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Nick

  • Karma: +1/-0
Oil Pan Question
« on: March 08, 2009, 10:16:23 PM »
I am most likely going to be pulling my motor before the summer to re-paint it. I also need to put in new oil pan gasket because it's leaking and I got to thinking.....(this can sometimes be bad)

Since I am going to have the motor out and I am going to be messing with the oil pan should I just go to a 10 qt pan???? I know they can be a bit spendy but I think it would be better than the stock pan that I have with the deep side in the front.

So my question is that if I go to a 10qt pan from my stock pan do I have to put in a new oil pump?

Thanks guys....
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GT Jets

  • Karma: +192/-0
Re: Oil Pan Question
« Reply #1 on: March 08, 2009, 10:24:40 PM »
I am most likely going to be pulling my motor before the summer to re-paint it. I also need to put in new oil pan gasket because it's leaking and I got to thinking.....(this can sometimes be bad)

Since I am going to have the motor out and I am going to be messing with the oil pan should I just go to a 10 qt pan???? I know they can be a bit spendy but I think it would be better than the stock pan that I have with the deep side in the front.

So my question is that if I go to a 10qt pan from my stock pan do I have to put in a new oil pump?

Thanks guys....

No, not really, the pick up may need to be replaced and it may be welded (tack) to the pump but you should be able to get it off w/o too much hassle, that being said, oil pumps are pretty cheap and easy to replace...

FWIW my oil pickup is a GM deal that is the preffered pick up for my pan (Dooley) because they use an OEM pan to build the bigger dealio. Just make sure you're between 1/4" to 3/8" between the pick up and the pan bottom, otherwise let her roll  8)

BTW, Tom at JBP has a pretty nice pan avail. for the price...

GT
  • Boat #1: 1992 Carrera 20.5 Elite (I/O bitches)
  • Boat #2: 19' Bubble deck Jet BBC Berkeley
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If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

Time to man up and yank it John!  :banghead:
Ray

IRRebel

  • Karma: +16/-0
Re: Oil Pan Question
« Reply #2 on: March 09, 2009, 03:00:31 AM »
FWIW I put a Milodon on mine. It required a Melling M84 pump and a Milodon pickup. Already had the pump in the motor, so that was easy. Don't know about the dooley tho. Mines also a BBF. Tight fit, but I feel it's worth it, not only for the extra capacity, but with the windage tray and trap doors and baffles. Should keep the oil on the pickup head.

Ray
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"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways totally worn out shouting 'Holy Shit what a ride!"---Crewcheif22 AKA Keith

Nick

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Oil Pan Question
« Reply #3 on: March 09, 2009, 07:04:46 AM »
FWIW I put a Milodon on mine. It required a Melling M84 pump and a Milodon pickup. Already had the pump in the motor, so that was easy. Don't know about the dooley tho. Mines also a BBF. Tight fit, but I feel it's worth it, not only for the extra capacity, but with the windage tray and trap doors and baffles. Should keep the oil on the pickup head.

Ray

Thanks Ray, and it's worth a lot to know what other ford guys are doing. So you already had the pump huh, what did the trey and pickup cost you if you dont mind my asking?
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LakesOnly

  • Karma: +15/-0
Re: Oil Pan Question
« Reply #4 on: March 09, 2009, 08:52:37 AM »
The 460 Marine engines came with a front sump Cobra Jet oil pan.  They hold 6 quarts and have an integral windage tray that also helps keep oil around the pickup.  For a front sump pan, they do pretty well in a jet boat...remember, they had to keep oil around the pickup in a car with tires on asphalt/doing hard acceleration (much more g-force than a jet boat at launch).

So, whether or not you "need" a 10-quart pan depends on how you run your boat.  That being said, a full-length rear sump large capacity pan certainly wouldn't hurt and would be a very smart move if you run your boat hard.  When your pan comes off for pan gasket replacement, what you need to do is at least confirm that you have a CJ oil pan that has the windage tray.  If you have a bone stock passenger car pan (no tray), then replace it with a rear sump jet boat pan for sure.

When changing from a front sump to rear sump oil pan, you need the pickup that goes with that specific pan and you usually have to also change from a front sump-style oil pump (M84B) to a rear sump style oil pump (M84D).  Some jet boat pan manufacturers offer two different pickup tubes for a given jet boat pan, one for each type of pump..so you need to know which pump you have if you keep your existing pump and order only a pan & pickup.

