cooling the motor with water

« **on:** May 20, 2010, 07:22:37 PM »

ok so i was looking at my boat just making sure everything good to go.. and.... i noticed a valve which is for the water that goes into the engine to cool it... so i was thinkin to myself...."wtf.... sooo how open is this valve suppose to be??" Then i thought that all you guys would know... sooo ...... IS THERE A CERTIAN SETTING FOR THAT WATER VALVE OR DOES IT NOT MATTER...

« **Reply #1 on:** May 20, 2010, 07:25:56 PM »

Quote from: 1972Challenger on May 20, 2010, 07:22:37 PM

ok so i was looking at my boat just making sure everything good to go.. and.... i noticed a valve which is for the water that goes into the engine to cool it... so i was thinkin to myself...."wtf.... sooo how open is this valve suppose to be??" Then i thought that all you guys would know... sooo ...... IS THERE A CERTIAN SETTING FOR THAT WATER VALVE OR DOES IT NOT MATTER...

Open to the point that you spit out A LITTLE bit of water at idle.

« **Reply #2 on:** May 20, 2010, 07:38:28 PM »

Quote from: 1972Challenger on May 20, 2010, 07:22:37 PM

ok so i was looking at my boat just making sure everything good to go.. and.... i noticed a valve which is for the water that goes into the engine to cool it... so i was thinkin to myself...."wtf.... sooo how open is this valve suppose to be??" Then i thought that all you guys would know... sooo ...... IS THERE A CERTIAN SETTING FOR THAT WATER VALVE OR DOES IT NOT MATTER...

do you have a Thermostat? i do and i run full open (not sure if you dont run a Thermostat)

« **Reply #3 on:** May 20, 2010, 07:39:34 PM »

ummm not sure if i do.. i have a temp gauge soo i must have a thermistate.... but im not sure..

« **Reply #4 on:** May 20, 2010, 07:42:21 PM »

do not run it wide open. a regular car engine is cooled with a water pump and my numbers may be wrong but I think that pumps at like 4-6 psi. A jet pump shoots out like 12-20psi? Like i said my numbers may not be right but you get the idea. A jet pump puts too much water and creates too much head pressure and they will begin leaking somewhere!

« **Reply #5 on:** May 20, 2010, 08:02:04 PM »

I run all of mine wide open. No thermostats. If you have O/T headers, you'll probably want to run a separate valve to control the water flow into the headers. I haven't had good luck with the Bassett or Rewarder spring valves working right, but other than that, no other valves are necessary on the system.

The valve you have is a rudementary way to increase water temps in the engine, but a better way is off the exit side, not the inlet side, if this is an issue. Or Both.

One of my boats, Moo, with O/T headers, runs 140-160 all day, any day with the valves wide open. The Pickle doesn't seem to get above 120 with no valves on it at all (Logs and O/T pipes).

Ray

« **Reply #6 on:** May 20, 2010, 08:08:34 PM »

so basically it doesnt matter... i should just see how the temp is on the boat..?

« **Reply #7 on:** May 20, 2010, 08:11:15 PM »

Quote from: 1972Challenger on May 20, 2010, 08:08:34 PM

so basically it doesnt matter... i should just see how the temp is on the boat..?

just go have fun with your boat

« **Reply #8 on:** May 20, 2010, 08:23:12 PM »

Quote from: 1972Challenger on May 20, 2010, 08:08:34 PM

so basically it doesnt matter... i should just see how the temp is on the boat..?

LEAVE IT ALONE! If your boat's not running hot, acting funky or running like shit, don't f with it.

« **Reply #9 on:** May 20, 2010, 10:19:52 PM »

Quote from: Luckie Stiff on May 20, 2010, 08:23:12 PM

LEAVE IT ALONE! If your boat's not running hot, acting funky or running like shit, don't f with it.

Ditto this advice.

Quote from: IRRebel on May 20, 2010, 08:02:04 PM

.........If you have O/T headers, you'll probably want to run a separate valve to control the water flow into the headers. I haven't had good luck with the Bassett or Rewarder spring valves working right, but other than that, no other valves are necessary on the system.

