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Messages - obnoxious001

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276
Engine Mechanical / Electrical / Re: Mark IV, Gen V, Gen VI
« on: February 25, 2011, 09:27:13 PM »
Quote from: LakesOnly on February 25, 2011, 07:45:44 PM
Ha! You think your confused now, wait till you read my summarization of the mess that Chevfrolet created:

  • The Gen V & VI blocks have the oil passageway alongside the cam and into the lifter valley instead of down the oil pan rail as on the Mark IV.   The oil pans do not interchange between these blocks and in fact, the Gen V & VI use a one piece rear main seal and different oil pan then the Mark IV.
  • Timing covers were changed between all three block configurations.
  • The Gen VI uses a cam thrust plate, not the Mark IV.  But the Gen V and Mark IV also have provisions to use this plate if a Gen VI cam was to be used.
  • The oil filter boss on the Mark IV uses a bolt-in adapter with an oil pressure relief inside, while the Gen V & VI filters mate straight to the block with a screw-in adapter and push-in oil pressure relief valves into the block itself.
  • Both Gen V & VI do not have a fuel pump boss, while the Mark IV does.
  • The Gen VI lifter bores are longer/higher with a machined flat surface to accept the roller lifters and their retianers; Gen V and Mark IV blocks cannot use the Gen 6 roller lifter and would need aftermarket.
  • Coolant flow on both the Gen V and VI were redesigned to increase flow...coolant passages were also made larger on the Gen V and Gen VI, therefore making it more difficult to use Mark IV heads on these newer blocks (though people have done it with some success).
  • The 10.200 "Tall Decks" are a different animal altogether.
  • Etcetera

LO

LO

I have a great deal of respect for your knowledge, but part of the reason for changes between Gen 5 and Gen 6 was so that the Gen 6 block is able to run MK IV style heads.

Also, at least some of the Gen 5 and/or 6 blocks do have fuel pump bosses(although most do not),, can't tell you which, maybe just tall deck truck blocks, would need to look and see what I currently have here.  Along that same subject, some Gen 5/6 cams have fuel pump lobes on them, some do not.

277
Engine Mechanical / Electrical / Re: freeze plug
« on: February 25, 2011, 12:20:12 AM »
Quote from: enginedoctor on February 24, 2011, 11:14:02 PM
Replace all plugs and press test...plugs are less than 10 bucks people.  use brass only  :screwy:

I think brass plugs used to cost $10 for a set,, don't think anyone is selling them for that still? 

278
Engine Mechanical / Electrical / Re: Mark IV, Gen V, Gen VI
« on: February 24, 2011, 10:55:31 AM »
The 8.1 liter 496 was kind of a "bastard" engine,, don't bother looking for one.  They did have a stroked crank, no increased bore to make the cubic inches, and no "regular" Chevy stuff will work with it,, made from about 2001-2009 by what I have seen. 

"Important differences between the Vortec 8100 and older big blocks include a changed firing order (1-8-7-2-6-5-4-3), a new 18-bolt head bolt pattern, different symmetrical intake ports, different oil pan rails and the use of metric threads throughout the engine."

279
Engine Mechanical / Electrical / Re: rebuilding carb...
« on: February 24, 2011, 09:59:32 AM »
I would suggest not removing the butterflies due to having to get them properly aligned when you put them back in.  Are you using aerosol carb cleaner and they won't clean up? 

280
Engine Mechanical / Electrical / Re: Bolting Engine Hoist
« on: February 23, 2011, 11:31:32 PM »
Quote from: ka0tyk on February 23, 2011, 08:31:03 PM
*I* am not a fan of the intake plate mounts for lifting the engine.  the intake was NEVER designed to be a structural part of the engine, sure its thick and u could prolly drive a car over it, but about 600 pounds hanging off of it?  no thanks



I have never seen an issue lifting by the manifold, although many we do that way are sbc.  I did lift a tunnel ram 632 complete engine that way recently, as I said,, one piece intake should not be a problem,, got 12 bolts holding it,,, certainly safer than a carb plate with four 5/16" bolts or studs

281
Engine Mechanical / Electrical / Re: Mark IV, Gen V, Gen VI
« on: February 23, 2011, 11:27:17 PM »
Quote from: crewchief22 on February 23, 2011, 09:44:56 PM
If I was starting from scratch... I would look for a deal on a decent core for either a Mark IV or a Gen 6 because....

