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surfaholic

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arg i thot my self into confusion
« on: December 19, 2012, 03:33:28 PM »
why is it that powerglides work for vdrives and prop boats but not for jets??? i just cant wrap my head around how a second gear for cruising in my tq curve would b a bad thing  :banghead:

ex: peak tq at 4000rpm at 450ish
peak hp at 6000rpm at 600ish

now with a gear that turns ur motor at 4k rpm and impeller at 5k rpm that would be absorbing about 450hp at full throttle according to impeller charts, our big blocks make very flat tq curves usualy only droping 100-200 from peak to 2000rpm, so if i have 450flbs at 4000rpms and say 300lbs at 2500rpm that would be more than enough for my boat at cruising speed.. i usualy cruise at 3200 rpm because that is a nice riding speed but according the impeller chart it is only absorbing 118hp, and if 2500rpm is making 300lbs of tq then why cant i get one gear 1:1 for all out speed and the other gear overdriven just for my cuise speed at little under half throttle

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surfaholic

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Re: arg i thot my self into confusion
« Reply #1 on: December 19, 2012, 05:33:30 PM »
33 views and no opinions??

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ka0tyk

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74hondo

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arg i thot my self into confusion
« Reply #3 on: December 19, 2012, 06:25:08 PM »
http://www.marinejettech.com/

Not a second speed but with the adjustable pitch or "cut" impellar and the adjustable nozzle and intake I think it could be a good alternative to trying to overcome the physics of putting a trans in a jetboat.
Though I think a trans would work in addition to the setup.
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crewchief22

  • Karma: +66/-0
Re: arg i thot my self into confusion
« Reply #4 on: December 19, 2012, 06:40:44 PM »
You could possibly make the jet function off of a transmission, but the handling issues caused by pushing the engine forward enough to fit the trans would likely make it undriveable (IMO).   
  • Boat #1: '77 Hondo Pantera GT Jet
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"Racing is life!  Anything that happens before or after, is just waiting"    Steve McQueen

The problem with America is stupidity. I'm not saying there should be a capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?

Marcsrollin

  • Karma: +33/-0
Re: arg i thot my self into confusion
« Reply #5 on: December 19, 2012, 07:02:33 PM »
We are trying to get the RPM's UP not down!
  • Boat #1: 1978 TX-19 Youngblood
  • Boat #2: 1994 24 foot Sundancer Pontoon
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Taco'd "a person or people that show up with one lake lice and a family of 50 and cram 3 people at a time on it with no disregard to boating rules or ethics. Usualy crap in toilets and throw shit paper in trash cans. Hang out at the boat ramp like its a swimming hole. Have zero insurance on anything they own and dont give two shits less about your property."

surfaholic

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: arg i thot my self into confusion
« Reply #6 on: December 19, 2012, 08:53:31 PM »
the idea is only to drop rpm for cruising mpg and using the tq curve to pull the boat, then go back 1:1 for hard wide open runs... i would like to start running a dart aluminum block and already running aluminum heads, intake, scoop, valve covers pretty much everything else it aluminum to shave weight even my rails and fuel tank.. i think if i got rid of the back seat and moved the motor forward it would weigh as much as two people and a small cooler.. i just don't get why it wont work
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BIG JOHNSON

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: arg i thot my self into confusion
« Reply #7 on: December 19, 2012, 09:58:04 PM »
Gear Vendors ain't TOO long to fit.

This was the one on my Ford. A guy could get shorter adapters.

Sent from DROID RAZR MAXX HD

  • Boat #1: 1994 Ultra LX 21"
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mash on it

  • Karma: +29/-0
Re: arg i thot my self into confusion
« Reply #8 on: December 20, 2012, 08:11:46 AM »
Weight and handling come into play, like Crewchief said. $2k+ on a gear box set-up, and unknown handling/driveability, could go a long ways towords a "AA" or larger impeller and adding more HP. For fuel milage, get an I/O, or a smallblock/berk set-up.
I like the simplicity of a jet setup, and a trans -may- be more headache than any gains seen at the fuel dock.
I have thought about an overdrive unit for a diesel/berk setup, to have the pump turn the req'd rpm, say 5K, and the motor turning 3300 +/- against the governer. 900+ lbs of diesel motor and an o/d unit (in an 18 footer) prolly wouldnt keep up with a stock smallblock.

