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JARVIS

  • Karma: +18/-0
Re: Getting hot
« Reply #25 on: August 22, 2014, 01:41:10 PM »
Could there be a restriction from the pump to the block inlet

X2

if you have a valve between pump and block....Check it as well. You can run engine on hose and Check if it over heats. Be sure to squirt some water in bowl....thru intake or hand hole. If it over heats....problem could existon engine side. Also, dont turn hose wide open....you don't need that much pressure. 
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jamminjetta

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Getting hot
« Reply #26 on: August 22, 2014, 02:29:57 PM »
Ran on the hose for a little bit. Got up to about 150. Only opened the hose a little bit. Ain't went to the lake yet. It started raining here


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JOE COASTIE

  • Karma: +4/-0
Re: Getting hot
« Reply #27 on: August 22, 2014, 08:47:24 PM »
Ran on the hose for a little bit. Got up to about 150. Only opened the hose a little bit. Ain't went to the lake yet. It started raining here


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i had same prob i just turned hose on all the way...still steamed but temp went down..just my 2 lol

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JOE COASTIE

  • Karma: +4/-0
Re: Getting hot
« Reply #28 on: August 22, 2014, 08:49:32 PM »
Maybe u did this already but unhook the inlet to the block hook up your hose and make sure that it is not restricted first.
Also how does the oil look?  I mean the water is coming out the exhaust right and not restricted on the exit?
water pressure might just suck like it does in my front yard ..lol

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JARVIS

  • Karma: +18/-0
Re: Getting hot
« Reply #29 on: August 22, 2014, 10:53:53 PM »
did it max out at 150 or did you shut it down?  have you checked pump cooling water port....or look in thru intake...see anything obvious?
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jamminjetta

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Getting hot
« Reply #30 on: August 23, 2014, 06:50:09 AM »
Everything in pump looks fine. I did back flush cooling port and stuck a wire through it backwards.


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JARVIS

  • Karma: +18/-0
Re: Getting hot
« Reply #31 on: August 23, 2014, 09:12:52 AM »
ok, we can scratch that off the list.  do you have any valves between pump and block?  if so, check those to obstructions....if you havent already.  if all is good....we can focus on the engine side.  (do you trust gauge?)
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jamminjetta

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Getting hot
« Reply #32 on: August 23, 2014, 11:58:40 AM »
Yea I guess I trust the gauge. It's a brand new mechanical one. I did check the valve and it's fine too. I just got home from lake. 180 at idle and 150 going faster.


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JARVIS

  • Karma: +18/-0
Re: Getting hot
« Reply #33 on: August 23, 2014, 12:23:32 PM »
Sounds like you may have fixed your problem
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jamminjetta

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Getting hot
« Reply #34 on: August 23, 2014, 02:12:40 PM »
Hopefully it will last the rest of the summer. Maybe this winter new cam and heads.


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JARVIS

  • Karma: +18/-0
Re: Getting hot
« Reply #35 on: August 23, 2014, 02:49:13 PM »
Keep an eye on your temp....and Check that water doesn't get into your oil, that can end a weekend  :mad:
Be safe.
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Flusher

  • Karma: +84/-0
Re: Getting hot
« Reply #36 on: August 23, 2014, 03:52:26 PM »
You might want to add an oil temp gauge.  Water temp doesn't mean a whole lot when you have an entire lake passing through the engine at high velocity.

IMHO, if you dont have a thermostat or restriction to flow, 150F is very hot.  Under way, the water shouldn't have time for that much heat transfer.  Once on the throttle, the temp should drop quick.

It would be nice to know what your oil is doing so you don't cook your engine.