The Mark IV because of the huge availability of good used parts and decent pricing on the required new parts

The Gen 6 because of the improved designs and bigger cubic inch cores to start with (8.1L/496ci without an aftermarket stroker crank)

I would stay away from the Gen 5 unless you already have one and don't want to use it as a planter.

Parts pricing on Gen 5 and 6 stuff is virtually the same as MK IV,,,

As I pointed out,, Gen 5 should probably be limited to GM late model heads, but 088's are ok

How do you build a 496 from a Gen 6 454 block without stroking it?  Are you saying the Gen 6 454 will bore beyond the .060" that GM recommends?

282
Engine Mechanical / Electrical / Re: Bolting Engine Hoist
« on: February 23, 2011, 07:44:50 PM »
Quote from: Tancilitis on February 23, 2011, 06:54:43 PM
I was curious if anyone knows the best place/technique on attaching an engine hoist to a 454.  Where to bolt to?


thanks

joe

There are a variety of ways that are safe and easy.  I use straps instead of chain, but either can work.  With a one piece tunnel ram or single plane intake sometimes I put the strap through the intake.  The straps I use are rated for about 2500 lbs.  If there is no exhaust on the heads, I sometimes use 4 3/8" bolts, one at each corner,, or there should also be some 3/8" bolt holes in the end of the threads on the outboard side.  The advantage of using the exhaust is the bolts angle down, less chance the straps can come off.  If you use chain, it's a good idea to use some heavy washers on the bolts.   You can do it one a single piece of chain if necessary,, opposite corners of the engine.

283
Engine Mechanical / Electrical / Re: Mark IV, Gen V, Gen VI
« on: February 23, 2011, 10:59:24 AM »
Quote from: OC2Vegas on February 23, 2011, 10:11:48 AM
With the different Gens of 454's out there I wanted to see what all of your opinions are on the different blocks. I know some of the difference's on them but  go ahead and list what you know about them, but most of all list what you like and dont like about them.

Lets try not to turn this into a Chevy vs Ford thread...

They all work fine, assuming they are assembled correctly.  Some guys are "afraid" of the newer Gen 5 and 6 blocks, but they actually have improved oiling developed by GM.  The Gen 6 was designed to work better with aftermarket and MK IV cylinder heads.  Gen 5 and Gen 6 blocks both have different style timing covers, but use the same oil pan.   The other thing is most of the Gen 5 and 6 (not all) do not have provision for a mechanical fuel pump.

284
Engine Mechanical / Electrical / Re: Oil pan info
« on: February 23, 2011, 10:52:41 AM »
Quote from: SuperDuty on February 22, 2011, 08:56:37 PM
Hey, Im building a motor finally and need to know where to find an oil pan pickup tube? Im having no luck. Its a GIL and Im not sure the quart amount. I was hoping to find a website that would show me what to measure and where I can order the damn pickup! Thanks.

Put a straight edge across the pan rails about where the oil pump pickup should be, and measure the depth of the pan.  Once you have that information there are a number of different brands of pickups you can buy.  Also, you didn't mention which engine it's for.

285
Engine Mechanical / Electrical / Re: procomp elec fabricated valve covers...
« on: February 20, 2011, 11:28:14 AM »
Quote from: NORDIC454 on February 20, 2011, 10:34:30 AM
It might be pretty damn bitchen to get them engraved with the Nordic logo, with the serpent on it

That should be possible, depends if it's worth paying the setup charge to get one set done?

286
Engine Mechanical / Electrical / Re: procomp elec fabricated valve covers...
« on: February 20, 2011, 11:25:26 AM »
Quote from: Nixonnow on February 19, 2011, 09:16:44 PM
I'd be willing to purchase a pair of plain ones. I want the holes for the breathers for my puke tank. Got any laying around?