LO
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We're on the web; click below:
High Flow Dynamics

Nick

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Oil Pan Question
« Reply #5 on: March 09, 2009, 08:59:10 AM »
The 460 Marine engines came with a front sump Cobra Jet oil pan.  They hold 6 quarts and have an integral windage tray that also helps keep oil around the pickup.  For a front sump pan, they do pretty well in a jet boat...remember, they had to keep oil around the pickup in a car with tires on asphalt/doing hard acceleration (much more g-force than a jet boat at launch).

So, whether or not you "need" a 10-quart pan depends on how you run your boat.  That being said, a full-length rear sump large capacity pan certainly wouldn't hurt and would be a very smart move if you run your boat hard.  When your pan comes off for pan gasket replacement, what you need to do is at least confirm that you have a CJ oil pan that has the windage tray.  If you have a bone stock passenger car pan (no tray), then replace it with a rear sump jet boat pan for sure.

When changing from a front sump to rear sump oil pan, you need the pickup that goes with that specific pan and you usually have to also change from a front sump-style oil pump (M84B) to a rear sump style oil pump (M84D).  Some jet boat pan manufacturers offer two different pickup tubes for a given jet boat pan, one for each type of pump..so you need to know which pump you have if you keep your existing pump and order only a pan & pickup.

LO


Thanks LakesOnly, I've heard you are the FORD man around these parts...

So just to confirm, do I need to get the pan off to find out about weather or not this pan could be a keeper? Or is thier a part number to look for?
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IRRebel

  • Karma: +16/-0
Re: Oil Pan Question
« Reply #6 on: March 09, 2009, 02:55:20 PM »
I paid around $78 for the pickup and I think $389 for the pan, without looking it up. But trust me, was a nail biter as to whether it would clear. Even had to sawzall out a u-shaped steel rod that was welded across from left to right motor mounts under the old pan. Still don't know what that was for, I would think the engine block is far more rigid that a 3/8" piece of bent rebar (Is what it looked like actually) would be, so I have no idea what it was meant to support. JIC I made another version of it and put that between the stringers under the dampner.

Ray
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"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways totally worn out shouting 'Holy Shit what a ride!"---Crewcheif22 AKA Keith

jet boat performance

  • Karma: +25/-0
Re: Oil Pan Question
« Reply #7 on: March 09, 2009, 09:23:42 PM »
Eight inch "rail to base" of pan is too much and will literally set on the intake before it will "allow" proper D/L alignment , thats why we build our pans at 7 3/4 max depth . sagged/seasoned  mtr mounts exacerbate this problem as well I might add ! Tom
JBP river racer pan 
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The Truth

Re: Oil Pan Question
« Reply #8 on: March 09, 2009, 09:42:24 PM »
JBP river racer pan 


Or knock off of a pan somebody spent time & money doing the R&D on? You be the judge.................................. .......
« Last Edit: March 09, 2009, 09:46:24 PM by The Truth »
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GlassCutter

  • Karma: +31/-0
Re: Oil Pan Question
« Reply #9 on: March 09, 2009, 09:53:55 PM »
It took you 3 hours to type your first post and that is what you open up with? 


Man Hot Boat dies and the drama just spreads everywhere . . .  :screwy:
  • Boat #1: 1973  Wriedt Montara 23
  • Boat #2: 1978 Spectra 20 460/Berkley
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Also, I will kiss bare male ass in the middle of the Vegas Strip  . . .  I will post pics if I need to.  --  IRRebel 2013

"Go ahead Rivertard does it.  Take a video though."

"If you did it in a dodge it would have shifted perfectly ran a thousand miles per hour and got optimum fuel mileage!"  Nordie  2012

crewchief22

  • Karma: +66/-0
Re: Oil Pan Question
« Reply #10 on: March 09, 2009, 09:55:25 PM »
Or knock off of a pan somebody spent time & money doing the R&D on? You be the judge.................................. .......

Sounds to me that the guys at JBP did the research to build a better pan,   that actually fits.


BTW, welcome to the site  ;D
  • Boat #1: '77 Hondo Pantera GT Jet
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"Racing is life!  Anything that happens before or after, is just waiting"    Steve McQueen

The problem with America is stupidity. I'm not saying there should be a capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?

Luckie Stiff

  • Karma: +29/-0
Re: Oil Pan Question
« Reply #11 on: March 09, 2009, 09:57:17 PM »
It took you 3 hours to type your first post and that is what you open up with? 


Man Hot Boat dies and the drama just spreads everywhere . . .  :screwy:

And you're helping to curb the drama how?  :screwy:
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"Don't you realize that there are already enough people in the world to hate without you putting so much effort into giving me another?"