Good luck,

Joe

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"I want to roll with my brother Joe" - Joe Bateman - January 29, 1950 ~ November 27, 2013

jamminjetta

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Getting hot
« Reply #37 on: August 23, 2014, 05:35:49 PM »
I've done all I know to do. What's the next step? Knock out some freeze plugs and check that there ain't more sand in engine


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JARVIS

  • Karma: +18/-0
Re: Getting hot
« Reply #38 on: August 23, 2014, 06:00:28 PM »
yeah....running temp and idle temp have been somewhat of a debate.  some say running temp should be around the 160* mark...with idle seeing maybe 175-180*.  others feel thats too warm.  too cold of an engine reduces efficiency...increases wear(so im told).  do some searching around and choose for yourself as to what temp you wanna run your engine.
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GT Jets

  • Karma: +192/-0
Re: Getting hot
« Reply #39 on: August 23, 2014, 06:36:35 PM »
All marine engines should be run UNDER 160°F....


GT
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Ray

MorePower

  • Karma: +20/-0
Re: Getting hot
« Reply #40 on: August 23, 2014, 07:05:23 PM »

All marine engines should be run UNDER 160°F....


GT

Hey GT, is that under 160 at idle also?


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GT Jets

  • Karma: +192/-0
Re: Getting hot
« Reply #41 on: August 23, 2014, 07:06:06 PM »
Hey GT, is that under 160 at idle also?


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Yup.

GT
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If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

Time to man up and yank it John!  :banghead:
Ray

GT Jets

  • Karma: +192/-0
Re: Getting hot
« Reply #42 on: August 23, 2014, 07:26:33 PM »
Hey GT, is that under 160 at idle also?


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Maybe you need to understand why... This also will cover why I disagree with bypass style thermostats.

When your jet boat motor is at idle, there is little to no block pressure and very low water flow. This lowers the boiling point of water. The higher the pressure, the higher the related boiling point. Having the proper flow will determine the water temperature. That being said, without having the margin of safety of being below 160°F at idle, you run the risk of hot spots (aka, steam pockets) and causing permanent damage to the engine. Basically over heating one or two cylinders (most likely the rear cylinders) and killing parts like valves and pistons.


The reason the motor will cool off while hard under way is the increased water flow through the engine, if set up correctly, the block pressure should go up to about 15 PSI and the temp will typically drop to approximately 15°F up to about 25°F. You can run it warmer, but why? 120°F to 140°F is in my mind perfect.

Bypass thermostats, without the use of a block mounted automotive water pump, cause more problems than they prevent. They work great at WOT, but at idle, can cause these steam pockets to form in the heads and be extremely detrimental. With a block mounted pump, the system works better because the water temperature is more homogeneous.

Another dumb fact is that salt water drops out salts at anything above about 165°F, that means salt can actually block the water passages if left with low flow. Not a real problem in most of our worlds, but betting it could become an issue at say Long Beach Marine Stadium during the races... As an example.


You always hear stories of marine engines "dropping a valve", it is sometimes caused by a very hot cylinder head and causing the valve to stick in the guide until the piston comes up to visit and smacks it right in the face... Not always, but betting 50% of the time. This same issue can cause bent push-rods and broken or pulled head studs...


GT
« Last Edit: August 23, 2014, 07:29:41 PM by GT Jets »
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Ray

jamminjetta

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Getting hot
« Reply #43 on: August 23, 2014, 07:40:13 PM »
I can sure pull my engine and knock out the freeze plugs iff that will help?


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GT Jets

  • Karma: +192/-0
Re: Getting hot
« Reply #44 on: August 23, 2014, 07:46:08 PM »
Do you have any idea what the running block pressure is?

Also too, I sure don't like the looks of the two street 90's and the barb fittings in the top of the intake manifold... Not saying that is the problem, but look suspect to me.

Try to get a temperature coming out of the exhaust manifolds and also out of the block... Does it run good? not popping like it is lean or anything?

GT
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Ray

JARVIS

  • Karma: +18/-0
Re: Getting hot
« Reply #45 on: August 23, 2014, 09:53:06 PM »
Maybe you need to understand why... This also will cover why I disagree with bypass style thermostats.

Bypass thermostats, without the use of a block mounted automotive water pump, cause more problems than they prevent. They work great at WOT, but at idle, can cause these steam pockets to form in the heads and be extremely detrimental. With a block mounted pump, the system works better because the water temperature is more homogeneous.