I don't keep any of the plain ones, but may be able to get them quicker than the CNC engraved ones.  They come with no holes, I drill each pair for the breathers myself.  I will check price and delivery time on some plain ones on Monday (Tues if they are closed for the holiday)

287
Engine Mechanical / Electrical / Re: procomp elec fabricated valve covers...
« on: February 19, 2011, 06:25:11 PM »
Quote from: NORDIC454 on February 19, 2011, 08:28:28 AM


That's too bad, I would buy a pair in a heartbeat.

Thanks, I would be happy to supply them plain, no engraving, or can even get custom engraving for you, but he does get some kind of setup charge.

288
Engine Mechanical / Electrical / Re: Broken Valve
« on: February 18, 2011, 02:54:57 PM »
Quote from: Brad @ SCJB on February 18, 2011, 01:21:38 PM
no idea what kinda valves they were....but they are were 990 heads.

Are both of them wrecked?  I may have a single here. 

Marine engines get run harder than "street" engines, and exhaust valve failure is pretty common in a boat engine.  I have a collection of damaged heads that I need to let the scrap guy pickup.

289
Engine Mechanical / Electrical / Re: Broken Valve
« on: February 18, 2011, 01:14:23 PM »
More than likely the exhaust valve failed first, very typical problem in marine engines.  Any idea what they were? 

I always suggest at least severe duty exhaust valves on NA engines, and extreme duty for forced induction engines due to the extra abuse.

290
Engine Mechanical / Electrical / Re: Need cam help
« on: February 18, 2011, 01:10:07 PM »
I deal with a local cam grinder who does all of my camshafts.  I can supply with either a new cam, or a regrind if you have a roller core.  What kind of boost are you running at 17% over?  I guess you understand that you may have to cut the impeller down to run higher rpm and into a range that makes more power?  I have used some cams that are around 300 advertised duration,, just under .700" lift that are still reliable and easy on valve train,  but making good power.

291
Engine Mechanical / Electrical / Re: procomp elec fabricated valve covers...
« on: February 14, 2011, 11:47:51 PM »
I thought I posted a reply last night,, not sure if it got removed or why.  I had a photo of a pair of mine up.  I was not, and am not trying to sell my valve covers, I basically never sell them without being attached to an engine that I build.



I considered trying some of the Pro Comps, but after looking at them at their shop, found them to be substandard quality,, thin flange with rough edges, nothing to be put on a nice engine.

292
Engine Mechanical / Electrical / Re: 454 big block
« on: February 09, 2011, 10:33:50 PM »
Quote from: TrollerDave on February 09, 2011, 09:36:23 PM
Is it just the main bearings and piston to wall would have to be different for a jet boat motor? anything else?

What ways would you change piston to wall clearance? different diameter pistons, boring the cylinder or does it have to do with the rings?

Thanks


Both rod and main bearing clearance.  I did not mention ring gap, but that's true also, and will vary depending on the manufacture's specs and cylinder bore size.  For a typical recreational marine BBC I normally add .001"-.0015" to the bore size, which also should be determined by measuring pistons with a micrometer and then adding the manufacture's recommended cylinder to wall clearance, plus the extra for marine use. 

Note that if you were building a  forced induction engine, such as blower or turbo, you might even add a bit more. 

293
Engine Mechanical / Electrical / Re: 454 big block
« on: February 09, 2011, 08:11:10 PM »
Quote from: rush2112 on February 09, 2011, 02:04:07 PM
Hi,im new to this jet boat game..I would like some advice..Im looking for a gig block chev...I found some marine and some street......whats the deal...can i use a street motor without tearing it down replacing gaskets and some other things I was told...or just buy a used marine 4 my first motor to blow up......lol thanks   i run rivers and lakes on east coast no salt water..

As Kreg said the biggest difference is clearances.   I would normally use bearing clearances close to .003" on a big block, additional piston to wall clearance, since the block temperatures run cooler in a boat, and the pistons are usually going to be hotter from being run harder.  Since marine engines are typically run at double the RPM of a normal street engine (I run 80 MPH on the freeway at 2500 RPM), most engine builders would recommend forged pistons, rather than factory cast pistons.  Also, for the same reason, higher rpm range, you would normally run a larger duration camshaft.