The valve you have is a rudementary way to increase water temps in the engine, but a better way is off the exit side, not the inlet side, if this is an issue. Or Both.

Ray

Sorry, but what I have highlighted is not just incorrect, but may well be the reason you have had problems with the Bassett and Rewarder "T" valves. Restricting the outlet side of the system can/will lead to overpressure conditions not just in the engine but in all the plumbing between pump and that outlet valve. Put the flow control valve before the engine and that likelyhood will be lessened , if not eliminated. If you have taken the time to read the instructions on Bassetts website regarding OT header plumbing, you will see that they use the valve on the outlet(aka "dump" line) to control the pressure which opens the "T" valve. The more you choke it down to increase temperature, the lower the RPM at which the pressure exceeds the "T" valve spring pressure, potentially opening it at idle which you do not want!

« **Reply #10 on:** May 20, 2010, 10:26:29 PM »

I agree with skip don't fu*k with it if its workin. but if it is an issue. I know on every boat I've owned I've never had a thermostat and have always had to limit the water coming in from the pump other wise I blow intake manifold gaskets and milky oil... I always started at about 1.5 to 2 turns out on the first valve and watch the temp guage if it rises to much add more turns, a quarter turn at a time, if it dont move start closing. once again a quarter turn at a time. and the second valve I don't even plumb in any more, its always open. the bassett t-valve should do its job but I pulled mine apart every trip just to make sure it was clean and that the ball seat looked good. the one trip i didnt it had a little twig in it and stuck open. cold water hot valves = bad news. so just watch your water coming out of the headers. at idle they should be about dry, just a couple dripples out of the weeps. if not then check the t valve...

« **Reply #11 on:** May 20, 2010, 10:31:20 PM »

just noticed you have thru transom logs, I think, in that case none of this matters. my current boat has tt and there is no valve off the pump.

« **Reply #12 on:** May 20, 2010, 10:39:16 PM »

Quote from: Oldsquirt on May 20, 2010, 10:19:52 PM

Ditto this advice.

Sorry, but what I have highlighted is not just incorrect, but may well be the reason you have had problems with the Bassett and Rewarder "T" valves. Restricting the outlet side of the system can/will lead to overpressure conditions not just in the engine but in all the plumbing between pump and that outlet valve. Put the flow control valve before the engine and that likelyhood will be lessened , if not eliminated. If you have taken the time to read the instructions on Bassetts website regarding OT header plumbing, you will see that they use the valve on the outlet(aka "dump" line) to control the pressure which opens the "T" valve. The more you choke it down to increase temperature, the lower the RPM at which the pressure exceeds the "T" valve spring pressure, potentially opening it at idle which you do not want!

I get, and respect that, but the outlet valve, and the inlet for that matter, on mine was removed a long time ago. Both were run wide open anyway, never closed the slightest, so what was the point? Did it originally on some ill advice. Anyway, boat STILL, spilled water at idle.....Ask Skip....out the headers. This ultimately led to a head gasket issue due to reversion. 3 valves did this. Whether the JE is to blame and different, I don't know, but it is what it is. Driver controlled minivalve cured all that.

My intent was on log manifold boats, shoulda been more clear, I guess.

Ray

« **Reply #13 on:** May 21, 2010, 09:02:40 AM »

Quote from: willowog on May 20, 2010, 10:31:20 PM

just noticed you have thru transom logs, I think, in that case none of this matters. my current boat has tt and there is no valve off the pump.

I have a ball valve on the hard-line coming in the boat (wide-open) incase I blow a line off (I can shut it and not sink).

« **Reply #14 on:** May 21, 2010, 09:32:56 AM »

Quote from: IRRebel on May 20, 2010, 10:39:16 PM

My intent was on log manifold boats, shoulda been more clear, I guess.

Ray

Ray, it doesn't matter whether it is with logs or injected headers. Water flow control should always be on the inlet to the engine and not the outlet. Restriction of outlet flow is just inviting an overpressure situation.

The JE/JF pumps have the same water supply port as the JC/JG.

