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schick

  • Karma: +0/-0
Vacuum Bagging
« on: November 02, 2008, 08:36:12 AM »
 Hello, I have a project boat. I am going to replace the stringers in. The boat is very light, and I would like to add as much strength as possible. I am looking for information, past experience, and knowledge on vacuum bagging. Pro’s and con’s. I am also interested in use of carbon fiber in the process. Any and all information would be great. Thanks for your time.
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SLCKREG

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Vacuum Bagging
« Reply #1 on: November 02, 2008, 08:21:00 PM »
I don't know how much you do or don't know , if you're talking vacuum bagging you're prolly beyond me. But fwiw I'd check into west systems epoxy, and also consider making a jig to hold the stringers in place while things cure. What ever you do, don't use generic resin from home depot. :o :sly:
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schick

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Vacuum Bagging
« Reply #2 on: November 02, 2008, 09:13:46 PM »
 Thanks for the imput. I was thinking, I'm going to vacuum bag the stringers then install them into the boat with vacuum. Thanks for your time, schick
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Brad @ SCJB

  • Karma: +255/-0
Re: Vacuum Bagging
« Reply #3 on: November 02, 2008, 09:16:11 PM »
just curious....why are you replacing the stringers in the boat? are they rotted?
  • Boat #1: 1978 Liberty
  • Boat #2: 1982 Eliminator Sprint
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schick

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Vacuum Bagging
« Reply #4 on: November 03, 2008, 06:19:52 PM »
 They are badly delaminated. I believe the two outer stringers are rotted, they flex in a radius when you push on them. If that makes sense.
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wizard612

  • Karma: +4/-0
Re: Vacuum Bagging
« Reply #5 on: November 06, 2008, 08:18:24 AM »
Curious, how are you engineering the new stringers. Have you figured out a laminate schedule that gives you the strength and stiffness you need or are you winging it?
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schick

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Vacuum Bagging
« Reply #6 on: November 06, 2008, 09:17:13 PM »
I’m still working on the process, trying to collect information. I have an idea of what I’m going to do, but haven’t had any one tell me if it’s right or wrong. I haven’t had much input at all, which is kind of scaring me.
 I have a friend who owns a boat repair shop, he use to race a alcohol drag boat called Hydrophobia. I’ll have him look it over.
 The big concern I have is, if the stringers are super stiff and rigid, when the boat flexes, if the stringers do not will they separate from each other, (stringers away from the boat). This is my concern about using carbon fiber. If you ARE looking for the stringers to be super stiff and rigid then this should not be a problem. I’m still looking for the answer.
 I was thinking wet lay-up the stringers, and vacuum bag as many times as needed. Then after fitting the stringers to the boat, wet lay-up and vacuum bag them into the hull, as many times as needed.
 Any and all input appreciated. Thanks, schick
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wizard612

  • Karma: +4/-0
Re: Vacuum Bagging
« Reply #7 on: November 11, 2008, 08:10:15 AM »
I know this sounds like a lot of work but you could rig up some kind of fixture that would test the deflection of a wood/glass stringer by putting a load on it like setting the ends up on blocks and hanging a bunch of weights at mid span ( test it with the stringer upside down too) and measure how much the stringer flexes with additional weight.  Then as you are building up your CF stringer test it the same way slowly building up the weight and the laminations until it equals the deflection curve of the wood stringer.  Weigh the two and see how much you save in weight.  Interesting backyard engineering project!
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78CoLe

  • Karma: +3/-0
Re: Vacuum Bagging
« Reply #8 on: December 09, 2008, 07:48:47 PM »
what type of boat you working on
  • Boat #1: 76 Hallett Mini Cruiser
  • Boat #2: 84 D'Cucci Starfire v-drive SS/PS
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Stevecat

  • Karma: +2/-0
Re: Vacuum Bagging
« Reply #9 on: December 09, 2008, 08:28:00 PM »
When I replaced my 1.5" wide wood stringers I said "nothing organic below the floor" so I used twin 1" wide surfboard foam laminated together with West sys epoxy to make a 2" wide stringer. I used jigs and clamps to hold them in place and shaved their bottoms to follow the contour of the hull reasonably close (but there was still a gap). Then I tack glassed them in a few places like every 3' and after that cured I ran blue tape the along the inboard side along their length to form a dam. Then I poured west epoxy resin on the outboard side (uphill) and it ran down hill into the tape dam. I kept doing this until it filled the gap between the bottom of my stringer and the inside skin of the hull. That was my "weld" between the stringer and the hull.