GT Jets

  • Karma: +192/-0
Re: Oil Pan Question
« Reply #12 on: March 09, 2009, 10:00:24 PM »
Or knock off of a pan somebody spent time & money doing the R&D on? You be the judge.................................. .......

 For the record....how many ways are there to build an oil pan that looks real different from another?

GT
  • Boat #1: 1992 Carrera 20.5 Elite (I/O bitches)
  • Boat #2: 19' Bubble deck Jet BBC Berkeley
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If i get some free time tonight at work, ill play with it and post it for everyone to see.

Time to man up and yank it John!  :banghead:
Ray

GlassCutter

  • Karma: +31/-0
Re: Oil Pan Question
« Reply #13 on: March 09, 2009, 10:05:02 PM »
And you're helping to curb the drama how?  :screwy:
I read this as someone making his first impression here by accusing JBP of profiting unfairly from the work of another.  This shows Tom in a light that I think is unwarranted at best, and for a first post, it is at the least rude.
How did you read it?
  • Boat #1: 1973  Wriedt Montara 23
  • Boat #2: 1978 Spectra 20 460/Berkley
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Also, I will kiss bare male ass in the middle of the Vegas Strip  . . .  I will post pics if I need to.  --  IRRebel 2013

"Go ahead Rivertard does it.  Take a video though."

"If you did it in a dodge it would have shifted perfectly ran a thousand miles per hour and got optimum fuel mileage!"  Nordie  2012

electrowoman

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Oil Pan Question
« Reply #14 on: March 10, 2009, 12:38:31 AM »
Check out these pictures,  the gold pan is milodon the silver is Armondo's.   Ford 460 pans.

I started out with the milodon.  It caused an oil pressure drop around 4400 RPM' which I never had with the stock 6 quart pan.  IT TOOK MONTHS FIGHTING WITH MILODON TO GET THEM TO ADMIT THEY HAD A PROBLEM WITH THE PAN BUT THEY FINIALLY DID.  They took it back and refunded my money. 

The Armondo's pan cured the problem completely.  You will need to cut the cross bar between mounts with any 10 quart pan.   Armondo's is like $400. including the pick up.  It's a very well built unit.

I put a SS plate across the bottom of the boat under my mounts incase they sagged.  It wasn't needed.

Please do yourself a favor and DONT BUY the MILODON PAN!

Tom, what's your pan laid out like inside? 

Good luck with which ever pan you go with.  I hope you don't have to go through the bad experiance I had.   Thank you all again on this board that pointed out to me that the pan was the issue.

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The Truth

Re: Oil Pan Question
« Reply #15 on: March 10, 2009, 05:31:49 AM »
I read this as someone making his first impression here by accusing JBP of profiting unfairly from the work of another.  This shows Tom in a light that I think is unwarranted at best, and for a first post, it is at the least rude.
How did you read it?

Take it how you will, I just call them like I see them.  Sure seems to me that JBP is "manufacturing" a lot of stuff these days, makes me wonder when they had the time to design, develop, test and adjust then finally market all this new product. As for showing Tom in an unwarranted light, well let's just say that people put themselves in the light you see them in, I see shade.

Truth
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Luckie Stiff

  • Karma: +29/-0
Re: Oil Pan Question
« Reply #16 on: March 10, 2009, 05:33:24 AM »
EW-

You're not the first person to have oiling issues with the Milodon pans on a BBF, you did good to buy that Armando's pan, those are some damn nice units. (heh heh heh I said unit  ;D heh heh heh)
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"Don't you realize that there are already enough people in the world to hate without you putting so much effort into giving me another?"

Nick

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Oil Pan Question
« Reply #17 on: March 10, 2009, 07:04:16 AM »
You guys have been more than helpful on this one. Thanks for all the advice, I am sorry that Tom's name got dragged thru the mud, I of coarse did not intend for that to happen-he's never done me wrong. Seems like the piece he has is just as nice as all the others to me...

So at the end of the day it sounds like the way to go is either the Armondo's or the JBP...and no mattter what I am looking at a $400 investment.

Ok that is all I needed to know guys, thanks a lot. As always, I will post up under "Nick's Hallett Resto" when I do something.