One other big point would be to make sure to use a marine oil pan, partially due to rpm range, but also all the bouncing around a boat does, it's important to keep oil around the oil pump pickup.

You can drop a used street engine in the boat, but chances are it won't last real long, whereas a properly built and installed engine should last a long time.

294
Engine Mechanical / Electrical / Re: i want to be blown
« on: February 07, 2011, 01:41:51 AM »
Quote from: pure ndn on February 06, 2011, 09:06:21 PM
ok i have a 420 mega blower gonna put it in a elimanator day cruzer it has a 396 in it now whats the best route on the bottom end? dont want to push rods out the bottom and kill the fishys the guy i got it from said with the pulley set up 6 or 8 pounds of boost will a stock bottom end die idk never played with a blower before any info would be appreciated thanks guys

I have been talking to a guy who has a 402 BBC asking similar questions.  I told him that the first logical step was to see what components were in his engine,, cast or forged crank,, 2 or 4 bolt mains,, and small 3/8" bolt factory rods or something better. 

It may make more sense to start with a 454 block if the 396 parts are not the "good stuff".  Depending on your budget and goals, you might even want to buy a stroker crank and do a 496 combination.  More cubic inches would require somewhat less boost than the smaller engine to make the same power.

With any engine project, it makes sense to take enough time to think through your power goals, intended usage (including RPM range) and type of fuel. 

I ran a 505 cubic inch engine in my Schiada, first with an 8-71 blower, and then I switched to a Gentry turbo kit after I broke the original (well used) Hank the Crank crankshaft.  I ran about 8 lbs of boost with AV gas with the blower setup, but changed to a maximum of 15 lbs of boost with the turbo engine, running primarily 110 octane racing gas.  The turbo engine ran 6 years of water ski racing as well as recreational river use with no issues until I finally sold the bolt less engine.  It was put together with all American parts, prior to the Chinese parts becoming so popular. 

The E85 fuel sounds interesting.  I have built one 496 turbo engine that has been running on it already, getting ready to assemble a 621 cubic inch all aluminum turbo engine for the same guy that will also run the E85 fuel. 

Back to your question, it makes sense to start with lower boost, make sure you have adequate fuel pressure and volume, and conservative timing,, I would say start with 30 degrees total timing, and don't exceed 32 degrees.  If the engine is assembled properly, and everything is set up correctly, there is no reason it can't be reliable and last a long time. 

That blower didn't come from a guy in Washington, did it?

295
Engine Mechanical / Electrical / Re: boring out
« on: February 05, 2011, 10:15:00 PM »
Some of the early blocks are supposed to be able to go to 4.375", which is .125" over stock.  The largest I have run is 4.350" in a truck block with the 4.250" crank it was 505 cubic inches.  I ran first an 8-71 blower on it, and later a Gentry turbo setup, up to 15 lbs boost, perhaps 1000 HP with no block issues.

To be safe, the block should be sonic checked for cylinder wall thickness I would think.  It's very common to go to .060" over stock (4.310").  Can't tell you exactly how many bores since there are some weird piston sizes made, maybe .020" ,  .040" and .070" , besides the "normal" .030" and .060", and then as I mentioned even .100 and .125" over

296
Engines / Engine Parts For Sale / Re: Looking for BBC rectangle port/open chamber heads
« on: September 15, 2010, 09:53:09 PM »
Quote from: gordyd4 on September 15, 2010, 06:23:45 PM
I don't know a lot about BBC engines, so bare with me.  What are 990 heads?

My block is an older 4 bolt main truck block with the two piece rear seal.

Gordy,,, the "990" is the GM casting number for the performance open chamber rectangular port heads.  They were later superseded by a "188" casting number that was supposed to be an improved casting with the same or similar flow characteristics. 