GT


so, from what ive learned, you should use a bypass t-stat with a bypass manifold. in the bypass position, it recirculates water thru block, bypassing "radiator", so it warms up faster.  then at operating temp....sends water thru radiator, and closes bypass port.  what i dont fully understand is how this is bad in our application.  i understand the automotive water pump circulates water.....does this not happen with the water flow/supply from pump?
please excuse my ignorance....just seeking more knowledge on the subject.... as my engine has a setup i have not seen on these forums.  its a berkeley packajet....  i can look up info on it....but not enough info for me. just vaguely says hows its designed to work and why its better, yada yada....
 
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GT Jets

  • Karma: +192/-0
Re: Getting hot
« Reply #46 on: August 23, 2014, 10:10:52 PM »

so, from what ive learned, you should use a bypass t-stat with a bypass manifold. in the bypass position, it recirculates water thru block, bypassing "radiator", so it warms up faster.  then at operating temp....sends water thru radiator, and closes bypass port. 


Nope... Without a pump to circulate, the water simply just goes "around" the engine. Stopping most of the flow through the engine. Very common misconception.


what i dont fully understand is how this is bad in our application.  i understand the automotive water pump circulates water....

Bingo.


does this not happen with the water flow/supply from pump?
please excuse my ignorance....

No excuse necessary, there is no flow (or a reduction of flow) when the bypass stat systems are used (this is like the one from CP and others).


just seeking more knowledge on the subject.... as my engine has a setup i have not seen on these forums.

Hit me with a picture bubba! Love new chit..


 
its a berkeley packajet....  i can look up info on it....but not enough info for me. just vaguely says hows its designed to work and why its better, yada yada....

Sure enough..


GT
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Ray

JARVIS

  • Karma: +18/-0
Re: Getting hot
« Reply #47 on: August 23, 2014, 11:59:03 PM »

Nope... Without a pump to circulate, the water simply just goes "around" the engine. Stopping most of the flow through the engine. Very common misconception.

i see.  so engine fills with water....then water sits there, stagnate, heating up. if boat has a pressure relief bypass set up then excess water flows thru it.  once t-stat opens....then water 'flows' or moves thru engine. cooling it.  but buy then....engine could have gotten too hot (?)

No excuse necessary, there is no flow (or a reduction of flow) when the bypass stat systems are used (this is like the one from CP and others).

hmm....ok.


Hit me with a picture bubba! Love new chit..

so heres a pic of my set up.  info i found said it was a make up type system.  water from pump enters that housing...then runs thru block and/or gets diverted out to exhaust if t-stat is closed.  when open....it flows thru block and exhaust.  so water always moves thru exhaust and only thur engine when t-stat opens.  it mentions something about a circulating pump....ive tried looking for pics of this set up on line...VERY few if any pics...non of which are disassembled....so i dont know if theres something running off of cam...
system seems to work.  had engine running on hose...i can see gauge rise and fall when t-stat opens....gauge reads way too hot 210*, could be faulty. t-stat is new...160* if i remember right.  previous t-stat stuck closed.  hasnt been in water since. and since then, ive started tearing into it to redo stringers among other things.  doubtful itll get wet this year.
 
Sure enough..


GT
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GT Jets

  • Karma: +192/-0
Re: Getting hot
« Reply #48 on: August 24, 2014, 12:45:33 AM »
The one you have labeled "to circulation pump" needs to have  the arrow flipped around, otherwise yup...

The water simply bypasses the engine when it's cold... No hockus pokus, these actually work OK at WOT, but could cause issues if the thermostat used was warmer than a 160°F.

Still a bypass system.

GT
« Last Edit: August 24, 2014, 12:47:47 AM by GT Jets »
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If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

Time to man up and yank it John!  :banghead:
Ray

MorePower

  • Karma: +20/-0
Re: Getting hot
« Reply #49 on: August 24, 2014, 10:10:45 AM »
Thanks for the clarification GT, I had mine set at 140 at cruise if I'd go straight to idle it would touch 170-175 then even out around 160-165...


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