Then I used bondo to make a nice smooth fillet along both sides of the stringer/hull corners. Then 2-3 layers of cloth tape and resin. Then 2 layers of glass over the entire sides and top of the stringers & also over the tape area too.

All of this was pure out of my ass with no calculations but worried about the same thing you are. I knew I had to have some flex but not too much and not too little.

I'm only 1 summer into the McGuyvered stringers but so far so good. However I am just a mellow water skiier and showoff, not a drag boat.
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Boatless
The older I get, the better I was.

schick

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Vacuum Bagging
« Reply #10 on: December 10, 2008, 06:17:44 PM »
 The information I have is it's a Liberty custom sprint . This particular hull has no HIN (hull identification number). I was told this is because it was made only to race requiring on CF numbers to gain access to public waterways. Made between 1976-79. It’s a four-stringer boat, made to circle race. The hull weights 490 lbs. with no gear in it. If I can answer any other questions, please ask. schick
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Ralph Brunt

  • Karma: +51/-0
Re: Vacuum Bagging
« Reply #11 on: December 10, 2008, 06:33:21 PM »
The information I have is it's a Liberty custom sprint . This particular hull has no HIN (hull identification number). I was told this is because it was made only to race requiring on CF numbers to gain access to public waterways. Made between 1976-79. It’s a four-stringer boat, made to circle race. The hull weights 490 lbs. with no gear in it. If I can answer any other questions, please ask. schick
did you get this boat from jim rich
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CHEAP, FAST, RELIABLE...PICK 2 CANT HAVE ALL 3
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They are all fukin tasty. My long time favorite, "Dirty Dicks -beerjet-
Glasscutter, Skip, OC2  Nordie and many more nail me good every time, relentlessly, I love those guys!

78CoLe

  • Karma: +3/-0
Re: Vacuum Bagging
« Reply #12 on: December 10, 2008, 09:10:07 PM »
if you look closely on the back it looks like hin # filled in on the back boat was a registered az boat for awhile i had this boat for awhile
  • Boat #1: 76 Hallett Mini Cruiser
  • Boat #2: 84 D'Cucci Starfire v-drive SS/PS
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schick

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Vacuum Bagging
« Reply #13 on: December 11, 2008, 06:11:35 PM »
    Ralph, I bought the boat from Jim Brock.
 78cole, I’m looking for more information, and history on the boat, can you help? Why did you sell? Was there any rigging in the boat when you sold it? If this is the same hull, how or why was it sunk? What caused the deck to delaminate? Any information is appreciated. schick
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Ralph Brunt

  • Karma: +51/-0
Re: Vacuum Bagging
« Reply #14 on: December 11, 2008, 06:36:17 PM »
    Ralph, I bought the boat from Jim Brock.
 78cole, I’m looking for more information, and history on the boat, can you help? Why did you sell? Was there any rigging in the boat when you sold it? If this is the same hull, how or why was it sunk? What caused the deck to delaminate? Any information is appreciated. schick
he got it from jim rich, any way lets see some pics
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CHEAP, FAST, RELIABLE...PICK 2 CANT HAVE ALL 3
Quote
They are all fukin tasty. My long time favorite, "Dirty Dicks -beerjet-
Glasscutter, Skip, OC2  Nordie and many more nail me good every time, relentlessly, I love those guys!