Daniel
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CJ/RR 212...under construction  "Pistol Annie"

surfaholic

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: arg i thot my self into confusion
« Reply #9 on: December 20, 2012, 09:28:35 AM »
that gear vendors configuration looks pretty good! i figure if it doesnt work out ill just keep it for another project, and 2k cant buy u much hp, id have to  change pistons and run boost to gain any more as im running high compression and meth as it is
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IRRebel

  • Karma: +16/-0
Re: arg i thot my self into confusion
« Reply #10 on: December 20, 2012, 02:28:35 PM »
I agree with Crewcheif on that weight placement piece of it being a big issue. Marc has it also with the RPM requirements of the jet drives, although I think 5000-6000 RPM is typically the target @ max HP you want to aim for and then "impeller" the pump up to challenge the motor. I know Marc likes his engines to run like at 7000-7500 RPM, so that's a different animal to tackle, and when you start messing with this kinda edgy stuff you need to add pressure taps into the suction housing and bowl areas for guages to monitor potentially disaSSterous pressure levels.

Not quite as simple as "spin it faster, push more water though, go faster".

On V-Drives, the advantage is built in with the engine backwards to begin with. Most of them equipped with the TH400 or the Powerglide are set up with manual valve bodies. The boats, props, gear ratios in the V-Drive case, etc are setup for the boat to fly according to the engine setup in High gear. Low gear is typically only used in the No Wake Zones, etc. TH400's add that third gear that can get crazy, insane fast and require nuts the size of bowling balls to do it. I had a RaysonCraft with a TH400 that I never even hit third gear in before selling it.

Also, on V-Drives, you're not dealing with an enclosed pressure pump. Just an open propeller that, the harder and faster you spin the most agressive cut you can, the better and faster. Faster spinning on THOSE, though, also wears out the V-Drive cases, bearings, bushings, seals and shafts also, so there ARE limits there.

So there you have it. For the most part, the Jet Drive is simply designed not to need all that. It's impeller and inherent design is intended to work at the max efficiency it can whether idling in a NWZ or flat-footing it at max speed. Think of how the centrifugal clutches work on Snowmobiles, Old Rupp Mini bikes, older Kawasaki Mules, etc. that use the goddam huge belt.

That's kinda how a  Jet Drive operates.

Also, understand that if a transmission were used on a jet drive, when it shifts from say .65:1 to 1:1 or whatever, that is also 35% more HP needed to spin it at the same RPM........  :sly:

Ray
« Last Edit: December 20, 2012, 02:30:46 PM by IRRebel »
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"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways totally worn out shouting 'Holy Shit what a ride!"---Crewcheif22 AKA Keith

surfaholic

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Re: arg i thot my self into confusion
« Reply #11 on: December 21, 2012, 02:06:44 PM »
thanx ray thats exactly the info i was looking for and one of the only answers iv read there than it just doesnt work
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19ftspectra

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Re: arg i thot my self into confusion
« Reply #12 on: December 26, 2012, 11:03:57 PM »
ok good  if that is the info you are looking for  than i can keep my pie hole closed...   ;D but  i can say  i hope you get it dialed in .  puttin a gluid inbetween a motor and a berk  pump seems to be a tall order to me  but  anything can be done.   i say give her a go  and get alot of pics  and keep us posted  . 8)
  • Boat #1: 19 ft spectra  mini cruiser
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i am to stupid to get my boat to show up here.  so eat it...........

quick olds

  • Karma: +3/-0
Re: arg i thot my self into confusion
« Reply #13 on: February 07, 2013, 09:24:35 PM »
Advanced adapters has gear spliters there shorter than a trans but why not run a vdrive and trans but instead of goin to a prop angle it back to the pump?
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quick olds

  • Karma: +3/-0
Re: arg i thot my self into confusion
« Reply #14 on: February 07, 2013, 09:25:36 PM »
Nvm that wont work now im thinkin to hard
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