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IRRebel

  • Karma: +16/-0
Re: Oil Pan Question
« Reply #18 on: March 10, 2009, 05:42:42 PM »
Quote
Take it how you will, I just call them like I see them.  Sure seems to me that JBP is "manufacturing" a lot of stuff these days, makes me wonder when they had the time to design, develop, test and adjust then finally market all this new product. As for showing Tom in an unwarranted light, well let's just say that people put themselves in the light you see them in, I see shade.

Truth

Don't worry about it Nick. Every court has it's jesters. Not your fault.

Ray
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"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways totally worn out shouting 'Holy Shit what a ride!"---Crewcheif22 AKA Keith

SnoC653

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Oil Pan Question
« Reply #19 on: March 10, 2009, 07:01:56 PM »
Take it how you will, I just call them like I see them.  Sure seems to me that JBP is "manufacturing" a lot of stuff these days, makes me wonder when they had the time to design, develop, test and adjust then finally market all this new product. As for showing Tom in an unwarranted light, well let's just say that people put themselves in the light you see them in, I see shade.

Truth

For someone that creates a new account to cast shadows of dispersion on someones reputation you at least have nerve.  As I see it the shade you see is caused by the poor light you are trying to shine.   But, how many ways do you think there is to design a oil pan?  And if you are going to deal in inuendo at least have a frame of refrence.  You posted the side view of Tom's pan and the inside view of two other pans.  No comparison can be made from those totally different views.  And the way most retailers develope new products is to develope a concept and then hire a contracter to produce a proof design based on that concept.  Then the vender approves the proof or requests modifications which are made as needed, by the contracter, and then a final proof is made.  Once approved and blessed by the retailer/designer the part is produced and retailed. 
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2savage4you

  • Karma: +14/-1
Re: Oil Pan Question
« Reply #20 on: March 10, 2009, 07:35:26 PM »
Take it how you will, I just call them like I see them.  Sure seems to me that JBP is "manufacturing" a lot of stuff these days, makes me wonder when they had the time to design, develop, test and adjust then finally market all this new product. As for showing Tom in an unwarranted light, well let's just say that people put themselves in the light you see them in, I see shade.

Truth


Hey Truth set yourself free and get the fuk outa here.....

Yes i am a very happy customer of JBP along with many others.......
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jet boat performance

  • Karma: +25/-0
Re: Oil Pan Question
« Reply #21 on: March 10, 2009, 08:17:29 PM »
Truth , Welcome to the boards ,Don't Know who you are nor do I  understand what we did or what you percieve we did to desrerve that kind of accusation and comment ? The guy whos build my pans has been building pans for twenty plus years, they are built from new pan cores and they are really not like the other offerings with maybe the exeption of the irridite finish and shape , Have we (JBP) done something to personally offend you ? or wronged you in some way ?  If this is the case give me the chance to talk to you about it  me and lets chat, my cell is coming to you in a PM  Tom
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povertyjet

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Oil Pan Question
« Reply #22 on: March 10, 2009, 08:27:51 PM »
well let's just say that people put themselves in the light you see them in, I see shade.

What shit are you smoking??  Give your dad back his computer, and read back just a month's worth of Tom's posts and the information and service he brings to this site...you are an idiot...

welcome to the site, we're gonna miss you
  • Boat #1: '73 Kona
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[smg id=6256]
I'll keep my freedom, my money and my guns...you keep the "change"
U.S. out of the United Nations, support HR2202, reinstate prop 187, waterboard all of them!!!

SnoC653

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Oil Pan Question
« Reply #23 on: March 10, 2009, 08:39:43 PM »
The only problem I see with your pans Tom, is that you don't make one for a Mopar.   :banghead:  But there is a price we pay for being different.  You have more than enough of the right stuff in all the other flavors.  And most importantly all your parts come with free advice and wisdom when wanted. 
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electrowoman

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Oil Pan Question
« Reply #24 on: March 10, 2009, 08:42:36 PM »
I just wanted to clear up a mistaken comment.  

I posted the two side by side pans for referance between Milodon and Armondo's pan.  I have nothing in this issue between Truth and Tom.  

I personally appreciate having Tom on here to steer us in the right direction.   His experiance is greatly appreciated on my part and is considered priceless.  This site up till this incident has been nothing but positive, educational and fun.

Again, my pictures were posted to help steer people away from the  "Milidon"  pan and the oil pressure dropping problem it created in my 460.

I personally will be doing business with Tom as soon as this business slump turns around.  

Why would you post an attack on someone here?  Who the ####  are you anyway??
Do you remember the old saying  "You can't cure stupid"?

I hope that isn't your problem.

Tom, I hope you didn't think I was taking Truth's side in any way shape or form.




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