo squirter size (.028-.035)?
Jetting is near stock for the carb?
Fuel pressure is OK, floats set to sight glass?


My dual carbs want a .035-.037 squirter and pink cam. Not much pump shot cc wise, but all of it immediately. 
Jets seem to get too much fuel for too long on the acc pump if the carbs are left stock - no convertor or gear to contend with in a jet, so they don't need as long of duration - if this happens to be when your secondary acc pump starts (and you have a dp) - you may just have too much  fuel for too long of duration at that point.

I'd have to hear it to be sure though, these are just some things that come into my head.

[Brad @ SCJB]

just to add something....

the 'sputtering/spitting' starts at a VERY specific RPM....about 3500. you can find it and ride right under it and as soon as you go a little more, it starts up, if you back off a little, it stops. its VERY specific and defined to that rpm. it is not random coming in at various rpms.

[Brad @ SCJB]

speedy, we have eliminated the carb issues. we took the carb off ralphs motor (very similar motor) and it rendered the same issues. I am planning on checking all the plug wires when i have the headers off later this week when i replace the gaskets. I know there is one that isnt right and never has been. Along with the other trouble shooting, i will be testing a different MSD box as well to void that one out as being a cause as well.

[GT Jets]

Hey Brad, when doing your troubleshooting, disconnect the tach lead also, just as an experiment, your tachometer could be going to ground also (only heard of this one time, but it was one of those rev-limit tachs) I believe with MSD it is the grey wire.

Now you have me curious, BTW X2 the oil viscosity theory.

Also, how much water do you have going through the headers? It is possible to have too large of orifices, or too much pressure going into the exhaust tubes, try shutting that off as an experiment as well.

Keep us posted!

[Brad @ SCJB]

headers have no water going through them. it renders the same problem with or without baffles in.

there is plug on the side of the msd box for the tach that will be disconnected during troubleshooting.

[skee]

Hey Brad.....lemmee ask ya something....does it do it on both tanks or just one? 

[speedymopars]

Torque peek is where the greatest igntion load is - where is your cam's torque peek?

Try backing off your ignition a few degrees to see if it helps at 3500 RPM. Personally I'm leaning towards an ignition issue in this order -

Burned plug wire(s)
Significantly wrong gap setting
insuficient voltage
confused limiter
cap rotor phasing or clearance issues (too big of gap)





 

[Brad @ SCJB]

Hey Brad.....lemmee ask ya something....does it do it on both tanks or just one? 

currently it draws from both tanks without any valves to specify which tank to draw from.

During the last race I had a single bullet tank (the coffee maker) with a -10 line going to the fuel pump. same problem happened.

i watched the fuel pressure gauge as a passenger when ralph was driving and the fuel pressure was constant and never budged. I am running 6lbs, with ralphs carb on there (and his regulator) it was running 8lbs.

[skee]

Torque peek is where the greatest igntion load is - where is your cam's torque peek?

Try backing off your ignition a few degrees to see if it helps at 3500 RPM. Personally I'm leaning towards an ignition issue in this order -

Burned plug wire(s)
Significantly wrong gap setting
insuficient voltage
confused limiter
cap rotor phasing or clearance issues (too big of gap)

Hey Speedy...I agree with ya except for....if it had a bad plug wire or a spark plug issue,wouldnt it cause a problem at all times instead of just at about 3500 rpm's?

[Brad @ SCJB]

Here is my cam card...

[GT Jets]

Forgive my stupidity once again, this is a 460 right? has this combo ever run right? the reason I ask one of the goofy things Ford does that can be an ass kicker is the pushrods go into the lifters at an angle, I have seen the lifter bores get jacked and they will have valves hanging open if things aren't "tits" (sorry ladies).

Not sure how to prove is the only problem, you probably already know this but the boat does not have to be out in the middle of the lake to troubleshoot a problem like this, just tie it real secure to the trailer, back it into the water and let her fly while hooked up to the truck with the E-brake on and don't let anybody get in front of the boat just in case.

Only recommend this on a concrete ramp, mud gets messy.

[GT Jets]

Thats a good camshaft, what rockers are you using, and is the cam installed straight up?

This cam doesn't seem too outrageous, a lot of lift depending on the rockers, could also have valves overtightened, lifters pumped up take away lash. Doubt it though.

[skee]

Here is my cam card...

(Attachment Link)

Hey guy's....sorry if i'm ramblin' here,cuz i have never really been into the performance end of stuff... Anyway,Brad...I noticed that the date on that is from 2 years ago? Has it been in the boat for awhile? Or am I looking at that wrong? Curiosity...if it has been in the boat for awhile,is it possible that you have "lost" a lobe on the camshaft?? Just curious.....  Tracy

[Brad @ SCJB]

yes, this is a 460.

I dont know what angle the cam is at, i did not install it. it has 1.7 (not 1.73 as per ford spec) roller rockers installed. i was told that 1.7's will work fine as well.

[Brad @ SCJB]

Hey guy's....sorry if i'm ramblin' here,cuz i have never really been into the performance end of stuff... Anyway,Brad...I noticed that the date on that is from 2 years ago? Has it been in the boat for awhile? Or am I looking at that wrong? Curiosity...if it has been in the boat for awhile,is it possible that you have "lost" a lobe on the camshaft?? Just curious.....  Tracy

to my knowledge, it was a new cam and lifters going in. i dont know if thats a date for when the PN was created or the cam was ground.