78CoLe

  • Karma: +3/-0
Re: Vacuum Bagging
« Reply #15 on: December 11, 2008, 07:56:40 PM »
boat got sunk at a lake in phx. area delamned cause 1. he was supposedly hauling ass 2. it stayed there for a month or so i was told till the guy got it back up boat used to have a really bitchen adjustable loader and jim did a good job of striping the rest omar has the fin from it not sure were the plates made it off to
  • Boat #1: 76 Hallett Mini Cruiser
  • Boat #2: 84 D'Cucci Starfire v-drive SS/PS
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beerjet

  • Karma: +81/-0
Re: Vacuum Bagging
« Reply #16 on: December 11, 2008, 09:04:54 PM »
I was told that the boat was rigged for drag racing originally .

-beerjet-
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i dont but im all for stuffin shit in her ass to make her go away :-*

78CoLe

  • Karma: +3/-0
Re: Vacuum Bagging
« Reply #17 on: December 12, 2008, 08:07:03 PM »
who told you that jim ::)
  • Boat #1: 76 Hallett Mini Cruiser
  • Boat #2: 84 D'Cucci Starfire v-drive SS/PS
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beerjet

  • Karma: +81/-0
Re: Vacuum Bagging
« Reply #18 on: December 12, 2008, 08:08:59 PM »
who told you that jim ::)
A guy who built the liberty's for a while .

-beerjet-
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i dont but im all for stuffin shit in her ass to make her go away :-*

78CoLe

  • Karma: +3/-0
Re: Vacuum Bagging
« Reply #19 on: December 12, 2008, 08:14:55 PM »
who then
  • Boat #1: 76 Hallett Mini Cruiser
  • Boat #2: 84 D'Cucci Starfire v-drive SS/PS
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78CoLe

  • Karma: +3/-0
Re: Vacuum Bagging
« Reply #20 on: December 12, 2008, 08:15:40 PM »
why would they put 4 stringers in a drag hull
  • Boat #1: 76 Hallett Mini Cruiser
  • Boat #2: 84 D'Cucci Starfire v-drive SS/PS
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beerjet

  • Karma: +81/-0
Re: Vacuum Bagging
« Reply #21 on: December 12, 2008, 08:38:24 PM »
why would they put 4 stringers in a drag hull
Because it's paper thin . Not to mention there is no wood in the floor .

-beerjet-
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i dont but im all for stuffin shit in her ass to make her go away :-*

78CoLe

  • Karma: +3/-0
Re: Vacuum Bagging
« Reply #22 on: December 12, 2008, 10:49:45 PM »
wood in the floor is old old school my son paper thin with additional support = circle boat/ paper thin no addtional support=throw away drag boat
  • Boat #1: 76 Hallett Mini Cruiser
  • Boat #2: 84 D'Cucci Starfire v-drive SS/PS
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beerjet

  • Karma: +81/-0
Re: Vacuum Bagging
« Reply #23 on: December 13, 2008, 10:30:48 AM »
wood in the floor is old old school my son paper thin with additional support = circle boat/ paper thin no addtional support=throw away drag boat
What do you want me to tell you , I wasnt building them . He could be confused about how his statemnet came out . Besides , 98% of the boats I've seen that were set up for endurance racing do not have four stringers .

Wood in the floor is old school  ??? of course it is but people still do it that way . I haven't seen a new circle boat made with four stringers in , I dont know . forever  ???

Kind of makes you wonder why Joey Cucci didnt built the "Splash" with four stringers and no wood in the floor , what about the "douces wild" What about every single Liberty I've ever seen . This one to me was odity as far Liberty's go . Super cool . Just never seen a liberty built like that . I wonder which guys built it and what there explanation is for this set-up.

BTW , is your motor still spitting oil at you ???  ;D

-beerjet-
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i dont but im all for stuffin shit in her ass to make her go away :-*

78CoLe

  • Karma: +3/-0
Re: Vacuum Bagging
« Reply #24 on: December 13, 2008, 12:40:45 PM »
motor only spit oil during it's maiden voyage i fu@#ed up the front seal when i put it togetherhows your motor doing get it ready for your race boat :sly: what boat has wood in the floor non of the decucci boats do and thats my point super light weight boat for drag racing would only need 2 small stringers not 4 thats why it had 4
  • Boat #1: 76 Hallett Mini Cruiser
  • Boat #2: 84 D'Cucci Starfire v-drive SS/PS
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