297
Engine Mechanical / Electrical / Re: BBC Diagnosis
« on: August 16, 2010, 06:43:28 PM »
Quote from: sportinwood on August 13, 2010, 06:40:17 PM
Makin a long story short...atleast attempt to:

Spent 6k+ (in april of this year) and had a 454 built after i grenaded the old one. Somehow after 5-7 river/elsinore trips I noticed my oil pressure dropping and i found myself adding 2 quarts on the spot. Put it on the trailer, had black exhaust/oil on the back of the boat and minor smoke out the oil fill cap at idle. Didnt notice any pinging or knocks, ripped the motor out and sent it back to where i had it built.

Stopped by his shop today, 2 pistons are toast and the other 6 have knicks and dings on the tops.
The crank, rods, cam, etc. are all ok according to him.

What he told me was my fuel lines (3/8") were too small and the fuel pump was big enough to keep up with motor. (kept it from the old motor which was a stock 454).

He also mentioned a possible vacuum leak near my carb.

I am far from a mechanic, but is it possible to cause all this damage by lack of fuel?



A number of questions come to mind.  What was the static compression supposed to be?  How much ignition timing (total timing) were you running?  What fuel were you running? 

I don't think the 3/8" fuel line would be the issue, I recently dynoed a 468 Chevy at 606 HP,, with a 3/8" line.  I am using 1/2 fuel line on the 632 cu in engine that I have ready to go on the dyno now.

I think I can see marks indicating a piston was hitting the cylinder head, but would not make such a statement based only on these photos.  The deck height, combined with gasket thickness would equal the "quench" that GT mentioned. 

It's possible a number of factors combined to cause the problem.   If the compression was marginally high, and you ran some bad or cheap gas,, or 87 octane instead of 91 octane,, combined with a vacuum leak, etc etc.

Years ago I build a 9.2-1 compression engine for a friend's Suburban.  His kids drove it to the river admittedly at 120 mph at times,, towing a trailer.  When the engine temp was showing to be too warm, they continued to run,, (backed it down to 100 or so).  They not only burned a couple of pistons, but the block and head got torched, like a fuel dragster,, about 1/4" material gone.  I knew it had been tuned on a reputable chassis dyno, but also suspect the boys bumped the timing up looking for more power. 

Boats (particularly jet boats) get run hard, often for extended time periods at higher rpm than you normally run a street engine.

298
Boat Racing / Re: A heat with Nick Valore CJ21 @ Long Beach 2010
« on: August 13, 2010, 04:10:57 PM »
I guess the NOS button that he was trying to hit on the steering wheel just wasn't quite enough to catch Harold.  Nick is an aggressive driver,, give him just a little bit more seat time!

299
Engines / Engine Parts For Sale / Re: Feeler: 454 BBC Gen VI Marine
« on: August 11, 2010, 08:22:09 PM »
Quote from: GeneralLee on August 10, 2010, 01:25:22 PM
Ok guys I purchased this engine a couple of weeks ago from a shop in huntington beach. According to the old man it was pulled out of a 21' open bow with a fresh rebuilt, only couple of trips since the rebuilt. Old man fired it up on the stand and I purchased it. When I ran the numbers it came back as Gen VI Marine. I even called the Chevy dealer and had them run the number and again it sure is a Marine Gen VI. According to them the bare block alone is 2800. I posted it on cl for sale and the best offer I got was 1500 for the block only the guy didn't care much for the heads. I really don't feel like selling the block alone.

I guess my question is, is 1500 a good offer and should I jump on it or should I ask for more or even better, is anyone on here interested???

Only reason for me wanting to sell it, its because its bone stock, never been bored or messed with only rebuilt about a year ago according to the old man. I have a opportunity to purchase a decent built 454 from a fellow member so there's no need for this motor.

When they said it was worth $2800,, did they happen to say anything about it being a 502?  The Gen 6 502 engines would demand more money than a 454. 

300
Boat Racing / Re: 2010 Long Beach Sprint Nationals
« on: August 10, 2010, 11:26:09 PM »
Quote from: FLATMVN on August 10, 2010, 10:05:04 AM
Here are some pics that I shot.




I got a feeling that you might not have shot a couple of those, especially the ones you are in!


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