« **Reply #15 on:** May 21, 2010, 09:44:47 AM »

My old race boat (Wizard) had a valve at the pump to control water hence engine temp, no thermostat. It lead to one event that still haunts me. APBA NAtionals at firebird, we had gone through the entire boat in the shop the week before to make sure everything was perfect. The first heat went out and on the first straight ( on the five min. start gun) I did my usual guage check and my temp was pegged. I shut own the motor unhooked my kill switch and chute (yea I wore a chute in Ski Jet) crawled past the blazing hot motor and found the gate valve fully closed. I tried to get tricky and opened it to where I thought I would be ok. Got back in the seat, hooked everything back up and rushed arround to get to the start line in time. I took the green flag and noticed the temp was still pegged. Shut it down in turn 1 and did the same thing only opened the valve to full open. Got back in the race and ended up finishing second with an engine that was cool to the touch. Second heat after having the valve set right the engine was making full HP and I won the heat by a half a lap. (That Daytona on that big course was amazing). Final results Wizard #2 a few seconds behind the winner. We reviewed everything post race and figured I was sabotaged in the pits. Cost me the Nationals Chapionship. Never did the fix I wanted to by putting the valve under the seat so I could get the temp right while underway. PS. Rules stipulated Ski Jet had to use water cooled log manifolds mine were one of the first made by Drake whose design is sim. to most new performance logs now used.

« **Reply #16 on:** May 21, 2010, 06:54:15 PM »

Quote from: Oldsquirt on May 21, 2010, 09:32:56 AM

Ray, it doesn't matter whether it is with logs or injected headers. Water flow control should always be on the inlet to the engine and not the outlet. Restriction of outlet flow is just inviting an overpressure situation.

The JE/JF pumps have the same water supply port as the JC/JG.

Good point! And well said and taken. That being said, I am stymied why I had problems with the header valves. BUT, problem solved! Driver mounted control!

Ray

« **Reply #17 on:** July 09, 2010, 02:14:49 PM »

Thanks for this post Ray. I was wondering on my boat if this was an issue, as the dirga dirga runs with no valves and runs 120-140 all day long. Kinda nice not to see the temps blow up like my old Ford 460 (what a heat pump that beast was). Always had problems with the ford cooling system compared to the bbc (motorhome days).

Makes me wonder if I could drop my powerstroke into the boat. Yahoo!

Quote from: IRRebel on May 20, 2010, 08:02:04 PM

I run all of mine wide open. No thermostats. If you have O/T headers, you'll probably want to run a separate valve to control the water flow into the headers. I haven't had good luck with the Bassett or Rewarder spring valves working right, but other than that, no other valves are necessary on the system.

The valve you have is a rudementary way to increase water temps in the engine, but a better way is off the exit side, not the inlet side, if this is an issue. Or Both.

One of my boats, Moo, with O/T headers, runs 140-160 all day, any day with the valves wide open. The Pickle doesn't seem to get above 120 with no valves on it at all (Logs and O/T pipes).

Ray

« **Reply #18 on:** July 09, 2010, 02:16:18 PM »

nice point!

Quote from: slow67 on May 21, 2010, 09:02:40 AM

I have a ball valve on the hard-line coming in the boat (wide-open) incase I blow a line off (I can shut it and not sink).

« **Reply #19 on:** August 16, 2010, 09:16:04 PM »

So I am installing ball valve and I look at the garcden hose connector and think that those are cheesy. I am putting in higher pressure line up to the basset t and leave that in there? Nah! Playing with. A brass t and a second valve so I can not have that cheesy garden hose connector in line continuously... will post when igeter done...

« **Reply #20 on:** August 16, 2010, 09:27:09 PM »

Quote from: oldmxdog61u on July 09, 2010, 02:14:49 PM

Thanks for this post Ray. I was wondering on my boat if this was an issue, as the dirga dirga runs with no valves and runs 120-140 all day long. Kinda nice not to see the temps blow up like my old Ford 460 (what a heat pump that beast was). Always had problems with the ford cooling system compared to the bbc (motorhome days).

Makes me wonder if I could drop my powerstroke into the boat. Yahoo!

In hindsight, Oldsquirt was more than 100% correct, and having my boat plumbed that way initially, even though I changed it later, more than likely contributed to what happened to that engine. It'a all a learning thing!

Thanks Oldsquirt!!

Ray

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